So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Eframepilot »

Batman wrote:What, exactly, is the point of keeping her, then? Despite the dance they've done since Crisis of Infinite Earths, she's effectively Earth Two Kara, and always has been. Hell Team Timm probably gave her a better origin than the post-Crisis writers did.
There are two reasons that Power Girl is kept around as a character. Two large, prominent reasons.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

Batman wrote:
Justice wrote:
Babs is officially back as Batgirl (so much for the Bat books coming through unscathed-it's not like you're throwing out some 20+ years of established history or something with that, DC)
They didn't throw it out. She was Oracle, and she was paralyzed. She simply no longer is... for reasons not adequately explained. Of course, it's not like you yourself didn't come back from a back injury under sketchy circumstances. :wink:
They most certainly did. As per the new Batgirl#1, the timeframe between her being shot by the Joker (not her recovering, not her becoming Oracle, but her being shot) and her being Batgirling again was three years, including several months in which she would panic at the sound of the doorbell (as per her own thoughts). When she was Batgirl to see two Robins on the job and Oracle for the other three. Unless they moved The Killing Joke up to where Tim got the job that's a tad hard to reconcile with established history, which the Bat books allegedly are trying to keep.
Is it that hard for the Killing Joke to move up? Yes, thing will have to shift... but then again, for the most part they are not going to refer to most previous events outside of the big ones like Knightfall, the Death of Superman, and a few GL things. While it still might all be in there, the specifics aren't going to matter in the big scheme of things. It's like Lex Luthor still being in the body of a clone who was supposed to be his son: it could still be in continuity, but it's almost never referred to.
What, exactly, is the point of keeping her, then? Despite the dance they've done since Crisis of Infinite Earths, she's effectively Earth Two Kara, and always has been. Hell Team Timm probably gave her a better origin than the post-Crisis writers did.
She'll likely be in the Earth-2 book leading the Justice Society anyways, so I'm not too worried about her. Sad, though, as her series was generally pretty fun.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Havok »

18-Till-I-Die wrote: So is the new Teen Titans which looks like "Teen Titans: As Imagined by Rob Liefield in 1991" which, as I said, I approve of.

OH and Rob Liefield is back! He escaped from "angry internet comic nerd hate-magnet" prison again and hopefully will evade the sweaty, nerdy authorities for a while longer this time.
:lol:

:?

:|

:evil:

Gawd, I want to punch you in the face right now.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Havok »

Superboy wrote:The preview for the new Action Comics has been released.

It's hard to read some of the smaller text, but basically Superman is a badass now.
That is horrible. Dialogue, design and what little story/context wise I could discern.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Havok »

Stark wrote:Well, Morrison is a capable writer, so let's see how that goes.
I see what you did there.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by ComradeClaus »

Hmm, that superman reminds me a bit of that clone superman created by Lex Luthor for that animated movie. (I can't remember the title, but supes fights a superalien that 'kills' him, while Luthor controls a clone until the clone removes the kryptonite implant controlling him & beats luthor half to death & basically acts badass. He also kills Toyman)

Speaking of which, Luthor in this reboot BETTER have hair! It was a fluke that made him bald in the first place!

Anyways, I don't follow comics much outside SuperDickery & Cracked. That new Action Comics was what, $3.99 for like 30 pages?
I can buy a 200 page manga for about 10 bucks & never have to worry about retooling. Just 1 author & 1 art team & (about 10-20 years of storytelling later) that's it.

