Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Majin Gojira »

Stupid Non-Spoiler-y things I enjoyed from it.

But I'll put them under spoilers just to be safe:
Spoiler
1) The Corner Hounds being the Hounds of Tindalos and H.P. Lovecraft's history in the Dresden-verse being confirmed as "Agent of Venatori Umbrorum agent who was kicked out for giving info to the Thule society" and may have been killed by magical means rather than cancer.

2) "That'll Put Marzipan In Your Pie Plate Bingo!" - The most obscure Buffy reference I've seen.
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Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

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Re: Jim Butcher has finally finished Peace Talks (Dresden Files). Release date coming soon.

Post by Vendetta »

Blatant speculation:
Spoiler
MacAnally is her husband Cian mac Cáinte. One of the various corruptions of his name down the line is Mac Cinnfhaelaidh, which would romanise into Mac Kineely.
Edited, so your spoiler will show
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Vendetta,

The problem with your speculation, is that person is listed in the myths as DEAD.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Majin Gojira »

Well, that, and Cold Days made it pretty clear that he's
Spoiler
a member of the Grigori or Watchers, an Angel who is absolutely neutral.
Which is why his beer is 'heavenly.'


EDIT: Spoiler Tag does not work when you've quoted someone. Edited to fix it so the Spoiler Tag will work. --LadyTevar
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
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Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

I'm not familiar with the character you're talking about, but in-setting the Dresden Files mythology is a telephone game at best and Butcher will freely make up new twists or changes.

Spoiler
Just look at that stuff about Bigfoot and Grendel coming from the same people, or a creature from Irish mythology being a Greek-style Titan. Or his take on Hades and Persephone
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Majin Gojira wrote: 2020-07-18 12:03pm Well, that, and Cold Days made it pretty clear that he's
I'd have to re-read Cold Days, I didn't get that same read off him.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Ralin wrote: 2020-07-18 12:04pm I'm not familiar with the character you're talking about, but in-setting the Dresden Files mythology is a telephone game at best and Butcher will freely make up new twists or changes.
The twist you mention is a popular new take on the story/myth of those particular Gods.

As for the others you mention, why wouldn't different groups of hominoids become visibly and culturally distinct, while still remaining the same species? Humans spread out and adapted to our local habitation. Humans also took names for our specific tribes, so why wouldn't Non-Humans do the same?
How different is a Irishman from a man from Zaire? Between a Han Chinese and a Navaho native? So why wouldn't other Hominoids change when they moved far enough apart to no longer interact with the 'base' population? And who says the 'base' population didn't change in their own ways?

So, going by the example of our own human species, why couldn't Grendel be a Sasquatch from a different evolutionary branch?
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

I was more getting at the idea that mythology saying that what's his name is dead doesn't mean the same is true in the Dresden world's history.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Vendetta »

quote="Majin Gojira" -Well, that, and Cold Days made it pretty clear that he's

Spoiler
Not so sure about that. Sharkface calls him "watcher", but Mac has previously said that he's "out", as in he quit a previous role. (Cold Days is also a book which deals with the possibility of a mantle being removed). Death of a mythological entity need not be literal.

Mac is a neutral observer now, but he wasn't always.

(Also in support, Cian is nicknamed "Scal Balb", which means "dumb champion", dumb in the sense of being incapable of speech. Mac speaks less than basically anyone else.)
quote="LadyTevar" -So, going by the example of our own human species, why couldn't Grendel be a Sasquatch from a different evolutionary branch?

Not even a different evolutionary branch, just a different philosophy. We don't know how long the Forest People live, but Grendel might not be that many generations back for them if they're significantly longer lived than humans.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

Speaking of which,
Spoiler
Blood On His Soul still being alive does bring up some questions, especially given that bit about him considering himself the Genoskwa paragon.
I wonder if his apparent immortality represents something similar to the mantles that we know offer the same thing?

Also, I liked the bit where Harry was genuinely curious to find out if Molly could step through a summoning circle.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Ralin
Actually it could be because Spoiler
He's still got his coin?
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Vendetta wrote: 2020-07-20 10:08am Not even a different evolutionary branch, just a different philosophy. We don't know how long the Forest People live, but Grendel might not be that many generations back for them if they're significantly longer lived than humans.
Didn't he call Listen-to-Winds someone he knew as a youngster? And Listens is 300 or thereabouts?
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Lost Soal »

The starborn. Spoiler
Yes it probably means everyone born under that conjunction, but since the starborn abilities are all linked to magic the "vanilla" starborn don't really matter. Not going instantly insane when in mental conflict is great, but since you likely won't know what to do, your still fucked.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

Known abilities.

