hongi wrote:There's a great book about Windu called Shatterpoint. He actually is a pretty cool character.
Yeah, Shatterpoint changed my mind about Windu; it's still my favorite of both the Clone Wars novels and Matthew Stover's SW books.
Basically, the films can only be saved by going outside the films. The PT is just that bad.
Back when the ROTS DVD first came out, my college roommies and I did an all-day, back-to-back marathon in chronological order. But I also used the marathon as an experiment:
1. To see how the films flowed in the 'intended' order.
2. To approach it -- especially the Prequels -- from the viewpoint of someone not versed in EU like myself who will link certain lines to EU works (ex. Palpatine's 'baseless, accusations of corruption against Valorum' quote bringing Cloak of Deception to the forefront).
In regards to the former, it wasn't perfect, but everything more or less fell into place. In regards to latter...oh, that was difficult -- and given the revelations of Darth Plagueis, it's pretty much impossible for me now.
Anyway, my thought is yes, the EU does improve aspects of the Prequels -- but the PT is not that bad and still watchable.
Mace was a fine character in the prequels. He, along with Obi-Wan, Yoda and the rest of the Jedi did exactly what they were they were supposed to do, which was to convey the unflexing and unwavering belief in their Order and every correct decision they ALWAYS made. They were supposed to be stiffing and arrogant in everything they did. That was the point.
The sabers hilts emotional impacts? Who even thinks about that? Someone said in the thread already "they glow, they cut through stuff". The hilts need an emotional attachment now?
Stofsk wrote:I loved the lightsabre Luke uses in Star Wars and Empire (i.e. Anakin's old lightsabre). Vader's as well is pretty boss. Obi-wan's is also cool, and I loved how Luke's new one in Return of the Jedi echoed it. There is a great sense of continuity there and how personalised they were.
Uh... what? Obi-Wan's saber looks completely different from Qui-Gon's. Anakin's looks completely different from Obi-Wan's. Mace's looks completely different from all of them.
And Luke's saber in ROTJ doesn't "echo" Obi-Wan's hilt, it is almost an exact copy. The only personalization that exists when it comes to hilts in Star Wars, is the prequel trilogy, not the OT.
Continuity maybe, but as the only "new" hilt you see comes from spare parts of Obi-Wan's, it's not like Luke had much of a choice.
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The sabers hilts emotional impacts? Who even thinks about that? Someone said in the thread already "they glow, they cut through stuff". The hilts need an emotional attachment now?
Why are you so scornful of a discussion about the symbolism that can be drawn from inanimate objects?
Havok wrote:And Luke's saber in ROTJ doesn't "echo" Obi-Wan's hilt, it is almost an exact copy.
Echoing something is like copying; they're synonymous.
Continuity maybe, but as the only "new" hilt you see comes from spare parts of Obi-Wan's, it's not like Luke had much of a choice.
You're looking at it too literally. That isn't what I meant by continuity. Vader's lightsabre has a general look it shares with his old one, but darker. You can compare and contrast the two, and see them as symbolic reflections of their character. Luke's lightsabre looks like Obi-wans, but shinier and 'newer' (where Obi-wan's was more weathered). 'Continuity' in the sense the design elements that influence the subsequent iterations stand out, and 'personalised' that each hilt reflects an aspect of their wielders. That the in-universe explanation was 'Luke made his new lightsabre out of parts left behind in Obi-wan's hut' is just a bonus.
RedImperator wrote:People are obviously conflating Samuel L. Jackson with his character when they say that, like he's really Jules Winnfield sitting there in Jedi robes. In reality, not only are you right that the character is weak and ineffectual, but the performance itself is abominable. I fucking love Samuel L. Jackson as much as the next guy, so it pains me to say that, but he was awful in the PT. Very flat, and a lot of his lines, especially exposition, were delivered like he was reading them off a cue card.
Hell, his role in Deep Blue Sea was more meaningful and effective than his role in the Prequels.
Also, yeah, Stofsk. For me, I'm not talking about just the hilts. I'm talking about some farmboy and some black-armored clad cyborg demon wielding lightsabers to outdated effects being a million times more powerful than dozens of hundreds of colorful alienoids and robed guys swinging their fancy 3D CGI effect laser swords in a quake 3 team arena or in whatever battles for three straight movies.
