DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Moderator: Steve
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
When does Superman hit the public domain, again?
If the big-fucking-reboot means that we might have a chance to see Lian Harper and Red Arrow again down the line - without the bullshit in Gay For Justice - then I'm all for it.
If the big-fucking-reboot means that we might have a chance to see Lian Harper and Red Arrow again down the line - without the bullshit in Gay For Justice - then I'm all for it.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Cornell site on the Public DomainMolyneux wrote:When does Superman hit the public domain, again?
95 years after first publication so...
Sometime between 2027 and 2033?
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Makes sense. They will lose the ability to do origin stories anymore after 2013.Imperial Overlord wrote:DC losing control of part of Superman
Hotfoot found this little gem today. Losing control of a large chunk of Superman may be part of the reason that DC is considering this reboot, so they can get it underway while they still have some control.
It will be pretty interesting to see how DC gets around not being able to use Lois Lane, if I am reading the article correctly.
So how rich will the Siegels and Schusters be after WB gets sick of someone owning part of one of their most recognizable and iconic properties?
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
I don't think they need to get rid of the characters, but they have to pay royalties to use them or certain aspects of them. Still if they choose to get rid of the people like Lois and Perry White while they try and get around this law suit or something it would make the Wonder Woman+Superman rumors make sense. They substitute out Lois in exchange for Diana while they deal with the issue of what they can and can't do/use without paying up.Havok wrote:Makes sense. They will lose the ability to do origin stories anymore after 2013.Imperial Overlord wrote:DC losing control of part of Superman
Hotfoot found this little gem today. Losing control of a large chunk of Superman may be part of the reason that DC is considering this reboot, so they can get it underway while they still have some control.
It will be pretty interesting to see how DC gets around not being able to use Lois Lane, if I am reading the article correctly.
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Which will hopefully usher in our 'Brightest Day'.Ahriman238 wrote:Least there's a ray of sunlight.
I'm mixed about all of this.
When it comes to the main DC continuity, I'm out of the loop for the most part. Most of my knowledge regarding the current affairs in the DC Universe comes from reading threads like these. I rarely have the chance to go down to a comic book store and pick up a few copies. If I lived near one, I'd be buying 'em more often than not. This is why I'm a bigger fan of collecting Graphic Novels. But I don't read Graphic Novels for continuity sakes. I read 'em for the story and characters. I have no problem jumping from 'Kingdom Come' to 'Justice' to 'Superman: Earth One' to 'Superman: Tomorrow'.
So a reboot does sound appealing. If I continue to read comics, I'll be able to follow these superheroes every step up the way. I don't have to worry about trying to remember what Batman was going through back when I was learning how to walk.
On the other hand, it sucks for those who've been following these characters since the beginning. It almost feels like they're going to be erased from existence. All their character development mattered little if they were just going to end up being replaced. There's really no resolution here. I think that's what DC Comics should do. Give Current Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, all of them -- give 'em all closure. They deserve an ending. That's when it's safe to start from scratch. (Kinda like the Batman movies.)
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
While Superman: Secret Origins does tie into a lot of Silver Age stuff, and a fair bit of the recent continuity, it is definitely worth picking up as a Graphic Novel. In my opinion it is one of the best tellings of the Superman origin story.Tomzilla wrote:When it comes to the main DC continuity, I'm out of the loop for the most part. Most of my knowledge regarding the current affairs in the DC Universe comes from reading threads like these. I rarely have the chance to go down to a comic book store and pick up a few copies. If I lived near one, I'd be buying 'em more often than not. This is why I'm a bigger fan of collecting Graphic Novels. But I don't read Graphic Novels for continuity sakes. I read 'em for the story and characters. I have no problem jumping from 'Kingdom Come' to 'Justice' to 'Superman: Earth One' to 'Superman: Tomorrow'.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Thanks for the suggestion, TimothyC! I'll be sure to give that one a read when I see it.TimothyC wrote:While Superman: Secret Origins does tie into a lot of Silver Age stuff, and a fair bit of the recent continuity, it is definitely worth picking up as a Graphic Novel. In my opinion it is one of the best tellings of the Superman origin story.Tomzilla wrote:When it comes to the main DC continuity, I'm out of the loop for the most part. Most of my knowledge regarding the current affairs in the DC Universe comes from reading threads like these. I rarely have the chance to go down to a comic book store and pick up a few copies. If I lived near one, I'd be buying 'em more often than not. This is why I'm a bigger fan of collecting Graphic Novels. But I don't read Graphic Novels for continuity sakes. I read 'em for the story and characters. I have no problem jumping from 'Kingdom Come' to 'Justice' to 'Superman: Earth One' to 'Superman: Tomorrow'.
