China in Middle Earth

[Gurgeh]

This has been something I have thought up and I was wondering about what would happen if the Han Dynasty from the Height of their power had all their land scooped up and placed in Middle Earth? This is not so much of a vs debate as of how people would react kind of debate. How would this scenario go down?
1. What would the People of Middle Earth think of chinese Culture, Music, Art, Architecture, Language?
2. How well would Chinese forces compare to armys of MIddle Earth at that time?
3.How well would they get along
4. What would the Chinese think of Middle Earth
5. The timeline of this is ither the Second Age of Middle Earth or the Third Age of Middle Earth I just have not thought of a good location of where they should be put.

[Ahriman238]

Well, the people's of the Far East in Middle Earth worship Morgoth and are allies of Sauron, though there is apparently some sort of resistance to their traditional culture going on. I suspect it will take some time for anyone to be able to understand each other.

The Han would probably not be pleased with orcs, I'm not sure about Elves. It's possible they may retreat into isolationism if they find the rest of the world not to their liking, it's a pattern that's happened before to China, though I don't think so during the Han.

[Gurgeh]

I decide to replace the Easternlings with China instead. I wonder what will the Elves think of the China if they wher added to middle earth? What would Lord Sauron do in this situation?

[Simon_Jester]

The elves would probably think "oh hey, more men, but they're not related to us or anything the way some of the men of Gondor are. Meh." Sauron would probably think "oh hey, more people to corrupt lemme at 'em!"

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I think the men of Gondor would wonder how an entire nation of orcs appeared on the map...

[Tritio]

1. What would the People of Middle Earth think of chinese Culture, Music, Art, Architecture, Language?
It depends on which people. The Chinese would appear to be very foreign to them all, even the men of Gondor and Rohan. Everyone gets shocked by their huge new neighbour. The Han Dynasty is huge compared to Middle Earth. The whole of Middle Earth could probably fit comfortably with lots of room to spare. Everyone says hello to the new superpower.

2. How well would Chinese forces compare to armys of MIddle Earth at that time?
I suppose they would have hugely superior numbers even over the Orcs, given that the Han population was over 50 million people. If they practiced conscription as per the Early Han Dynasty, then their militia would number in the hundreds of thousands.

3.How well would they get along
After some exposure, I think they would get along well with other Humans as well as the Dwarves and Elves. Not so well with the Orcs or Mordor. However, given that you've swapped them with the Easterlings, there will be some issue of distance to contend with. Sauron gets a heart attack after seeing his new neighbours.

4. What would the Chinese think of Middle Earth
They would be fascinated by the Elves, Dwarves and Orcs; not so impressed with Gondor or Rohan. Rohan would appear to be quite similar to the horsemen which they've been fighting all along their northern borders, but Gondor as a more city dwelling, agricultural society would be more similar to the Chinese. They would be impressed by Minas Tirith, the Two Towers, Moria, the Dwarven cities and the Elvish cities/forests.

The bigger question is of course how getting displaced would affect the Chinese government. Getting your whole country displaced and waking up with Orcs for neighbours would no doubt be a big shock to the Chinese. If strong centralised authority existed, then the Han can at least respond in a cohesive manner.

[The Romulan Republic]

Problem is Sauron doesn't nessissarily need to defeat them militarily. He could maybe try giving their Emperor a ring.

Also, there's little chance a Chinese conscript army could stand up to the Nazgul. Their fear effects successfully routed Rohirim and Gondorian forces on a regular basis.

[Gurgeh]

1. What would the People of Middle Earth think of chinese Culture, Music, Art, Architecture, Language?
It depends on which people. The Chinese would appear to be very foreign to them all, even the men of Gondor and Rohan. Everyone gets shocked by their huge new neighbour. The Han Dynasty is huge compared to Middle Earth. The whole of Middle Earth could probably fit comfortably with lots of room to spare. Everyone says hello to the new superpower.

So let's say for number 1. How will the Elves react to Chinese culture or etc? How will Gondor or Rohan think of them.
Would China be a threat to Mordor if they have gone to war with them if they where in the Second Age or Third Age? Also lets say Sauron can't corupt China. How will Sauron deal with them?

[The Romulan Republic]

Taking away Sauron's ability at corruption weakens him considerably.

I still think he can give China a nasty fight, though. Even if numbers are not in his favor (Tolkien never gives clear numbers on Sauron's forces that I am aware of), as I said I don't see Chinese conscripts standing up to the Nazgul. This is clearly described during the chapters on the Siege of Gondor and the Battle of the Pellenor Fields.