But they both suffer from "Refrigerators Syndrome" though.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Molyneux »

JME2 wrote:
Molyneux wrote:I have only one question:
Where the hell is Power Girl?
I believe Karren Starr will be a supporting character in Mr. Terrific, but she will no longer be Power Girl.
God damn it. What happened to the JSA, then?
For that matter, what the hell happens with Terra and her whole civilization? Are they just cutting them out of the comics entirely?
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

ComradeClaus wrote:Hmm, that superman reminds me a bit of that clone superman created by Lex Luthor for that animated movie. (I can't remember the title, but supes fights a superalien that 'kills' him, while Luthor controls a clone until the clone removes the kryptonite implant controlling him & beats luthor half to death & basically acts badass. He also kills Toyman)

Speaking of which, Luthor in this reboot BETTER have hair! It was a fluke that made him bald in the first place!
His iconic look is bald, though. In Action Comics, he's still bald.
Anyways, I don't follow comics much outside SuperDickery & Cracked. That new Action Comics was what, $3.99 for like 30 pages?
I can buy a 200 page manga for about 10 bucks & never have to worry about retooling. Just 1 author & 1 art team & (about 10-20 years of storytelling later) that's it.
True, though you'll also have to buy the 30 volumes between the beginning and where the manga is at, if we are talking some of the bigger on-goings. It's a helluva lot easier to drop in and out of comics. They're cheaper, but you do need everything. Also, if we are counting volumes, Trade Paperbacks are a little more pricey, but you are getting similar value.
But they both suffer from "Refrigerators Syndrome" though.
Is this "Women in Fridges" Syndrome...?
Molyneux wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Molyneux wrote:I have only one question:
Where the hell is Power Girl?
I believe Karren Starr will be a supporting character in Mr. Terrific, but she will no longer be Power Girl.
God damn it. What happened to the JSA, then?
For that matter, what the hell happens with Terra and her whole civilization? Are they just cutting them out of the comics entirely?
There is a new JSA series coming out written by James Robinson and drawn by Nicola Scott. It'll be on Earth-2, just like in the Silver Age, so you'll likely see Power Girl there. As for the Mr. Terrific comic, we have no clue whether she'll have her powers or not, even if she is in the comic.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

ComradeClaus wrote:Hmm, that superman reminds me a bit of that clone superman created by Lex Luthor for that animated movie. (I can't remember the title, but supes fights a superalien that 'kills' him, while Luthor controls a clone until the clone removes the kryptonite implant controlling him & beats luthor half to death & basically acts badass. He also kills Toyman)
That'd be Superman:Doomsday, which unsurprisingly retells the Death/Return of Superman storyline from the comics.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by VF5SS »

The DC Comics New Reader Litmus Test

Kind of a fun read. I'm starting to think comic book creators have forgotten how to appeal to a general audience.

I must admit the only comics I read with any regularity were the Marvel Transformers comics :3

I also read all the Tales of Suspense stuff for Iron Man. Those were graet.
True, though you'll also have to buy the 30 volumes between the beginning and where the manga is at, if we are talking some of the bigger on-goings. It's a helluva lot easier to drop in and out of comics. They're cheaper, but you do need everything. Also, if we are counting volumes, Trade Paperbacks are a little more pricey, but you are getting similar value.
Yeah but at least with manga you know where to start: volume 1. With comics I always feel like where do I start? Going by that article (which is a little tongue in cheek) even when they start over people are getting confused. Also manga is still cheaper in general.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

The problem superhero comics (and especially DC, and even more especially me and Cark comics) have is that we've been around for a freaking three quarters of a century. There's no way you're keeping continuity straight over that kind of time frame, especially not when you have to do it over half a hundred titles because it's all one big universe and pretty much everybody pops up in everybody else's titles from time to time. A reset every once in a while is pretty much something they have to do. Which isn't to say that DC is particularly good at actually doing it, about the latest redo they managed even halfway decently was Infinite Earths. It's still too early to judge the latest one, but Clark's duds and behaviour (um-guys? That's, like, something I would say) and the fact that Babs is back as Batgirl are not encouraging.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

VF5SS wrote:The DC Comics New Reader Litmus Test

Kind of a fun read. I'm starting to think comic book creators have forgotten how to appeal to a general audience.

I must admit the only comics I read with any regularity were the Marvel Transformers comics :3

I also read all the Tales of Suspense stuff for Iron Man. Those were graet.
The problem with the test is that you need people who are interested in the medium in some way, which none of those people particularly came off as. If you aren't interested in reading comic books, few comic books are likely to impress them.
Yeah but at least with manga you know where to start: volume 1. With comics I always feel like where do I start? Going by that article (which is a little tongue in cheek) even when they start over people are getting confused. Also manga is still cheaper in general.
Eh... I don't think those people would find manga any less confusing. The people here seemed to want a lot more backstory, and there are plenty of mangas which are mum on specifics.