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Yeah, it does clarify Supes' post-Infinite Crisis origin while setting up elements of the New Krypton saga.Tomzilla wrote:Thanks for the suggestion, TimothyC! I'll be sure to give that one a read when I see it.TimothyC wrote:While Superman: Secret Origins does tie into a lot of Silver Age stuff, and a fair bit of the recent continuity, it is definitely worth picking up as a Graphic Novel. In my opinion it is one of the best tellings of the Superman origin story.Tomzilla wrote:When it comes to the main DC continuity, I'm out of the loop for the most part. Most of my knowledge regarding the current affairs in the DC Universe comes from reading threads like these. I rarely have the chance to go down to a comic book store and pick up a few copies. If I lived near one, I'd be buying 'em more often than not. This is why I'm a bigger fan of collecting Graphic Novels. But I don't read Graphic Novels for continuity sakes. I read 'em for the story and characters. I have no problem jumping from 'Kingdom Come' to 'Justice' to 'Superman: Earth One' to 'Superman: Tomorrow'.
Still, Johns does offer a new take on certain elements and brings together bits from throughout various incarnations, from the Donner films to STAS.
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Honestly, at this point, I don't care anymore. The comic book medium just doesn't work for me anymore, TV series and movies are better. And this is despite the great art.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Here's my personal viewpoint.Steve wrote:Honestly, at this point, I don't care anymore. The comic book medium just doesn't work for me anymore, TV series and movies are better. And this is despite the great art.
The instant the Johns-era of Green Lantern ends, that's it for me and my collection.
I'll be done, finished, finito and it would take a major stunt/creative team to bring me back (ex. a newJeph Loeb/Tim Sale Batman collaboration).
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
I don't know I'll ever stop caring, but I've certainly stopped bothering. These days, the only series' I even try to follow are Green Arrow (for reasons I can't really nail down, but at least partially because JLU made him a more interesting character than the comics ever did before for me) and Batgirl (because when they announced Steph would be the new Batgirl I was 'Yeah, right, that's going to work', and it did, despite the distressing amount of purple in her costume).
Both DC and Marvel have had their ups and downs, but these days, it seems like TPTB are intentionally forcing downs for reasons I can't comprehend.
Marvel had that stupid Civil War, changed Spidey's nature and costume and undid his marriage (bla bla teenage readers cant relate bla bla. Yeah. In the two decades he's been married in the real world teenage readers shunned Spider-Man comics because of that. Oh wait.)
DC had that Infinite Crisis stupidity, brought back Damian, and essentially undid everything that made Hal Jordan's fall have meaning.
Oh, and thanks for making none of Wally's character development matter by bringing back Barry (you know, the guy you spend 20 years telling the fans 'No, he WON'T be back. At all. EVER.')
Both DC and Marvel have had their ups and downs, but these days, it seems like TPTB are intentionally forcing downs for reasons I can't comprehend.
Marvel had that stupid Civil War, changed Spidey's nature and costume and undid his marriage (bla bla teenage readers cant relate bla bla. Yeah. In the two decades he's been married in the real world teenage readers shunned Spider-Man comics because of that. Oh wait.)
DC had that Infinite Crisis stupidity, brought back Damian, and essentially undid everything that made Hal Jordan's fall have meaning.
Oh, and thanks for making none of Wally's character development matter by bringing back Barry (you know, the guy you spend 20 years telling the fans 'No, he WON'T be back. At all. EVER.')
