Sisters of Battle (40K) Question

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Question for a story I'm writing.

How do the Sisters of Battle from Warhammer 40K get from planet to planet? Do they tag along with the Navy, does the Ecclessiarchy have dedicated ships or something like that?

Also, would a standard SoB stand a chance against a daemon prince (admittedly, the Sister is wielding a holy relic and the daemon is toying with her) in one-on-one combat?

[Black Admiral]

As far as I'm aware, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't possess warp-capable vessels of its own, so the Sororitas Militant generally travel between star systems on chartered merchantmen, Navy or Inquisitorial craft, possibly Astartes vessels in unusual circumstances. As for the second guess, it depends on the daemon prince.

[Ahriman238]

According to some of the BFG fluff, merchantmen still make up 90% of starship hulls. It's not like its at all hard to hire or comandeer one. The IG does it all the time to move their grunts around.

Could lead to some interesting dynamics, Sisters on the same ship as more secular and cynical Guardsmen. On a similar note, I can't really see Astartes giving Sisters a ride, except in the most dire of emergencies. Well... Maybe if they were Black Templar, but I still kind of doubt it.

As for the second question, relic-wielding Sister vs Daemon Prince? Stranger things have happened. Cain and Jurgen were able to take one down. And I'm still waiting for the day the Avatar of Khaine is swarmed and destroyed by Grots, just to finish the logical progression.

[Connor MacLeod]

As far as I'm aware, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't possess warp-capable vessels of its own, so the Sororitas Militant generally travel between star systems on chartered merchantmen, Navy or Inquisitorial craft, possibly Astartes vessels in unusual circumstances. As for the second guess, it depends on the daemon prince.

The Sisters may or may not, I vaguely remember they had a ship in on eof the sources. I know Frateris and/or Ecclesiarchy ships are mentioned several times in the Eisenhorn omnibus. And in some caes they charter craft.

I should note that there ARE cases of the Ecclesiarchy having craft. In the FFG material the Calixis sector clergy are siphoning off a good portion of the men, starships and other material that are supposed to be going into the Jericho REach Warp gate for their own purposes.. and thy've been doing so for years, if not decades.

[Simon_Jester]

As for the second question, relic-wielding Sister vs Daemon Prince? Stranger things have happened. Cain and Jurgen were able to take one down. And I'm still waiting for the day the Avatar of Khaine is swarmed and destroyed by Grots, just to finish the logical progression.

That was mostly Jurgen, whose psychic-nullifying abilities are really extreme. Blanks like him aren't as conspicuous as daemon princes, but they're probably about as rare.

Cain alone wouldn't have lasted a minute against Emeli.

[Elheru Aran]

I believe most of the Adepta Sororitas get rides when they're tagging along with Witch-Hunter inquisitors. Otherwise, yes, the Ecclesiarchy does have ships, the best known of which would be the pilgrim-vessels that voyage all over the galaxy towards Terra.

Standard Sister of Battle against Daemon Prince? *splat*. With a holy relic? Depends on the relic, the strength of the Sister's faith, and if her fellow sisters are currently filling the air in the general direction of the DP with large quantities of ammunition. The Emperor or St. Whatever might see fit to intervene (translation: she gets lucky).

In general the way I understand it is that the strength of line combatants in the Imperium goes thus...

Conscript or Planetary Defence Force trooper> Guardsman> Stormtroopers and maybe Adeptus Mechanicus Tech-Guard> Sororitas> AdMech Skitarii> Space Marines> Grey Knights> Adeptus Custodes. Grey Knights have issues with Daemon Princes... unless they're Kaldor Draigo, of course... so it stands to reason that Sororitas might get their armour-clad tushies kicked pretty severely for the most part.

[edaw1982]

Are the Sisters (or atleast the one with the powered armour) smarter about fighting than the Space Marines; rather than engaging in stand-up-attrition?

[Serafina]

Unlike Space Marines, the Sisters are not an all-round army. They are specialists at close-up ranged attacks - bolters, flamers and meltas. So basically, they are assault specialists without resorting to hand-to-hand combat.
They lack specialized close-combat troops - except for the Repentias, who are pretty much death-seekers anyway. They also lack any specialized infiltrators and generally do not use camouflage.

However, unlike Space Marines, Sororitas also tend to operate along other troops, mostly the Imperial Guard. They don't really launch larger campaigns on their own.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Question for a story I'm writing.

How do the Sisters of Battle from Warhammer 40K get from planet to planet? Do they tag along with the Navy, does the Ecclessiarchy have dedicated ships or something like that?

Also, would a standard SoB stand a chance against a daemon prince (admittedly, the Sister is wielding a holy relic and the daemon is toying with her) in one-on-one combat?

I think the Sisters mostly travel on Navy craft or hired ships. However, there are canon examples of Ministorum ships, even an SOB-dedicated shrine ship in one of the Battle Fleet Gothic pdfs.