[Ahriman238]

The two Istari who are off forming a rebellion to overthrow the wicked Easterlings return to the main storyline and participate in the War of the Ring. Awesomeness ensues.

[Tritio]

Problem is Sauron doesn't nessissarily need to defeat them militarily. He could maybe try giving their Emperor a ring.

Also, there's little chance a Chinese conscript army could stand up to the Nazgul. Their fear effects successfully routed Rohirim and Gondorian forces on a regular basis.

Oh, good point. If Sauron managed to somehow communicate well enough to get his message across the language barrier, then what happens would depend on the Han Emperor and the court. However, note that there are structural and cultural obstacles against outside influences in the Han Court. The emperor is in an elevated position, is insulated from most of society, and the eunuchs are traditionally conservative. It is unlikely that an emmissary of Sauron or a gift from anyone outside will go unscrutinised. Additionally, the reputation of Sauron in the Third Age as forger and master of the Rings is known, if not among the common people, then at least among the nobility. Any of the other nations or peoples who speak to the Han about Mordor would probably mention that. Hence, extra caution would be taken.

The Nazgul have an advantage, that is true. However, I doubt that the Nine can make enough of a difference to win a war against the Han. They aren't invincible.

So let's say for number 1. How will the Elves react to Chinese culture or etc? How will Gondor or Rohan think of them.
Would China be a threat to Mordor if they have gone to war with them if they where in the Second Age or Third Age? Also lets say Sauron can't corupt China. How will Sauron deal with them?

The Elves? I'm sure that they would be very interested. Given the richness of Han Culture and the complexity of its society, the Elves would probably want to take a good close look at them to find out more about foreign concepts such as ancestor worship, Confucianism, Taoism, Palace Culture, Astrology etc. I can't think of anything in Han Culture which would be innately offensive to the Elves, so they'd probably be cautiously neutral with this new race of men.

Gondor and Rohan would probably want closer ties; they have a strategic interest in having an alliance with these new men, which will at least distract Mordor from focusing its attention on Gondor and Rohan. Remember that both of those nations were larger and more powerful at their height; and have been gradually pushed back by Mordor over the years. If Gondor and Rohan were pragmatic, they could provide very useful information to the Han about Mordor, informing the Han about it's evilness (not that it isn't obvious).

But again, the problem is distance. If you've substituted the Han with the Easterlings, then the Han are EAST of Mordor, whereas Gondor and Rohan are WEST of Mordor. How are they going to even meet up with each other? Going North of Mordor over the Iron Hills is going to take time, and there are people of Rhun there. Going South of Mordor over the sea would be faster, but there would be Umbar and Haradwaith to contend with, and are you giving the Han a coastline? In all likelyhood, it will be several months or years before the Han gets people to the west.

Look, Han China is larger than Gondor, Rohan, Mordor put together and probably more populous. In any age, it would make a huge geopolitical impact.

If Sauron can't corrupt them, then he probably reverts to being his scheming, corrupting self and tries to cosy up to the Han.

[Gurgeh]

If the Han where givin the ability to make contact with all the Races with eachother do you think that anyone would want a alliance with them? Could Mordor (without the use of offencive magic otherwise it would be a curbstomp and not be fair) stand up to the Han or would the armies of the Han crush them? Also if the Han could hire females into the army do you think that they could assasinate the witch king?

[The Romulan Republic]

They can kill the Witch King if they have someone brave enough not to run away or cower. The Nazgul suck as direct combatants- Aragorn even says in Fellowship of the Ring that the Nazgul will be reluctant to attack the inn in Bree, and he fights off five of them later. Their power is more indirect- have them fly a few passes over the battlefield though, and half the Han army will be running in terror or cowering on their knees.

Taking away Mordor's offensive magic is rather unfair. I honestly don't know, however, what the outcome would be without it. How many soldiers did the Han have in this period? Mordor had more than one individual army in the tens to hundreds of thousands. Those aren't all humans and orcs, either. Their forces include wargs, trolls, and the Harradrim Oliphants.

Edit: and beating back an assault from Mordor is one thing. Actually invading it is another. Inhospitable terrain protected by excellent fortresses. Though its actually easier to invade Mordor from the East than the North, South, or West, due to lack of mountains.