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Yeah. I've never been a regular comic buyer, but using the internet to follow things I see so much that just puts me off and convinces me not to bother. TV and movies are written for much wider audiences. Non-fanboys who aren't as obsessed with grimdark "maturity," obsessive reworking of continuity, or pursuing their own personal agendas (like forcefully bringing back their favorite past era or magically erasing characters' marriages). As such, TV and movie adaptations filter out a lot of the crap that brings down the actual comics. I'm a fan of the genre and of the characters, and I'll still follow the comics by reading about them on forums and websites, but I won't buy the books.Steve wrote:Honestly, at this point, I don't care anymore. The comic book medium just doesn't work for me anymore, TV series and movies are better. And this is despite the great art.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Well, they could always use the Stan Lee version of the character.Havok wrote:Makes sense. They will lose the ability to do origin stories anymore after 2013.Imperial Overlord wrote:DC losing control of part of Superman
Hotfoot found this little gem today. Losing control of a large chunk of Superman may be part of the reason that DC is considering this reboot, so they can get it underway while they still have some control.
It will be pretty interesting to see how DC gets around not being able to use Lois Lane, if I am reading the article correctly.
So how rich will the Siegels and Schusters be after WB gets sick of someone owning part of one of their most recognizable and iconic properties?
I guess they'd just shell out for copyrights if they had any brains and integrity- there are plenty of reasons why Lois Lane works as Superman's romantic interest and the characters they have as surrogates (Lana Lang, Wonder Woman, and... Maxima or something?) for her don't without severe changes to their characters. Of course, this is comics, so I expect them to take this into a decidedly dumber direction. Should be fun to watch from the outside.
Invited by the new age, the elegant Sailor Neptune!
I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
In theory this is a good idea. As peoples comments on the DCAU show, most of these heroes and heroines work best when distilled down to their essence, without huge amounts of continuity to worry about.
In reality, it will probably crash and burn because of the common nerd tendencies to ruin what they care about most by obsessing over all the wrong things. Plot will take precedent over story and instead of actual concern about continuity will we get the enshrinement on minutia. And we can expect this because even if they restart DC is still DC and still run by the same comic book people who gave us all of this before.
I like superheros and I really enjoy books like "Kingdom Come" that attempt to analyze the hero as a literary device but I don't have any faith in DC being able to do this on anything approaching a consistent enough basis to actually make me want to read any comic until after it has had years of vetting for its quality. I wish it was different.
In reality, it will probably crash and burn because of the common nerd tendencies to ruin what they care about most by obsessing over all the wrong things. Plot will take precedent over story and instead of actual concern about continuity will we get the enshrinement on minutia. And we can expect this because even if they restart DC is still DC and still run by the same comic book people who gave us all of this before.
I like superheros and I really enjoy books like "Kingdom Come" that attempt to analyze the hero as a literary device but I don't have any faith in DC being able to do this on anything approaching a consistent enough basis to actually make me want to read any comic until after it has had years of vetting for its quality. I wish it was different.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Let me clarify my earlier commends: I have no problems with following the DCU.
I grew up with these characters -- thank you Bruce Timm -- and I love them. I love the Flash Rogues, the GLC, Batman -- all of it.
I just don't intend to keep buying books after Johns leaves GL. That's going to be it, hence it taking a major outing like Loeb/Sale on Batman or Johns/Kollins on the Flash to bring out my wallet again.
I grew up with these characters -- thank you Bruce Timm -- and I love them. I love the Flash Rogues, the GLC, Batman -- all of it.
I just don't intend to keep buying books after Johns leaves GL. That's going to be it, hence it taking a major outing like Loeb/Sale on Batman or Johns/Kollins on the Flash to bring out my wallet again.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Does anyone really believe that this reboot will stick? Since when has any widely-publicized change to the status quo lasted more than a few months in comics? This is just going to be another stunt like Superman, Captain America and Batman's "deaths" and will be undone before the ink dries.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Actually, Barry, Hal and even Jason stayed dead for a surprisingly long time, and Kara did take quite a while to make her comeback, too.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
I think certain aspects of the reboot will be relaxed as time goes on.
But it's no secret DC (and Marvel) have been bleeding readers or that it's hard to attract casual/new fans. I think the core aspects are staying for a good long while.
But it's no secret DC (and Marvel) have been bleeding readers or that it's hard to attract casual/new fans. I think the core aspects are staying for a good long while.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Maybe they shouldn't be doing their level best to get rid of their established readership then. How hard can it be to figure out that when you're not only alienating your established fanbase, but you fail to attract a new one, maybe you're doing something wrong?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
It depends on how serious the tweaks to continuity are.Batman wrote:Maybe they shouldn't be doing their level best to get rid of their established readership then. How hard can it be to figure out that when you're not only alienating your established fanbase, but you fail to attract a new one, maybe you're doing something wrong?