And where to start? Well, I started out by looking stuff up on the 'net. I got started back in 2005-06 during Infinite Crisis, which was a horrible place to start, but the internet was damn helpful in figuring out what I was missing... if I was missing anything at all. I'll admit it's really nice to know where to start: I started One Piece last spring. However, the catch-up reading is daunting. :shock:
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

Daunting catch-up reading is starting on Sluggy Freelance from the word go. :D
And I thought the whole point of the test was to see how people who aren't familiar with the material react to the allegedly 'new reader friendly' approach. (To which if I were a new reader I couldn't help but ask, a)what the hell is a Green Lantern, b)who's Barbara Gordon and what's this about her having been shot by the Joker three years ago?)
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by VF5SS »

Justice wrote: The problem with the test is that you need people who are interested in the medium in some way, which none of those people particularly came off as. If you aren't interested in reading comic books, few comic books are likely to impress them.
Well I'm not sure I'd say these people aren't interested in the medium of comics since they did participate in this little study. What they may not be interested in is the genre of superheroes, but unlike manga, that's really all that dominates comics. While we can't tell from this small study, but if the DC reboot books are not appealing, or even comprehensible, to new readers not familiar with superhero comics then the reboot is failing at one part of its intended purpose. You need new readers who aren't predisposed to reading superhero comics in order to expand your market.

Eh... I don't think those people would find manga any less confusing. The people here seemed to want a lot more backstory, and there are plenty of mangas which are mum on specifics.
Yeah but those are the shitty ones. Besides, there's more out there than the endless Shonen series.
And where to start? Well, I started out by looking stuff up on the 'net.
So to get into comics you have to do your research on where to start? How does that help?
I started One Piece last spring. However, the catch-up reading is daunting. :shock:
Well that's your fault for not reading Hokuto No Ken instead :3
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

Batman wrote:Daunting catch-up reading is starting on Sluggy Freelance from the word go. :D
I've heard of that, but I've never gotten around to it. What am I looking at if I were to try?
And I thought the whole point of the test was to see how people who aren't familiar with the material react to the allegedly 'new reader friendly' approach. (To which if I were a new reader I couldn't help but ask, a)what the hell is a Green Lantern, b)who's Barbara Gordon and what's this about her having been shot by the Joker three years ago?)
I always thought it was to attract people who were already interested in such things. People who watched Justice League or Batman as a kid, or someone who may have played Arkham Asylum. I got into the characters through cartoons before making the jump. Look at the numbers Young Justice pulls in: DC would love to get even a 1/10 of those people interested.
VF5SS wrote: Well I'm not sure I'd say these people aren't interested in the medium of comics since they did participate in this little study. What they may not be interested in is the genre of superheroes, but unlike manga, that's really all that dominates comics.
People will participate in anything. This is America, after all. :D

I think the biggest problem I have is that it was 13 readers, 13 comics. Each person had only one. Why not let them pick a few? If you are going to give a study, why not get more opinions?
While we can't tell from this small study, but if the DC reboot books are not appealing, or even comprehensible, to new readers not familiar with superhero comics then the reboot is failing at one part of its intended purpose.
You'd be right, both ways: DC needed to clear things up to get new readers on-board. However, this little exercise doesn't really give us much other than the fact that out of 13 people, only 4 people liked the one book they were handed. :?
You need new readers who aren't predisposed to reading superhero comics in order to expand your market.
That's not true. The people they are looking for are the people who watch and enjoy the movies about superheroes, play games about superheroes, watch television shows about superheroes. You can't target everyone.
Yeah but those are the shitty ones. Besides, there's more out there than the endless Shonen series.
Yeah, but the problem is that the big thing over here is Shonen dominates the perception of manga as well as the charts. I'd argue it's pretty comparable.

