StarDestroyer.Net BBS

 Post subject: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-17 07:10pm 

So the movie opens friday. I saw a picture book for little kids when I was at a bookstore today and it gave away much of the plot.
First and last spoiler box for this thread, you are warned, if you find out anything you didn't want to know from this point on, it's your own fault.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-17 09:15pm 

Well, for one, the attack would've killed a lot of Americans, naturally. That's bad enough.

Secondly, the government was big on covering up the few attacks that did hit American soil during the war. IIRC, there were a number of U-Boat attacks, and an experimental balloon bomb the Japanese launched that managed to reach the US and kill some people. The government hushed that one up because they figured that if the Japanese got wind that it worked, even that little bit, they'd be encouraged to try again, possibly with better results.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 02:29am 

Er...I'm pretty sure the only people that the balloon bombs managed to kill were after the war had actually ended.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 07:27am 

One of the balloons took out some of the power lines attached to the reactor making plutonium for Fat Man. It only came out in IIRC a New Yorker article in the 70s.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 03:59pm 

Hell, there were Japanese landings on American soil. They captured two of the Aleutian islands, and were eventually repelled by US forces. I think that's one of the big hushed up ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign
There you go.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 05:59pm 

The post-credits scene for the film is going to be a teaser for the Avengers. It's been leaked to YouTube already.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 07:11pm 

Tried to find it, Disney seems to be slapping them down.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 10:09pm 

Ok, ok, dead people, particularly civilians= bad. A single run by five bombers with conventional weapons still wouldn't stop or even signifigantly slow down the push towards Berlin. If anything, a horde of G.I.s would get there quicker, by virtue of being royally pissed off.

That said, does anyone else think the War Bonds tour is going to be as hilarious as it will be painful to watch?

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 10:26pm 

Payload is probably unconventional. Deathspore bombs for everyone! HAIL HYDRA!

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-18 11:10pm 

Bah! If it were a true HYDRA op they'd drop millions of tiny crystals to scatter the beams from their petrifying satellite... Oh, wait. That's AIM. When HYDRA builds a death-ray from space, it's just a death ray, without some of the more ridiculous features.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-19 05:04am 

With no knowledge of the movie, I'm predicting some humiliating stuff followed by a USO show where he's in a camp that gets attacked and actually uses his super-goodness to kill some Nazis, prompting the military to put him in the field.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-19 12:35pm 

My understanding is (granted from a kid's book) that after he gets booed off the stage at his first USO show in Europe, he convinces Howard Stark to fly him on an unauthorized mission where he drops from a plane, then infiltrates and destroys a secret HYDRA base solo, and rescues a bunch of Allied Prisoners, including Bucky.

He also gets to see the great secret of this base, a giant wall-map of Europe with the location of every secret HYDRA base, because what's a secret base without a map showing where every other secret base is?

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-22 04:15pm 

Saw it last night. Very, very good. It's not Iron Man, but it is close to it. Great characters, great performances by the main cast, and an interesting plot. Definitely worth the price of admission, and I thought the 3D was done well. Red Skull was great! (Unsurprising, seeing as how it's Hugo Weaving) I thought Hydra was handled well, and the movie did a great job of side-stepping the whole Cap wins WW2 by himself problem.

Yes, Rogers goes on an unauthorized mission to rescue the 107th, but it's not motivated by pride. He wants to save Bucky. It's actually Agent Carter who get's him on the plane though. Originally he was gonna take a Jeep. Additionally, he doesn't destroy the base at all. He just wants to get Bucky and the American soldiers out. Red Skull activates the self-destruct.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-23 07:31pm 

As to the wall-map, remember that the Red Skull uses this facility to make command decisions at times- he's physically present when Cap shows up to raid the place, after all. He'll need the documents and maps he'd normally have, and since this is WWII, he can't exactly carry it all on a secure laptop on his person.

It is.

In case you missed it, by that point Hydra has gone rogue. Their plan is to devastate all possible opposition with those bombers, one attack after another. This includes devastating Germany, but only after doing the same to its enemies.

Given the 'limitless' power of the Cube, and the sophistication of the other weapons Hydra has in its arsenal, I would expect them to be able to create a nuke-equivalent. Something like the massively explosive behavior we see from the 'blue energy' technology Hydra uses, scaled up.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 05:19am 

Just got back...

AWESOME!!!