As for combat with a daemon... it depends on the daemon and the Sister. Some Sisters are practically living saints, capable of feats so heroic they create religious awe. Others are basically power-armored noobs.

[Simon_Jester]

EDIT: Question: If you want her to win, why does it have to be a full-up daemon prince? Daemons come in all sizes and shapes, after all.

Are the Sisters (or atleast the one with the powered armour) smarter about fighting than the Space Marines; rather than engaging in stand-up-attrition?

Probably not. Space Marines, if you read the books that depict their tactics rather than just assuming the heroic murals are accurate, are pretty smart- if they charge enemies it's usually because they know perfectly well said enemies are short on weapons which can actually harm them effectively. Space Marines have technological superiority over the great majority of things they fight; while "Marine-equivalent" armies are not uncommon on the tabletop, they're much rarer opponents than the hordes of orks, random aliens, or traitor humans that Marines slaughter their way through on a regular basis.

[Darksider]

Not all marines are equal though. The Ultras are pretty good at using sound tactics, though their rigid devotion to the codex leaves little room for improvisation or experimentation. I'm sure there are some chapters who are just as fanatical and flamer-happy as the SOB. Don't the Blood Angels basically just charge into melee and win via authorial fiat?

As for if a SOB can take a Daemon Prince, I suppose it's possible with earlier versions of the fluff, but doesn't the most recent stuff by that Matt Ward guy have them dying horribly against pretty much everybody?

[Simon_Jester]

I think the problem is that the Sisters have gotten used as stand-ins for every occasion where they need someone theoretically tough to be easily destroyed to show off how powerful an enemy is.

TVTropes would call it the Worf Effect, I guess.

[Ahriman238]

I think the problem is that the Sisters have gotten used as stand-ins for every occasion where they need someone theoretically tough to be easily destroyed to show off how powerful an enemy is.

TVTropes would call it the Worf Effect, I guess.

No, i'm pretty sure that's the Avatar. But you know what would probably do wonders for their mortality rate? Helmets.

Not all marines are equal though. The Ultras are pretty good at using sound tactics, though their rigid devotion to the codex leaves little room for improvisation or experimentation. I'm sure there are some chapters who are just as fanatical and flamer-happy as the SOB. Don't the Blood Angels basically just charge into melee and win via authorial fiat?

As for if a SOB can take a Daemon Prince, I suppose it's possible with earlier versions of the fluff, but doesn't the most recent stuff by that Matt Ward guy have them dying horribly against pretty much everybody?

Don't forget the "recon and planning are for the weak of faith!" Black Templar. Who'd probably get along famously with the Sisters.

As for the second question, relic-wielding Sister vs Daemon Prince? Stranger things have happened. Cain and Jurgen were able to take one down. And I'm still waiting for the day the Avatar of Khaine is swarmed and destroyed by Grots, just to finish the logical progression.

That was mostly Jurgen, whose psychic-nullifying abilities are really extreme. Blanks like him aren't as conspicuous as daemon princes, but they're probably about as rare.

Cain alone wouldn't have lasted a minute against Emeli.

True, but depending on the specific relic she has, that may be as good or better than Jurgen. Though wheter it's as good as Jurgen + Melta...

[Simon_Jester]

No, i'm pretty sure that's the Avatar. But you know what would probably do wonders for their mortality rate? Helmets.

The Avatar of Khaine is used for extreme cases- the big, menacing stuff that needs to be shown off.

Sisters of Battle... well, maybe I'm getting a biased impression from the Caiaphas Cain novels, where they're used on multiple occasions in that respect.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

As for if a SOB can take a Daemon Prince, I suppose it's possible with earlier versions of the fluff, but doesn't the most recent stuff by that Matt Ward guy have them dying horribly against pretty much everybody?

That is the result of a deviant sexual pathos and should not under any circumstances be regarded as proper 40K.

A powerful Sister could probably take a daemon prince, though as Black Admiral said, it depends on the daemon. Daemon princes vary wildly. Allegiance might matter too, because it affects how the daemon thinks and fights (e.g., a Nurgle daemon will be damn near invulnerable, a Tzeentchian daemon may very well "lose" but come out ahead anyway, and so on). Of particular interest is a lot of the stuff from Blood of Martyrs (FFG), which details a lot of the faith-based capabilities of Sororitas in greater detail than Codex: Witchhunters. Of note are things like being completely impossible to kill until the battle ends, miraculously surviving certain death unscathed, annihilating the daemonic and corrupt in one massive storm of the Emperor's wrath, and other such high-end goodies.

In fact, I would argue that Sisters (and other such fanatically faithful groups) operate much like Orks do -- unconsciously manifesting gestalt psychic effects through mass belief (that is what the Warp is, after all).

[Uraniun235]

That is the result of a deviant sexual pathos

Holy shit

[Darksider]

The Avatar of Khaine is used for extreme cases- the big, menacing stuff that needs to be shown off.