Spoiler
Bear in mind that vanilla mortals can do ritual magic. Including banishment rituals. Butters has shown that someone with absolutely no innate magical talent can do things like enchant items if guided by someone with the appropriate knowledge.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Lost Soal »

Ralin wrote: 2020-07-22 07:50pm Known abilities.

Spoiler
Bear in mind that vanilla mortals can do ritual magic. Including banishment rituals. Butters has shown that someone with absolutely no innate magical talent can do things like enchant items if guided by someone with the appropriate knowledge.
He could build them but couldn't power them. He had to have Bob with him to use anything.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Lost Soal wrote: 2020-07-23 02:17am
Ralin wrote: 2020-07-22 07:50pm Known abilities.

Spoiler
Bear in mind that vanilla mortals can do ritual magic. Including banishment rituals. Butters has shown that someone with absolutely no innate magical talent can do things like enchant items if guided by someone with the appropriate knowledge.
He could build them but couldn't power them. He had to have Bob with him to use anything.
But that meant he could make useful potions ahead of time and have them handy when needed.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by LadyTevar »

Oh YEAH! About Butters!
Spoiler
Well, his life's certainly improved. Two wolves as mates and a Bearer of the Sword.
Even if it's the "Safety Sword". I'm betting the difference between Monster/Evildoer and Innocent Humanoid will be looked into next book. Also, really betting Dresden's going to find the new Bearer for the 3rd Sword next book.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Lost Soal »

LadyTevar wrote: 2020-07-23 05:33pm
Lost Soal wrote: 2020-07-23 02:17am
Ralin wrote: 2020-07-22 07:50pm Known abilities.

Spoiler
Bear in mind that vanilla mortals can do ritual magic. Including banishment rituals. Butters has shown that someone with absolutely no innate magical talent can do things like enchant items if guided by someone with the appropriate knowledge.
He could build them but couldn't power them. He had to have Bob with him to use anything.
But that meant he could make useful potions ahead of time and have them handy when needed.
You don't need to be starborn to do chemistry, and since your magical ability has no effect on chemistry, it doesn't matter if your starborn, thus you still need magic for it to matter.
I say this because the best "potion"to be developed for combating outsiders appears to be a Molotov cocktail, which is evidently not something you just carry around on the off chance an outsider materialises.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

Spoiler
I had thought the speculation about Thomas ending up wielding Amoracchius was pretty unlikely at this point, but, well...he is in stasis on Demonreach with it now...
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Re: Jim Butcher has finally finished Peace Talks (Dresden Files). Release date coming soon.

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Re Starborn :
Removed the quote from me so your spoiler will show. REMEMBER: Quote + Spoiler means Spoiler don't Work --Lady T Spoiler
There' no reason not to assume that the starborn thing only applies to Wizards (+- maybe "Gifted" (i.e half fey/half/quarter/eighth anything that isn't human).
Given the incredibly low number of wizards, even counting low grades like the Paranet, that leaves a very small pool of candidates
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

My thought, and massive spoilers for peace talks :
PS - I really liked it, can't wait for the next.