Just like how one shitty freighter and one menacing dagger chasing a hapless ambassador ship were more impacting and riveting than a biniminiminillion warships vaporizing each other over the shiniest galactic capital in the universe.
Well, so it's obvious that I'm not just talking about pieces of metal. Cause pieces of metal are pieces of metal no matter what they're in. I'm probably talking about everything else around these pieces of metal. Which is digressing from the main topic?
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Eternal_Freedom wrote:That's true, he felt wasted in the role. I suppose he took the "Jedi don't have emotion" to be literal.
imma go ahead and blame the direction and the bluescreen, since those were enough to turn Ewan MacGregor and Natalie Portman into wooden dummies
Was not Avatar also shot using a lot of blue/green screen element ? The acting seemed quite fine in that movie. I don't think the problem was reliance on new technology instead of old style sets.
Honestly, I don't think Portman is that great an actress in movies that don't have strong dramatic overtones. I've seen her in almost all of those types of movies she has done and I still think here best performance is Leon. I have found her fairly wooden dummyish in mostly everything else I have seen her in of the Star Wars ilk.
Portman seems like a good actress that needs good roles. If she has to carry a role on her own with even the slightest bit of less than stellar writing i.e., action/sci-fi/special effects heavy movies, it doesn't happen. V for Vendetta was her best effort in that regard and it wasn't very memorable to me.
And thinking about it, I've never been all that high on MacGregor either. I mean he is good, but there has never been anything that really jumped out and grabbed me that he has done. I like him better than his roles if you get my meaning.
It is ironic that Samuel L. Jackson who I feel does the most with the least when it comes to roles and writing does have such a stiff and unforgiving role in the PT.
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The sabers hilts emotional impacts? Who even thinks about that? Someone said in the thread already "they glow, they cut through stuff". The hilts need an emotional attachment now?
Why are you so scornful of a discussion about the symbolism that can be drawn from inanimate objects?
I'm not scornful of symbolism. However, we all know that there is no symbolism meant in the lightsabers outside of GL thinking that one design looks cooler than three others when presented to him by the effects department and then that X lightsaber needs to look Y years older/new and Z lightsaber has to look like A lightsaber for literal continuity. Which leads to your next two points and my response....
Havok wrote:And Luke's saber in ROTJ doesn't "echo" Obi-Wan's hilt, it is almost an exact copy.
Echoing something is like copying; they're synonymous.
Then I assert you used the wrong word and meant it was an homage and that is was built in honor of his mentor's saber correct? If I am correct, my point stands. It's not a homage as he had no choice in components. If I am not correct then and you meant it was a copy, my point still stands. Either way, Luke could only make that saber.
Continuity maybe, but as the only "new" hilt you see comes from spare parts of Obi-Wan's, it's not like Luke had much of a choice.
You're looking at it too literally. That isn't what I meant by continuity. Vader's lightsabre has a general look it shares with his old one, but darker. You can compare and contrast the two, and see them as symbolic reflections of their character. Luke's lightsabre looks like Obi-wans, but shinier and 'newer' (where Obi-wan's was more weathered). 'Continuity' in the sense the design elements that influence the subsequent iterations stand out, and 'personalised' that each hilt reflects an aspect of their wielders. That the in-universe explanation was 'Luke made his new lightsabre out of parts left behind in Obi-wan's hut' is just a bonus.
So how am I looking at it too literally again? Everything you just said can be ascribed to the literal continuity of characters by the effects department. Again... needs to be an older version, previous version, next version.
That Luke's new saber is built out of Obi-Wan's spare parts isn't a "bonus" it's a logical step and is what makes sense not only in the context of the story, but for the audience.
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RedImperator wrote:People are obviously conflating Samuel L. Jackson with his character when they say that, like he's really Jules Winnfield sitting there in Jedi robes. In reality, not only are you right that the character is weak and ineffectual, but the performance itself is abominable. I fucking love Samuel L. Jackson as much as the next guy, so it pains me to say that, but he was awful in the PT. Very flat, and a lot of his lines, especially exposition, were delivered like he was reading them off a cue card.
Hell, his role in Deep Blue Sea was more meaningful and effective than his role in the Prequels.