[Gurgeh]

They can kill the Witch King if they have someone brave enough not to run away or cower. The Nazgul suck as direct combatants- Aragorn even says in Fellowship of the Ring that the Nazgul will be reluctant to attack the inn in Bree, and he fights off five of them later. Their power is more indirect- have them fly a few passes over the battlefield though, and half the Han army will be running in terror or cowering on their knees.

Taking away Mordor's offensive magic is rather unfair. I honestly don't know, however, what the outcome would be without it. How many soldiers did the Han have in this period? Mordor had more than one individual army in the tens to hundreds of thousands. Those aren't all humans and orcs, either. Their forces include wargs, trolls, and the Harradrim Oliphants.

Edit: and beating back an assault from Mordor is one thing. Actually invading it is another. Inhospitable terrain protected by excellent fortresses. Though its actually easier to invade Mordor from the East than the North, South, or West, due to lack of mountains.

From what I understand (not so sure about this) during the Qin Dynasty one battle while invading the Chu army had about 600,000 men in the fight. Now I am not sure how big the Han Army is but I am betting it is somewhere around several hundred thousand.

[Gurgeh]

Also what would the people of Middle Earth like Elves,Dwarves,Men think of the Great wall of china? Or other Chinese architecture and buildings?

[Isolder74]

Also what would the people of Middle Earth like Elves,Dwarves,Men think of the Great wall of china? Or other Chinese architecture and buildings?

Have you seen the structures of the Numenorians? They make the Great Wall of the Han Period look like a sandbox. Just Minas Tirith alone is enough for the peoples of Middle Earth to go Meh.

[Tritio]

Have you seen the structures of the Numenorians?

Nope. Have you?

[Shroom Man 777]

Mulan kills the Witch King.

[Simon_Jester]

So let's say for number 1. How will the Elves react to Chinese culture or etc? How will Gondor or Rohan think of them.

What do you expect? The elves will sniff and feel superior, Gondor and Rohan will see them as a bunch of strange foreigners who live far away. Medieval people are provincial sorts, when you get right down to it. But they're not fools, so they'll want to convince the new guys to fight Mordor if possible.

Would China be a threat to Mordor if they have gone to war with them if they where in the Second Age or Third Age?

So much depends on the numerical strength of Sauron's orcs, and the effectiveness of his supernatural weapons against great armies of enemy troops, that this question is very hard to answer. I'm sure fighting the Chinese would require a serious and protracted military campaign. But I'm not at all sure Sauron wouldn't have what it took to win that campaign.

Also lets say Sauron can't corupt China. How will Sauron deal with them?

Why would he not be able to do that? He's a supernatural being, and corruption is what he does- he was personally responsible for the corruption and fall of his world's version of Atlantis.

[NecronLord]

Have you seen the structures of the Numenorians?

Nope. Have you?

Their defensive walls are generally described as 'unbreakable' and this includes gunpowder. Certainly, brick for brick, they're miles better than the crude Han-era wall, or indeed, the Ming one.

Of course, no one is building those kind of fortifications in Middle Earth in the relevant time period.

[Gurgeh]

So how do Chinese fighting styles compair to ME fighting styles? What will the people of ME think of the Martial arts?

[Simon_Jester]

So how do Chinese fighting styles compair to ME fighting styles? What will the people of ME think of the Martial arts?

Could you please explain why you are asking all these questions? Or give a little more detail, at least?

[NecronLord]

So how do Chinese fighting styles compair to ME fighting styles? What will the people of ME think of the Martial arts?

There is no way to know the relative skill of Middle Earth combat techinques as they're described narratively, the fights in Tolkien's fiction are usually swift and decisive, rather than cinematically overlong, but that's about all we can say. On some occasions we see magical weapons described that would give them a definite edge, of course.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not much information on individual fighting styles, but military tactics are a bit better described.

Rohirim tactics obviously heavily favor cavalry charges, though they have also been known to use skirmishing tactics (horse archers to wear down the Uruk Hai that captured Merry and Pippin) and shield walls on foot.

Elves tend to make heavy use of archers.

Gondor seems to be a primarily infantry based force- Denethor notes, I think, in The Return of the King that they lack cavalry. The same is stated to apply to Mordor. Gondor is also familiar with guerilla warfare in Ithillian.

[Shroom Man 777]

So how do Chinese fighting styles compair to ME fighting styles? What will the people of ME think of the Martial arts?

Could you please explain why you are asking all these questions?

Making a crossover fanfic, perhaps, while knowing little to nothing about the works of Tolkien (or the history of China for that matter)?