Everything I could have hoped for from a theatrical cut of a Captain America movie.

Gawd they fucking nailed it. The corniness of the name, the outfit, how it comes to exist, how it grows on America, then the soldiers then YOU.

The old shield! The new shield! They didn't try to overly focus on it in action which made it seem more real. There were only a couple times when they actually focused on the shield and not Cap and it worked great that way.

VITA-RAYS! VIBRANIUM! I LOVE IT!

Nazi's getting killed, Hydra with laser guns, but still wearing wool lined bomber jackets.

Chris Evans got Steve Rogers and Cap perfect, and coming from horn dog characters, cocky ass characters like Johhny Storm, and the guys from The Losers and Scott Pilgrim Vs, to the complete opposite where he can't even figure out how to talk to a broad, was great. Fondu! HA!

The Howling Commandos fit in seamlessly and weren't corny at all. Tommy Lee Jones was great as the gruff Colonel that keeps doubting and yet pushing Rogers throughout the movie.

I like the new take on Bucky and instead of just trying to do an aged version, so as not to explain the youth (Chris O'donnel's Robin) they give him a fresh twist. (as far as I know, it may have been in the comics)

Perfect set up as the Winter Soldier as well, as in case you missed it, the Red Skull was experimenting on him when Rogers rescued him. Coincidence? I think not. The Red Skull will have known that connection and been planning to make use of it.

THE RED SKULL!!! Damnit, if you need an arrogant character that doesn't come of as arrogant in your movie, get Mr. Weaving's number. EXCELLENT portrayal, and I think the best villain yet in the Marvel stable as he wants to rule EVERYTHING! and has, the strength, the smarts and cunning to do it. A absolutely worthy adversary to Cap.
Oh and what a lovely little journey he is taking in the cosmic cube. To be continued...

The other things I like in this movie is that they firmly establish that the Marvel universe has always been ahead of ours. Notice the 1940's New York skyline? Those buildings shouldn't be there now, let alone then. Starks, anti-grav car. The obvious Hydra tech. The GARGANTUASAURUS TANKS!

Marvel is doing an excellent job of not only world building, but tying it all together. And as I said in the other thread... TRUEBELIEVERGASM!!! for the Avengers trailer. Got a much better view of just what is going on in it. I swear I saw Loki on a fucking motorcycle, and if I did... AWESOME! I also notice that there is no hint of the Hulk. It's almost as if they realize that the movie kinda got overlooked and are letting people forget about him so that he is a big hit The Avengers.

Now, don't get me wrong, there were a couple things I didn't like in this movie.

I'm not a fan of the James Bond cycle for one, or that scene as a whole. It seemed a little forced.

Also Cap's "death" scene, while one of the most touching I have scene in an action flick, the actual reason for his death is... foggy at best. It seemed like all the manned bombs were off the flying wing, and with the Cosmic Cube gone, it wouldn't have been much more than a REALLY big plane crashing into someplace. With all the amazing feats we see Cap pull, you would think he could find a way off, even while he was crashing it, or the Army could have gotten a plane up in the sky he could have attempted to jump to and maybe miss, then falling to his "death" in the icy waters. But I mean, the moment between Cap and Peggy is great and I feel comes awfully close to making up for the cloudy reasons why he has to die crashing the wing.

Overall, and I say this as a COMPLETE and GIDDY Iron Man Fanboy, this movie is every bit the equal to Iron Man.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 05:26am 

Oh and it is doing GREAT against Harry Potter which actually had a record fall for the series in it's second week, which after seeing Cap, is it's only enemy as far as box office goes, because I don't think people are going to be disappointed at all.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 08:46am 

We actually only saw TWO of the eight cosmic-energy bombs fall out of the plane, the other eight were supposedly still there.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 04:51pm 

Just got back from seeing it
It was awesome!
Just as Iron Man good, for sure better than Iron Man 2. Not better than Iron man but so close it's nearly impossible to call one better, Iron man went from strength to strength while Cap had two or three hitches.