"Deep Blue Sea" They ate me! A motherfucking shark ate me!
Also, yeah, Stofsk. For me, I'm not talking about just the hilts. I'm talking about some farmboy and some black-armored clad cyborg demon wielding lightsabers to outdated effects being a million times more powerful than dozens of hundreds of colorful alienoids and robed guys swinging their fancy 3D CGI effect laser swords in a quake 3 team arena or in whatever battles for three straight movies.
Just like how one shitty freighter and one menacing dagger chasing a hapless ambassador ship were more impacting and riveting than a biniminiminillion warships vaporizing each other over the shiniest galactic capital in the universe.
Well, so it's obvious that I'm not just talking about pieces of metal. Cause pieces of metal are pieces of metal no matter what they're in. I'm probably talking about everything else around these pieces of metal. Which is digressing from the main topic?
No, but you have invalidated a lot of the babble about "hur hur the OT lightsabers mean more and are better!", as you admit that you like and have more attachment or sentimentality to the OT, therefore you like it's lightsabers more, not that they are any more or less thought out or suited to characters.
The one thing you did highlight was that that lightsabers in the PT reflect the Jedi in PT in that as powerful as they are, they aren't impressing anyone anymore and have lost their luster in the eyes of the galaxy, or in this case the viewers. It is painfully plain to us the viewers, that the time of the Jedi is over. They are faceless, soulless, obsolete soldiers of an outdated, soulless, outclassed Order going through the motions on the verge of extinction and part of the problem with the Old Republic that allowed it to be overthrown.
Symbolism indeed.
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I AM TIRED OF ALL THESE MOTHERFUCKING SHARKS IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING-- *CHOMP!*
Havok wrote:No, but you have invalidated a lot of the babble about "hur hur the OT lightsabers mean more and are better!"
"the OT mean more and are better" would be an accurate statement.
The one thing you did highlight was that that lightsabers in the PT reflect the Jedi in PT in that as powerful as they are, they aren't impressing anyone anymore and have lost their luster in the eyes of the galaxy, or in this case the viewers. It is painfully plain to us the viewers, that the time of the Jedi is over. They are faceless, soulless, obsolete soldiers of an outdated, soulless, outclassed Order going through the motions on the verge of extinction and part of the problem with the Old Republic that allowed it to be overthrown.
Symbolism indeed.
And I guess conversely when the lightsabers are ignited in the OT, they are full of meaning and emotionality and significance and resonance - the exact opposite of what you conveyed about PT lightsabers!
An entire order of a thousand Jedi screaming and waving their fancy lightsabers in some arena full of insectoid Geonosians was meaningless and failed to change the course of galactic events.
One farmboy touched by the Force, holding his father's lightsaber for the first time, on the other hand, rocked the galaxy forever.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Havok wrote:Uh... what? Obi-Wan's saber looks completely different from Qui-Gon's. Anakin's looks completely different from Obi-Wan's. Mace's looks completely different from all of them.
And Luke's saber in ROTJ doesn't "echo" Obi-Wan's hilt, it is almost an exact copy. The only personalization that exists when it comes to hilts in Star Wars, is the prequel trilogy, not the OT.
I have to amend this.
Obi-Wan's saber in the PT definitely is built with Qui-Gon's in mind, and while Anakin's bears zero resemblance to Obi-Wan's, it is basically just a scaled up version of Yoda's. There is certainly influence in the PT and of the type that Stofsk ascribes to the characters and sabers of the OT.
Anakin is prideful, like the rest of the Jedi, yet his power puts him above all others save Yoda, so it makes sense that his pride matches his power and only Yoda's saber (the supposed best in the Order) influences him.
Interestingly enough the spartan style of Yoda's saber fits both his passive, unassuming and bear essentials personality while also fitting the simple, strong and aggressive personality of Anakin.
Obi-Wan's saber as I said, shows Qui-Gon's in it's design and mirrors the literal and figurative transition of Padawan to Master and his stepping directly into the role and taking up the mantle of Qui-Gon's cause.
