Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Chris Parr]

If I remember correctly the Starkiller weapon obliterated the star system that was the seat of the New Republic government, and it needs to drain a star for every shot, right? So later we find it in orbit around another sun, so there must be some kind of super hyper drives on that planet somewhere.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, but it really should have been explained in the film.

[Chris Parr]

Maybe the explanations will be in "The Force Awakens: Incredible Cross Sections." Is that out already?

[Iroscato]

I don't know. Having a weapons platform that can effectively refuel itself (by draining stars) and hit anywhere in the galaxy with near-impunity seems like a useful thing to have. It is kind of putting all your eggs in one basket, though, if you sink most of your resources into that, and I doubt the First Order has the resources Palpatine's Empire did.

Of course, you could make the same damn criticism of the old Empire too- they could have built a ridiculous SD fleet for what they blew on Death Stars.

Yeah but the Death Star was actually a battlestation. The planet is however immobile, only has a few shots (once it drains a star, where does it go?) and offers only an insignificant advantage. Would you not rather build a DS instead of this?

Starkiller had hyperdrive capability. It could go to literally any star system in the galaxy, drain the star, and obliterate a system on the other side of the galaxy. Rinse and repeat. Maybe it doesn't make much sense from a military standpoint, but who gives a shit? Star Wars is an intrinsically silly franchise, it always has been. You could poke all kinds of holes in the design of the Starkiller base (for example containing a star inside a chamber presumably smaller than Earth would get you at least a nuetron star, if not a black hole, if memory serves correctly. Something something Schwartzchild Radius)

[Thanas]

Starkiller had hyperdrive capability.

Where is that actually shown?

[Iroscato]

Starkiller had hyperdrive capability.

Where is that actually shown?

As someone else mentioned above, it's in a different system draining a different star during the movie's climax. Anyone with the most passing familiarity with the franchise should be able to extrapolate that it hyperjumped to that system in order to do so.

We never explicitly saw the Death Star go to hyperspace either, it was just suddenly there. Maybe someone mentioned it coming out of hyperspace though in the film, I forget.

[Solauren]

I don't know. Having a weapons platform that can effectively refuel itself (by draining stars) and hit anywhere in the galaxy with near-impunity seems like a useful thing to have. It is kind of putting all your eggs in one basket, though, if you sink most of your resources into that, and I doubt the First Order has the resources Palpatine's Empire did.

Of course, you could make the same damn criticism of the old Empire too- they could have built a ridiculous SD fleet for what they blew on Death Stars.

Yeah but the Death Star was actually a battlestation. The planet is however immobile, only has a few shots (once it drains a star, where does it go?) and offers only an insignificant advantage. Would you not rather build a DS instead of this?

Starkiller had hyperdrive capability. It could go to literally any star system in the galaxy, drain the star, and obliterate a system on the other side of the galaxy. Rinse and repeat. Maybe it doesn't make much sense from a military standpoint, but who gives a shit? Star Wars is an intrinsically silly franchise, it always has been. You could poke all kinds of holes in the design of the Starkiller base (for example containing a star inside a chamber presumably smaller than Earth would get you at least a nuetron star, if not a black hole, if memory serves correctly. Something something Schwartzchild Radius)

Unless it just drew off the photosphere. That would 'put the star out' visually for a little while.

[Thanas]

As someone else mentioned above, it's in a different system draining a different star during the movie's climax. Anyone with the most passing familiarity with the franchise should be able to extrapolate that it hyperjumped to that system in order to do so.

Really? Different systems? Where do you get that from?

[APlayerHater]

Yeah. I recall it not fully draining the star the first time. So I assumed it was the same star. If starkiller base can move that's news to me.

If it can move how did the rebels know its location the second time it fired?

[Batman]

'As the weapon is charged, it drains the sun until it disappears.' And yet there was still a sun there after the first firing. Sure, it could've been a binary system, but nothing in the visuals supports that, and even if it was, who pours that amount of resources into a weapon that can only be used one or two (maybe three for trinaries) times? It being hyper-capable makes much more sense.
And there's absolutely no mention of partial draining anywhere in the movie.

[ray245]

Well, Tatootine have two suns.