Or when Ward needs to wank up the scions of his "spiritual liege."

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

EDIT: Question: If you want her to win, why does it have to be a full-up daemon prince? Daemons come in all sizes and shapes, after all.

As far as I'm aware, DPs are the only Daemons that were once humans (this is a plot point in the story).

[Simon_Jester]

I'd say bending that rule, with a relatively weaker daemon that was once human, might actually be a better idea than formally stating "yes, she killed a daemon prince."

The former, at most, would violate a somewhat obscure rule which is totally irrelevant if this isn't for publication and unlikely to be an issue if it is. The latter would tend quite a bit too heavily to make claims of weakness for a daemon prince.

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

I'd say bending that rule, with a relatively weaker daemon that was once human, might actually be a better idea than formally stating "yes, she killed a daemon prince."

The former, at most, would violate a somewhat obscure rule which is totally irrelevant if this isn't for publication and unlikely to be an issue if it is. The latter would tend quite a bit too heavily to make claims of weakness for a daemon prince.

That it shall be then - a Herald seems to fit with what I was going for anyway.

As a note, I do plan to get the thing published.

[PainRack]

The Blood Angels aren't that crazy. They suffer merely from the Red Thirst, which does cause them to violate strategy at times, but Dante and etc has repeatedly shown that they do fight in a coordinated strategy and plan.

The Sisters of Battle on the other hand...... as others has said, they lack the supporting elements that any other army does.

Even if they do have a sound tactical doctrine and strategy , they don't have the elements to actually use them. The IG aren't subordinated to them and the Frateris Templar/militia also aren't a full combined arms team either. The only time they can count on having the full array is when they're part of the Witch-Hunter armies.

[Sharp-kun]

Are the Sisters (or atleast the one with the powered armour) smarter about fighting than the Space Marines; rather than engaging in stand-up-attrition?

I believe it was Ciaphas Cain who reqarded them as nuisances on the battlefield with their zealotry, and thought it best to point in a random direction and yell "HERETIC" to get rid of them.

[PainRack]

Oh god, look, I love the Cain books best out of all the Guard books out there, but the series is simply NOT an authorative aspect of the Wh40k universe.

May I remind everyone that the series confuses the two roles of the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus, by using the Hereticus as an authority on warp powers(vis a vis the Weirdboy attack that stranded Cain on Perlis) and the Malleus as an authority on mutation in the general populace(same book in footnotes.)


Not to mention the whole kind and caring comissar bit? Its simply amazing how the author, who explictly stated that Cain was constructed to be the antithesis of a typical comissar(but who turns out to be the unwilling hero etc) is now assumed by WH40k fans to be the "typical" surviving comissar. This even though all the RPGs and fluff explictly describes the ruthless comissar to be the typical mold.

Similarly, there's actually nothing to suggest that the Sisters of Battle are as tactically ignoramus as depicted by Cain bias. However, their configuration and role DOES mean that they're fundamentally not suited to total war. This is obviously one of the restraints left over by the post Age of Apotasy. The Sister of Battle are the temporal power of the Imperial Cult, they guard the pilgrim ships and holy sites, they provide a standing force for the Ordos Hereticus and they "fight" the church wars by providing the only professional, standing body of troops the church has.

The description of their actions in Codex Witch Hunters show just how limited their tactical roles are but also how effective they COULD be. The Order of the Bloody Rose liberated a hundred planets with just one thousand warriors.

[OmegaChief]

To be fair, the Cain books are written very much as the characters own personal opinions on things and should be acknoledged as such pefore you take thier word on anything.

As to the kind and caring commissar part, it's telling that both the major fictional Commissars, Gaunt and Cain are both presented as caring a lot of thier men and rarley ever executing anyone.

This is mainly because a one note sterotype who angrly growls at people and shoots them if they're not perfect doesn't make a very compelling central character for a story.

Of course that said from the Cain novels themselves we see a whole host of differnt types of Commissars as the novels go on, from the sterotype, through to Cain and even the poor dispicible Commissar from The Traitors Hand who tried so hard to trip Cain up and get some glory for himself.

Heck the second Commissar assigned to the Tanith First wasn't exactly the sterotype either, or at least wasn't after character development :p.

As for the Sisters themselves, what we do see of them in the Cain novels, while he disagrees with thier motivation and blind fantacism they are noted as being rather effective none the less, including driving back the Tyranids and the Novices in Cains Last Stand being pretty neat too.

[Mr. Coffee]

How do the Sisters of Battle from Warhammer 40K get from planet to planet?

It's pretty simple really. See, when ever the Sisters feel the need to go out and kill something they start off by going down the the local space port where they take control of all the stripclubs in the Emperor's name. Then they spend several weeks shaking the Emperor's little money maker until they've had enough twenty throne notes shoved into their undies to be able to afford to book passage to where ever it is they need to go.