It is also interesting to note that as he failed in that cause and role completely, that the next saber we see of his in the OT is much much further away from Qui-Gon's than what he created in the PT. You can also see more of the Yoda/Anakin design in his OT saber as well which is also interesting as they are the only two Jedi to survive aside from Obi-Wan himself and together are the groundwork for what Luke will become; not only the redemption of Anakin, but the redemption of Obi-Wan as well.
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Shroom Man 777 wrote:I AM TIRED OF ALL THESE MOTHERFUCKING SHARKS IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING-- *CHOMP!*
Havok wrote:No, but you have invalidated a lot of the babble about "hur hur the OT lightsabers mean more and are better!"
"the OT mean more and are better" would be an accurate statement.
I agree with this statement.
The one thing you did highlight was that that lightsabers in the PT reflect the Jedi in PT in that as powerful as they are, they aren't impressing anyone anymore and have lost their luster in the eyes of the galaxy, or in this case the viewers. It is painfully plain to us the viewers, that the time of the Jedi is over. They are faceless, soulless, obsolete soldiers of an outdated, soulless, outclassed Order going through the motions on the verge of extinction and part of the problem with the Old Republic that allowed it to be overthrown.
Symbolism indeed.
And I guess conversely when the lightsabers are ignited in the OT, they are full of meaning and emotionality and significance and resonance - the exact opposite of what you conveyed about PT lightsabers!
It is who is wielding them that resonates anything, as you said. I was merely commenting on the whole lack of meaning and symbolism in the PT coupled with "GL DOESN'T GET IT ANYMORE!!" that seems to be the vibe in this thread.
An entire order of a thousand Jedi screaming and waving their fancy lightsabers in some arena full of insectoid Geonosians was meaningless and failed to change the course of galactic events.
One farmboy touched by the Force, holding his father's lightsaber for the first time, on the other hand, rocked the galaxy forever.
Hate to burst your bubble, but all those Jedi screaming and waving their fancy lightsabers in some arena full of insectoid Geonosians did indeed change the course of galactic events.
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You know what I mean, they weren't able to save themselves, they weren't able to stop the Sith from enacting their regime, they lost, they got mass murdered, and their Order was wiped out. It ties in with the lack of significance and resonance of the weapons they wield. Impotence and shit. Whereas that farmboy, for all his humility, when wielding that saber and imbibing it with wonder and awe, was able to do something that the Order with their flaccidity couldn't.
I think GL did no longer get it anymore. He could've been able to compel the meaninglessness of the Jedi Order, and how they no longer resonated with us, in a way that could've had more impact and shit on the viewer. He had messages, he had themes, he so wanted to touch them and we could see that there were jewels in this... but it just... didn't... work.
We talked about this in Testing anywhoo and I guess I'm getting repetitive with all my human resonant emotional meaning significance condition blahs.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
I think he got the message across, it just got lost in the CGI and horrid dialogue.
I mean, it's pretty blatantly obvious that he understood the Jedi (aside from the fact he created them) in ROTJ... Luke tosses away his lightsaber and he knows at that moment that he is a true Jedi, as does Palpatine as he, ironically, appoints him the first of the new breed giving rebirth to the very thing he struggled his entire life to destroy. Being a Jedi has nothing to do with having a lightsaber.
I don't think GL lost that factoid or his understanding of what a Jedi is supposed to be, I don't think that he didn't "get it" anymore. I just think, and I have maintained this for years, that he lost his balance and perspective when he parted ways with Marcia Lucas as she no longer edited for him and having the new producer guy, whose name I can't remember right now, come in and seem to be a complete yes man.
Look at the movies. He has the Jedi themselves saying they are arrogant. He shows them being arrogant, so confident and comfortable in their station that they think they can just waltz in waving their lightsabers and everything will go their way and be fixed. They are still relying on their lightsabers and how they believe the galaxy still views them, while the Sith aren't not only not playing with the same pieces anymore, they aren't even playing the same game.
It's like you said, the message is there, but there was no one there to say "George, pull back and focus on this." or "You are getting too carried away with this and it isn't that important."
I think the best example of this is in AOTC when Yoda confronts Dooku. You have these two larger than life characters, one a cultural icon and symbol of what the Jedi should be, in and out of universe, and instead of using this moment to show the power of the Force, he uses it to showcase lightsaber ability.