[Batman]

Both of which were visible in the sky. There's no indication Starkiller Base's was a binary, and even if it was, this leaves us with the abject stupidity of a superweapon you can only use a handful of times.

[Vympel]

Really? Different systems? Where do you get that from?

Pablo Hidalgo on twitter, inference from the film's dialog.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pab ... _Moves.png

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pab ... ved_On.png

Both of which were visible in the sky. There's no indication Starkiller Base's was a binary, and even if it was, this leaves us with the abject stupidity of a superweapon you can only use a handful of times.

The entire 'but I don't know if Starkiller Base moves' complaint is possibly one of the most ridiculously obtuse arguments I've seen in relation to TFA - the film gives us all the information we need to determine that it must be capable of hyperlight travel. We do not need to be explicitly told.

We're told that Starkiller Base drains stars to fire its weapon. The suggestion of 'partial draining' is bullshit and unsupported - Poe Dameron's line of dialog about 'as long as there's light, there's hope' tells us that we are meant to understand what Finn said as I assumed everyone already did - one star, one shot (apparently I was mistaken about what everyone should have understood). Accordingly, that it is mobile is the blindingly obvious conclusion.

[Adam Reynolds]

It's not like we actually see the Death Star jump to hyperspace either. Does it move at sublight from Alderaan to Yavin? Though we also see the same with the Millennium Falcon, all we see is it orbiting Yavin at sublight.

Though I wonder if the film would have been improved had they removed Starkiller Base from the story. The problem was that there were two plots in the film. The first, the hunt for Luke Skywalker, was resolved with a Deus Ex Machina. The second, that of The Resistance vs Starkiller Base, had no buildup. It just appeared halfway through the film.

The main change is that the Republic would have no relevance to the story, as they don't particularly care about Luke or the Jedi. They are fine just running the galaxy. Leia alienated her political allies with her devotion to finding her brother, which also put her at odds with the First Order who are out to eliminate him as a threat. The final battle could be rather small in comparison, it would instead be about the Millennium Falcon infiltrating the First Order's command ship to rescue Rey, with X-wings backing them up and providing a diversion. It would also be about stopping the First Order from sending their fleet against Luke.

One of the clever parts of the film was the use of Kylo Ren as a virtual Vader parody. Having a smaller final battle would have been an interesting way of doing that again. Save the bigger battles for the rest of the trilogy, after the war has widened. You can't keep increasing the scale and still having things be meaningful to the characters.

[Thanas]

Really? Different systems? Where do you get that from?

Pablo Hidalgo on twitter, inference from the film's dialog.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pab ... _Moves.png

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pab ... ved_On.png

Conceded then. Still a waste of resources.

[Crazedwraith]

Didn't Finn tell them where Starkiller was? How does he know if it's moved since he left? Do they give travel itinerary to their stormtrooper grunts?

[The Romulan Republic]

I could be wrong, but I thought it was said in the film that they'd gotten a repot from a Rebel scout ship. Or is that new EU stuff?

They could have tracked the shot that hit the New Republic to its point of origin, and if they got a scout ship their before the Starkiller left... well, isn't it possible to extrapolate a ship's possible destinations/trajectory when it enters Hyperspace?

[K. A. Pital]

Abrams is a lame scriptwriter, that's why.

[Kojiro]

I could be wrong, but I thought it was said in the film that they'd gotten a repot from a Rebel scout ship. Or is that new EU stuff?

I'm pretty sure they say in the movie it's from a scout ship. But if we assume the FO is marginally competent their next jump was already planned before they fired. Given the range on that weapon and the sheer volume of stars in the galaxy, just stumbling upon it is so astronomically absurd it is beyond belief.

They could have tracked the shot that hit the New Republic to its point of origin, and if they got a scout ship their before the Starkiller left... well, isn't it possible to extrapolate a ship's possible destinations/trajectory when it enters Hyperspace?

That would require someone to perform those calculations- into unknown space no less- and make an immediate jump into what one must assume is enemy territory to face what must be at least a Death Star. I'm not sure how easy that would be, or how long you'd have before the thing left but it would be ballsy as fuck. Not to mention you'd have to avoid detection.