We know their biggest bestsellers (Morrison's Batman, the GL books) are coming through unscathed and unaltered.
The reboot is a risk, but they may feel the potential influx of new readers outweighs alienating some of the fanbase.
The whole thing does feel somewhat like a move of desperation on DC's part.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
I think that the decision to make every new comic available for digital download on the same day that the issue is published is more important than anything. Most people don't want to walk into dedicated comic book shops (if they can even find one in their town) or accumulate a bigger and bigger stack of books. Make the downloads easy and post the link on every partner site, or even in commercials for shows like Young Justice.
The Big Two really do need to draw in wider audiences, since their core readership is tiny. A top selling comic these days sells a bit over 100,000 copies. That's crap. A midnight rerun of some 1980s B-movie on Syfy probably reaches a bigger audience than that.
But they could've made their comics more accessible without a big reboot. Just have every comic start a new arc or run that focuses on the basics of the characters, and keep convoluted continuity and various BS to a minimum in future issues.
The Big Two really do need to draw in wider audiences, since their core readership is tiny. A top selling comic these days sells a bit over 100,000 copies. That's crap. A midnight rerun of some 1980s B-movie on Syfy probably reaches a bigger audience than that.
But they could've made their comics more accessible without a big reboot. Just have every comic start a new arc or run that focuses on the basics of the characters, and keep convoluted continuity and various BS to a minimum in future issues.
"They're not triangular, but they are more or less blade-shaped"- Thrawn McEwok on the shape of Bakura destroyers
"Lovely. It's known as impugning character regarding statement of professional qualifications' in the legal world"- Karen Traviss, crying libel because I said that no soldier she interviewed would claim that he can take on billion-to-one odds
"I've already laid out rules for this thread that we're not going to make these evidential demands"- Dark Moose on supporting your claims
"Lovely. It's known as impugning character regarding statement of professional qualifications' in the legal world"- Karen Traviss, crying libel because I said that no soldier she interviewed would claim that he can take on billion-to-one odds
"I've already laid out rules for this thread that we're not going to make these evidential demands"- Dark Moose on supporting your claims
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Wouldn't be a first time. The Modern Age had its problems to be sure (any franchise this large is bound to) but it worked, by and large. There was no reason to go back to Silver Age Stupidity. Of course, expecting reason from superhero comics is pretty much well, seriously, you actually expected that to happen? Get out, doubly especially when the one doing the asking is a comic book superhero
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
I have to say that as a reader of Stephanie Brown and Supergirl, this HIGHLY upsets me.
Supergirl is after the very strong run of Jamal Igle still going well, and now they're giving her a ridiculous costume makeover that makes her current one downright good. See here.
Stephanie Brown has it even worse. Currently she's in a very strong Batgirl run by Brian Q. Miller that many see as the best that happened recently at DC, and now they axe that book to shove barbara back into the Batgirl role.
Especially the second decision has upset many, since Stephanie Brown has a history of being treated bad by DC.
Supergirl is after the very strong run of Jamal Igle still going well, and now they're giving her a ridiculous costume makeover that makes her current one downright good. See here.
Stephanie Brown has it even worse. Currently she's in a very strong Batgirl run by Brian Q. Miller that many see as the best that happened recently at DC, and now they axe that book to shove barbara back into the Batgirl role.
Especially the second decision has upset many, since Stephanie Brown has a history of being treated bad by DC.
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
Forbidden.
And please say you're kidding me. The one smart thing DC did since the Infinite Crisis idiocy was not bringing Barbara back as Batgirl.
And please say you're kidding me. The one smart thing DC did since the Infinite Crisis idiocy was not bringing Barbara back as Batgirl.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: DC Hits the Reset Button -- Again...
If you mean me, I meant that. I like Steph as Batgirl and find the idea of Barbara returning to that role ridiculous.Batman wrote:Forbidden.
And please say you're kidding me. The one smart thing DC did since the Infinite Crisis idiocy was not bringing Barbara back as Batgirl.