If I am an editor or producer I am saying, "Hey George, how about starting them off with the lightsabers and have them evenly matched there, so THEN they go at it with Force powers and that is where Dooku can't hold his own." The fanboys wants to see the awesome lightsaber fight sure, but that isn't what the Jedi are all about.
Now you can sit here and say, "Well Hav, that just goes to GL's message about the Jedi being arrogant, outdated blah blah blah, and since Dooku was also a Jedi, and the epitome of those traits, and Yoda needed to learn that lesson so that he could pass along the correct messages to Luke in TESB, it makes perfect sense!" and you could make a strong argument for that being the case, but it just ain't so. He went for the style over the substance.
It was one of the few pieces of bad storytelling in the PT to me (I'm not talking about the actual writing or dialogue) and an example of Lucas not having anyone around, to my knowledge, that would even dare to, let alone actually challenge his authority.
There are very few writers and creators that don't need someone else to edit/produce for them. Lucas IMO is not one of those few. I think that is why his best works have strong collaboration.
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But Dooku finishes his duel with Yoda by using the Force to put Yoda in an impossible position: stop him or sabe Anakin and Obi-Wan. Just throwing that out there.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
He TKed a pillar. He could have just as easily thrown his lightsaber at it. It's not an impressive Force feat considering.m
It shouldn't have been a struggle for Yoda to stop it either. It should have been just a quick thing for him to toss aside just long enough to break his concentration from Dooku so he could get away. IMO, the ball was dropped all the way around in that scene.
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Oh I agree, I just felt like pointing it out. The whole "we can't decide this on our knowledge of the Force but by our skills with a lightsaber" was something of a waste. Especially as in the Ot and indeed TPM you dont see Yoda with a lightsaber. He's the wise old wizard; wizards fight with magic not a fancy sword.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Bluescreen my ass, an actor is supposed to be able to stand on a shitty wooden stage in front of 500 people who are coughing and picking their noses and still make you think he's Julius Caesar. Actors who whine about bluescreen can suck it up and act.
Also, I'm part of the group that liked the prequels. You know, that "general public, critics, andeveryone except angry internet fanboys" group. Fuck the geek community anymore, there was a brief period where it was viewed as a tastemaker, but in the last few years all it's really done is get behind flops while helplessly gnashing it's teeth at everything successful.
As far as I can tell looking at the last few years, the way to make half a billion dollars is to find some nerd's childhood and then rape it.
Half a billion? Man, farming nerd childhoods will net you a cool Billion every time...once you make it palpable to the general public that is.
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DudeGuyMan wrote:Bluescreen my ass, an actor is supposed to be able to stand on a shitty wooden stage in front of 500 people who are coughing and picking their noses and still make you think he's Julius Caesar. Actors who whine about bluescreen can suck it up and act.
Because standing in a featureless blue/green void is the same as standing on a stage, yeah right. Acting on stage requires the actors to act more exaggerated simply because they need every last shmuck in the audience to get what they're doing. Not at all the same as filming in a studio.
Also, I'm part of the group that liked the prequels. You know, that "general public, critics, andeveryone except angry internet fanboys" group. Fuck the geek community anymore, there was a brief period where it was viewed as a tastemaker, but in the last few years all it's really done is get behind flops while helplessly gnashing it's teeth at everything successful.
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:Oh I agree, I just felt like pointing it out. The whole "we can't decide this on our knowledge of the Force but by our skills with a lightsaber" was something of a waste. Especially as in the Ot and indeed TPM you dont see Yoda with a lightsaber. He's the wise old wizard; wizards fight with magic not a fancy sword.
Their are numerous examples of fictional wizards using fancy swords. Gandalf has one. Harry Potter has the sword of Gryfindore. Wardens in The Dresden Files use them as well.
Also, the light sabre is an iconic weapon of the Jedi.
The Romulan Republic wrote:Also, the light sabre is an iconic weapon of the Jedi.
Ah but aren't some of the most memorable Jedi moments done without a lightsabre? Especially those involving Yoda.
I don't know if most people were really loving Mark Hamill awkwardly swinging a laser sword like a baseball bat when fighting on the skiffs. I mean, I sure remember that level from Super ROTJ but it was as fun as getting teeth pulled. I think that's where the fascination started to boil over into weird action scenes and even then, the focus on that particular scene in ROTJ is more about the chaos and ingenuity of Luke and his friends than lightsabre killan'.