Also the trailer spoiled 80% of the good jokes.
As for the cosmic energy bombs I kept waiting for one to go off with a big kaboom somewhere but it just never happened. Nor was there any point to Rogers stealing that clip of magic laser rifle ammo considering they brought back a dozen laser rifles plus a 222 with a laser rifle cannon.
And I might have to watch it again but I'm pretty sure the Super German tanks were Ratte's which is awesome because the Maus was a insane over the top super land battleship tank and the Ratte was it's "never it made it past paper" big brother armed with actual battleship cannons.
Search for Ratte Tank via Google to get a dozen artists Interpretations based on the half dozen sets of plans out there


Myself I prefer the old FH:SW interpretation of the Ratte and yes those are 280mm guns mounted with sub-turrets armed with 88mm's with turrets borrowed from Tigers but I've seen versions with even bigger guns and only two side turrets with 128mm guns instead.
If your looking for WWII Tank wank apparently Hydra will settle for nothing less than the best.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 05:22pm 

Agreed! It was wonderful. Hugo Weaving did an excellent job as Red Skull. Made me think of a more arrogant Agent Smith in the performance.


The escapees hadn't been located yet. I considered that a basic tactic; if you infiltrate an enemy base and see weird enemy tech, take something small enough to fit inside a pocket while accomplishing the mission. Cap might have been expecting he would have to sneak the prisoners to sneak out, but they were a bit annoyed at their treatment.

Too bad regular Hydra troopers didn't have their blue guns capable of full auto fire like Red Skull did. (Blue guns basically one hit anywhere to disintegrate the target, but are slow firing; Red Skull had a full auto one and took out a squad of troops in a matter of seconds.)

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 07:10pm 

The Red Skull may also have been deliberately firing the weapon 'too fast,' confident that this specific weapon could stand operating conditions that would cause explosive failure in a normal mass-production version. Or he may have been taking a gamble that ordinary Hydra troopers would be forbidden to take, because he understands the limits of his weapon better than his average minion.

Both of those are consistent with the mad-science genre of the pulp era, and the idea that the villain is himself a scientific mastermind- which fits well with the idea of Cap as being the sort of guy who steps straight out of a 1940s period piece.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 09:11pm 

Bean, that tank still doesn't do the one in the movie justice.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 09:52pm 

That's only because you can't give it the right scale. God that was a fun mode, thirty two people on each side one team doing nothing but manning all of the Ratte's turrets while the other thirty two try and hit the Ratte with enough bombs to kill it or break it and blow it up from the inside.

Back to the the movie, considering the build up for The Avengers and the fact we are going to see it next year I wonder if we will get follow up movies from everyone going off an teaming off. Who could say no to Bruce Banner/Steve Rogers buddy comedy? And can you picture the thought of a Iron Man/Thor hitting the town style movie? You'd get alcohol poisoning just waiting the thing! The more I look at the Avengers and if it's a mega success I wonder where they go with the story line.

Or for that matter if DC will ape them?
Edit
For that matter if they will go even crazier?
Like say the current Spiderman reboot leading into an Avengers 2 movie? Might be a chance to give some of the lesser hero their own movies which will make tons of money if you give them to directors because and I'm throwing shit out there if they duplicated the pattern and gave us two more new hero's for the team in 2013 and then Avengers 2 in 2014... ahh a man can dream.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 11:06pm 

The Avengers movies and Spider-man are from different studios, so there's no linkage there. You're also not going to see Mr. Fantastic and Tony Stark in the same movie either.

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 11:31pm 

Yeah and it sucks. The Punisher, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man and X-Men all are licensed out and I think Disney/Marvel has to honor the previous contracts which have usage stipulations that say the studios with the license rights have to make a movie in X amount of time or the rights revert.

That is why we got Spidey and X-Men reboots so soon after the last movies came out from the previous versions. The studios don't want to let the rights to revert back to Marvel and see them get all the money from them.

I'm sure the Disney Legal Team of Doom is hot on the case as we speak.

I mean how fucking close are we to a Secret Wars movie? If Marvel got back Spidey, the FF (and Galactus) and the X-Men (including Magneto)...

I mean can you picture the live action big screen version of Spidey handing the X-Men their asses?!

Reed Richards leading the charge against Galactus!!

FANBOYGASM!!!

 Post subject: Re: Captain America SPOILERS!

Posted: 2011-07-24 11:40pm 

For the record, I agree with Hav 100%. I do think the only Marvel flick better than this is Iron Man. The movie REALLY nails Cap as a character; the scene where I knew this, without reservations, was when Dr. Erskine asks Steve if he wants to go overseas and kill Nazis. Steve humbly responds, "I don't want to kill anyone. I just don't like bullies, no matter where they're from." THAT's Captain America, right there.