And there are more comics out there than just superheroes. There are even comics within the new 52 which are meant to be in different markets: All-Star Western, Men of War, I, Vampire, among others. Hell, Swamp Thing and Animal Man are written more with horror in mind than super-heroics. :P
So to get into comics you have to do your research on where to start? How does that help?
Because finding a manga I might be interested in is that much more easier? It's as simple to google "What are good mangas?" as it is "Where do I start with Green Lantern Comics?". Are we assuming that "new readers" are just randomly picking up TPBs and Manga Collections, or are these people who have thought about it and actually looked into it? I mean, if you just pick up a random TPB and say "Wow, I really liked this", is it that hard to put in a question to google, or look up the next book on Amazon?
Well that's your fault for not reading Hokuto No Ken instead :3
Ah, everyone's a critic. :P
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

Justice wrote:
Batman wrote:Daunting catch-up reading is starting on Sluggy Freelance from the word go. :D
I've heard of that, but I've never gotten around to it. What am I looking at if I were to try?
You're looking at a mostly daily webcomic that started in 1997.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Bakustra »

So wait, they decided to make things more comprehensible to new readers by just throwing in all the stuff with the Green and the Red for Swamp Thing and Animal Man, they've decided to keep all sorts of stuff they really ought to have ditched (Identity Crisis, Death of Superman), and they've apparently not changed the Legion of Superheroes at all. Hahaha, comics are going to be so fucking dead within the next decade.

You know, back in the Silver Age, there was no formal continuity. There would occasionally be references to other stories, and there would be arcs and the like, but overall storytelling was genuinely episodic. I think that this is far more fitting for the superhero genre than the Soap Opera style that's been in vogue since the 1980s. After all, soaps had to change the cast up by necessity, and yet they are still essentially dead nowadays. Superheroes can remain the same for decades. I think that moving to a model that would make it easy for people to pick up stories and read them (and this would require a lot more changes than just this) would allow superhero comics to gain a little bit of life again. Granted, you'd have to deprogram all the fuckers who obsess over continuity and use it for determining what to buy, but that sounds like a job for a cadre of psych undergrads.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

Batman wrote:
Justice wrote:
Batman wrote:Daunting catch-up reading is starting on Sluggy Freelance from the word go. :D
I've heard of that, but I've never gotten around to it. What am I looking at if I were to try?
You're looking at a mostly daily webcomic that started in 1997.
So I should schedule a week or so of work off? :lol:

And sorry if I'm coming off as overly defensive on the issue, though that article kind of irked me when I read it earlier today.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

I don't think you quite grasp what 14 years worth of daily (mostly) webcomics means. Even assuming we're talking 200 days a year to take into consideration Sluggy currently being weekdays only (which it wasn't initially, that strip used to run Mon-Sun) that's 2800 strips to go through. Methinks somebody is being optimistic.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

Batman wrote:I don't think you quite grasp what 14 years worth of daily (mostly) webcomics means. Even assuming we're talking 200 days a year to take into consideration Sluggy currently being weekdays only (which it wasn't initially, that strip used to run Mon-Sun) that's 2800 strips to go through. Methinks somebody is being optimistic.
Methinks my laughing emoticon did not carry the weight it was intended to. :|
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

Batman. Officially no sense of humour :wink:
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Molyneux »

Batman wrote:I don't think you quite grasp what 14 years worth of daily (mostly) webcomics means. Even assuming we're talking 200 days a year to take into consideration Sluggy currently being weekdays only (which it wasn't initially, that strip used to run Mon-Sun) that's 2800 strips to go through. Methinks somebody is being optimistic.
So it's less like reading a book, and more like starting a new hobby? That reminds me, I really should get started on that once I'm up-to-date on Homestuck.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by JME2 »

Batman wrote:Batman. Officially no sense of humour :wink:
And when you do laugh...well, it ain't exactly funny. :wink: 8)
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

Come to think of it, I did laugh at Mr J's joke at the end of 'The Killing Joke'.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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