DudeGuyMan wrote:Bluescreen my ass, an actor is supposed to be able to stand on a shitty wooden stage in front of 500 people who are coughing and picking their noses and still make you think he's Julius Caesar. Actors who whine about bluescreen can suck it up and act.
This seems to make sense to me as a layman, but on the other hand, most film actors have also worked on state (presumably most started there, even if it was only in high school), and yet a large number seem to hate blue screens.
Also, I'm part of the group that liked the prequels. You know, that "general public, critics, andeveryone except angry internet fanboys" group. Fuck the geek community anymore, there was a brief period where it was viewed as a tastemaker, but in the last few years all it's really done is get behind flops while helplessly gnashing it's teeth at everything successful.
As far as I can tell looking at the last few years, the way to make half a billion dollars is to find some nerd's childhood and then rape it.
I am happy for you that you enjoyed it, but I am not entirely certain how this is supposed to relate to the rest of the thread.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
VF5SS wrote:I don't know if most people were really loving Mark Hamill awkwardly swinging a laser sword like a baseball bat when fighting on the skiffs. I mean, I sure remember that level from Super ROTJ but it was as fun as getting teeth pulled. I think that's where the fascination started to boil over into weird action scenes and even then, the focus on that particular scene in ROTJ is more about the chaos and ingenuity of Luke and his friends than lightsabre killan'.
I remember, when I first saw TPM in the theaters, the first thing that stood out to me was how slick and "modern" the initial light-saber action sequences were on the Trade Federation battleship.
Compared to Luke clumsily whacking Jabba's minions with his glowstick, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan came off as serious fucking professionals. Obviously, this is to be expected I guess, since Luke was still basically an amateur (nobody really knows how experienced Luke was supposed to be at that point because nobody knows how long he was training). But the point is, seeing Prequel choreography for the first time was pretty incredible. After a decade of watching Luke and Vader awkwardly fumble around with their swords, seeing Qui-Gon effortlessly slice through countless battle droids with ease like a trained martial artist while deflecting blaster bolts was amazing.
I guess the problem is that as the Prequels continued, the movies became so saturated with light-saber acrobatics (with little corresponding emotional content) that by the time we get to the ending duel in ROTS, we're all basically numb to it. But I also agree that in the Original Trilogy, there was a lot more emphasis on the spiritual aspect of the Force (over light-sabers) than there was in the Prequels, much to their detriment.
I don't really think of Gin and Obiwan being really "professional." I mean the choreography certainly is, but in the end they effortlessly slice through useless opponents. There's no tension to those scenes. I don't disagree with the idea of showing the how the TF guys use basic group tactics, but the execution makes them look like exactly what they are: useless toys that the good guys steamroll until the better toys show up. You could probably get an NHL hockey player like Milan Lucic to skate rings around a bunch of 50 plus year-old pickup hockey guys and he'd look really professional but it'd be kind of sad to watch.
I figured most Jedi would fight smarter and not flashier. Waving their glowsticks at sluggish opponents isn't super exciting to me. What really gets me is how in the arena fight they all just run headlong at droids with guns. One guy jumps up to kill a bitch but just gets shot like a punk by papa Fett. Do you guys have any idea of what you can do? Two Jedi can push toys around and break them (I guess) so can't a lot of you do a combo force wave attack? Force chain super lightsabre throw maelstrom? Give me something here.
The idea of them being complacent and stupid in the old republic isn't a bad idea, but I don't think they meant to show this. It's too loosely defined in the movies. As a child I believed they were fighting to the fullest. Nowadays I know it's just some director putting glow sticks on screen in a flashy battle because he wants me to buy one.
That's not really a big problem though. Luke effortlessly (for the most part) carves a path through Jabba's skiff in Return of the Jedi and he rarely looks over stressed or under a lot of tension. It's the same principle in TPM with Qui-gon and Obi-wan. In fact, as much as I think TPM blows as a film, the sabre-play and the way the Jedi exude calm while waving their glowsticks around slicing off droid body parts felt really kickass to me and one of the film's true good points.