I liked it, but I was REALLY bothered by a number of very egregious cases of Harry doing/not doing things purely out of plot dictates. I was expecting a reveal along the lines of mind control (as was the case with the Denarian in previous books), just to explain all the plot induced stupid.
I get that Butcher did it to force the plot along with certain themes and to preserve certain scenes, but it was incredibly forced.
Most obvious ones are:
Spoiler
1. Harry not telling Ebenezer/Blackstaff about Thomas being his brother. His arguments for why not to do it are not anywhere near enough to justify it in the given circumstances, especially with the council. Harry apparently would rather have the white council and senior wardens think he was a thrall (i.e having sex) of the queen of the White court, rather than tell only his grandfather about why he trusted Thomas. NVM the scene at the end, where the fight would have been avoided if he'd said it at the beginning rather than end.
It's just stupid, and probably forced that way since Butcher wanted the cool fight scene between Blackstaff & pupil, (which i'd guess he plotted out beforehand), then had to justify it.
2. Harry and the wardens interrogation:
Seriously? He'd rather not say "I had sex with my girlfriend, (who some of you have met, and is well regarded by Odin and the community)", instead going with "Well, now that you know that I had sex, recently, after a private meeting with the queen of the sex-vampires - I refuse to let you know who it was with, and I won't tell you verbally either. I also won't even say that it was with a mortal, preferring to storm out, in a ridicolously guilty fashion".
3. The complete lack of ANY attempt to question Thomas.
It's reasonable that the svartelves would not care much about Thomas's motivations, and would either assume him to be lying, but more so, would not care about his motivations, only what he did.
BUT - there's nothing involving Harry trying to do some proper detective work, in terms of asking Thomas, or saying to the Svartelves - "Hey, given that we both agree this makes little sense, (regardless of the untrustworthy denials of guilt by Lara Raith), can I ask him why he did this? You can be in the room with me to watch, and I can also check if his mind has been tampered with".
There's essentially 0 conversations between Harry and Thomas after that point. No doubt Butcher wanted it left in for the next book, but still, the complete lack of any such attempt to question him or check for tampering is glaring.
4. The bit with Thomas and Lara & the Einhjar at the end - also kinda forced. Just shouting "Wait, I didn't kill/hurt him", would have been a lot faster than the rest of the scene, and again, there's no reason for him not to say that immediately, especially after he stopped Lara in place.
5. The whole "I don't have any time to rebuild my magic gear" is getting a bit silly as a cop-out for why he has less equipment. He's had years at this point, with far more experience and resources. If he managed to make them during the original books, while training or working as a private detective full time, then reconstructing them over 2 years+ should be relatively simple. It's just a little annoying. (I assume butcher didn't want so many tools/resources available for Harry after all his "upgrades". But still...).
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

Spoiler
1. No, he was pretty much right to not tell McCoy about that. He was realizing that McCoy didn't just hate the White Court, he considers them subhuman and hates them with a psychotic passion that puts Harry's feelings towards ghouls to shame. There is no way that McCoy learning that Lord Raith impregnated and likely raped his daughter would have improved the situation. None.


2. It was a pretty damned invasive thing to be questioning him about, and they kept exactly what the spell would detect for a secret until after the fact. Harry was reacting out of anger. He's known to do that. Most people would be inclined to tell Ramirez to go fuck himself under the circumstances.

3. Eh. Possibly. But bear in mind that this was a really tense situation and he had reason to think the svartelves were on the verge of erupting into homicidal violence, with his daughter in the building. Asking to examine or question Thomas would have been a good measure to take, but the svartelves would have been extremely suspicious about that sort of thing and prone to distrust anything he said. They saw Thomas do it. And radical mind control like that generally leaves all sorts of obvious signs in this setting, especially when it's done overnight.

4. Lara was furious and wasn't willing to listen until she had to. When Lara decides to kill someone she doesn't stop and reconsider midway through, same as Nicodemus. Ditto for the einhjar. Yeah maybe she'd be reasonable and listen, but that's not something Harry wants to test with Murphy as a hostage. Smack her down, then reason with her.

5. He's been back from spooky island for what, half a year? And adapting to being a parent during that time. Which by all accounts takes up an amazing amount of time.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Mr Bean »

Finished the book
Spoiler
I agree there's lots of Harry just fucking SAY something in the book that annoyed me. Also if Thomas Demon is turning on him isn't it just a matter of umm... providing him with a basketball team of partners to spread out the feed damage? Or since they feed from spirit/soul getting a very spirit heavy individual to feed off of?

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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Ralin »

Spoiler
Remember when Thomas nearly crippled Justine in Blood Rites and Lara considered it a borderline impossible feat that he didn't kill her? This is like that, only worse. He's fucked up at least as much as what the skinwalker did to him. If he starts feeding (as opposed to the mama bird thing Lara was apparently doing?) he's not going to be able to stop.

Possibly worse. I got the impression Lara thought he was fucked up beyond the point where he's capable of recovering even if he does feed.
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Re: Jim Butcher Peace Talks (Dresden Files) NOW WITH SPOILER ALERT!

Post by Mr Bean »

quote=Ralin post_id=4104983 time=1595619550 user_id=12716] Spoiler
Remember when Thomas nearly crippled Justine in Blood Rites and Lara considered it a borderline impossible feat that he didn't kill her? This is like that, only worse. He's fucked up at least as much as what the skinwalker did to him. If he starts feeding (as opposed to the mama bird thing Lara was apparently doing?) he's not going to be able to stop.

Possibly worse. I got the impression Lara thought he was fucked up beyond the point where he's capable of recovering even if he does feed.

To re-explain
Spoiler
He eats people, he needs to eat people to heal, so if he eats more than 1 person at a time he may not kill them. I know I may be recommending as Thomas Doctor that he engage in a minimum nine person orgy but I believe it's medically necessary.
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