[TheFeniX]

Late to the party. Was going to see this in theaters, but the dog had an episode with seizures and other stuff, so I hung around at home while the wife went. Only read the last page of this thread, but still feel like saying a few things.

Pretty damn good movie. That said:
The anti-lightsaber baton was as stupid in the movie as it was in the trailer. I swear it only existed as trailer-bait and had no build-up and no pay-off.

If Dark Emo-McBadguy was supposed to come off as a crybaby killing for daddies love. Kudos. The only thing I wish hadn't been spoiled, everywhere, was the actor playing him. I would have loved to be legitimately disappointed by his reveal after dropping the weak-ass Revan Act. I could have been like "fucking seriously? The mommas boy from This Is Where I Leave You? Bwahahaha!" Would have been glorious. Doesn't seem like the actor's fault at all though.

Racism and sexism in Hollywood and Star Wars delivers a Black Lead, Female Lead, and Guatemalan (That's what the wife said) backup lead. And not a lot of name power at that. At least someone has some damn balls.

What's next for The Empire Light?™ "This Solar System weapon is now FULLY OPERATIONAL! Oh shit, they blew that up? Someone buy a galaxy and we'll just throw it at people!" The lack of preparedness of the Star War galaxy is pathetic. People watch as planet killing lazerbeeeems blow up everything and they just sit around jerking it until 10 X-wings take care of it. Seriously, this is some Chronicles of Riddick levels of bullshit.

Rebels leave with like 6 ships left. They had, what, 20 at the start maybe? And they blow up a fucking planet. Holy shit, just make a few X-Wing possies of like 10 pilots each. Cocky attitudes required. These pilots make the Star Fox team look like amateurs. The First Order would be better off buying up all the spare X-Wing parts in the galaxy and paying off the Alliance's mechanics than doing anything else they're doing.

I could poke holes in this movie all day, but it was fun. And fun generally makes me shut up and just watch the movie. But Jesus, that electric-baton fight. Oh man, atrocious.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm pretty sure they say in the movie it's from a scout ship.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

But if we assume the FO is marginally competent their next jump was already planned before they fired.

Perhaps, but could they jump immediately, or would they need some time to charge up the engines to make a hyperspace jump with a fucking planet, especially if they were putting most of their power into the main gun?

Given the range on that weapon and the sheer volume of stars in the galaxy, just stumbling upon it is so astronomically absurd it is beyond belief.

Obviously, but that's clearly not what I was suggesting.

That would require someone to perform those calculations- into unknown space no less- and make an immediate jump into what one must assume is enemy territory to face what must be at least a Death Star. I'm not sure how easy that would be, or how long you'd have before the thing left but it would be ballsy as fuck. Not to mention you'd have to avoid detection.

"Ballsy as fuck" is a pretty good summary of the Rebellion/Resistance's usual modus operandi.

You have to take chances when you're that horribly outgunned and outnumbered.

[Kojiro]

Perhaps, but could they jump immediately, or would they need some time to charge up the engines to make a hyperspace jump with a fucking planet, especially if they were putting most of their power into the main gun?

This is the only real issue. Obviously they retain enough power from the drained star to jump, the question is whether or not they're capable of diverting some of that power (if indeed they even do divert power and don't use regular power generation) to the hyperdrive. It seems dubious to me they could have energy containment on the scale of a star but not be able to power up the hyperdrive at the same time as the gun.

[Mange]

Maybe the explanations will be in "The Force Awakens: Incredible Cross Sections." Is that out already?

Yes, but it doesn't deal with the Starkiller.

[Vympel]

I'm pretty sure they say in the movie it's from a scout ship. But if we assume the FO is marginally competent their next jump was already planned before they fired. Given the range on that weapon and the sheer volume of stars in the galaxy, just stumbling upon it is so astronomically absurd it is beyond belief.

As indicated in Hidalgo's tweet above, it was charge-jump-fire-charge, not charge-fire-jump-charge.

But Jesus, that electric-baton fight. Oh man, atrocious.

Statistically, it may in fact be the case that you are the only person in the known universe who has this opinion.

[ray245]

Thought this video will be interesting to share. It's talks about some of the early story ideas that were dropped in TFA. Luke had a much bigger role and the planets were quite different from the ones we got in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reNbf72qvQw