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i think they're a bit more desaturated and kinda magic-looking you know

discuss

everything in the original triology was cooler

I loved the lightsabre Luke uses in Star Wars and Empire (i.e. Anakin's old lightsabre). Vader's as well is pretty boss. Obi-wan's is also cool, and I loved how Luke's new one in Return of the Jedi echoed it. There is a great sense of continuity there and how personalised they were.

But I don't think the effects were better in the old films. Bear in mind that I am pretty much a OT fanboy and prequel hater.

I think Mace Windu's purple lightsaber was bitchin'. Then again, maybe Mace Windu in general kicked ass and took names.

It's just you. The prequel lightsabers look like a useful and reliable weapon. The OT lightsabers look like someone had a seizure with the lightpen they are unstable and could short out at any minute. Not to mention they wash out everything else in the picture in close-ups.

the OT lightsabers are imbibed with meaning from the emotional resonance of the characters on screen as their ordeals appeal to us on a basic human level

the PT lightsabers do nothing to us because what we see on screen do not have anywhere near the degree of meaning imbibed into them because what we see on screen is meaningless

The OT ligthsabers are cooler, clearly showing whose who.

Vader uses red cos he's evil. Obi-Wan uses blue cos he's a Jedi and therefore good. Luke uses's Anakin's old Jedi sabre. When he builds his new one he uses green because he's the first of the new Jedi.

Windu uses purple because, well, he's motherfucking Samuel Jackson. Being badass is what he does.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:the OT lightsabers are imbibed with meaning from the emotional resonance of the characters on screen as their ordeals appeal to us on a basic human level

the PT lightsabers do nothing to us because what we see on screen do not have anywhere near the degree of meaning imbibed into them because what we see on screen is meaningless

You're so right about this. I remember in AotC Anakin losing his lightsabre and Obi-wan chastising him. He said something like 'This lightsabre is your life' to stress the importance of keeping it by your side at all times. And yet I didn't get that feeling at all from the prequels that lightsabres meant something.

Dooku's, Maul's, and Mace's are unique but they seem so in a superficial way. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing to have Jedi and Sith with unique looking lightsabres because it's the only real difference between them (they all have the same ability to cut through anything and glow in the dark). It's more that these characters have nothing special about them, hence the visual representation of their power is meaningless. Like, it's been said that well Sam Jackson is badass, so that's why his lightsabre is purple. That kind of nonsense just elicits a groan from me. The character himself is basically powerless - in TPM he does nothing but prattle on about how Anakin will not be trained, and when he's told that the Sith may have returned he just sits on his ass; in AotC he doesn't accomplish his mission of saving Obi-wan, Anakin, and Padme and instead he winds up leading all the Jedi he brought with him into a trap; and in RotS all he does he treat Anakin badly and clearly he distrusts him, and then he idiotically gets himself killed by Mister 'Unlimited Power' (primarily because he treated Anakin like shit). So frankly, the idea that Mace is some sort of badass because his lightsabre is purple just doesn't strike me as all that compelling an argument, at best it's a shallow one. The same goes for Dooku and Maul, and even Palpatine when he pulled out his own lightsabre (something which I feel should never have happened at all, nor should Yoda have pulled out a lightsabre either, but well that's just my opinion).

One thing I really wished that we'd seen, and it only just occured to me since this thread has made me think about it, there should have been a scene in the prequels where Anakin becomes a Jedi knight, and the only real ceremony for the occasion is that he turns on the new lightsabre that he created - the one Luke wields in the OT - in front of all the other Jedi masters with maybe a look of genuine pride on Obi-wan's face. That scene would have meant something I think, especially contrasted with the end of RotS when Obi-wan is seen picking it up and turning his back on the fallen Anakin. And we already know that Obi-wan hands the exact same weapon to Luke in Star Wars.

i will write a ninety biniminiminiminiminimunimunimunimillion page pdf screed against this

it will resist your shitty OT lightsaber blows

it is leather bound in yslarmimlinmi hide

and writteng in cotorocirrhosis

the yuuzan vajayjay vajazzle who wroet it will win the pulitzer mang booker ramong mangsaysay prize award

There's a great book about Windu called Shatterpoint. He actually is a pretty cool character.

Basically, the films can only be saved by going outside the films. The PT is just that bad.

The only thing I liked in the entire PT is the Battle of Coruscant in the opening moments of ROTS, with all its pew-pews and explosions and action scenes and interesting visuals of spaceships blowing each others. And it didn't even really make any sense apart from "Here is a battle, here is our hero, here is the the designated enemy ; watch what happen". I didn't feel engaged.
Note : I didn't feel engaged any one bit with any of the characters in the PT, and worse, for the whole of AOTC and ROTS I had only one desire and it was to reach through the screen, grab Anakin and punch him in the face - to tell you how much I found his character annoying (in a bad way).

For me, the whole PT was a yawn-fest.

Maybe I should rewatch the OT in light of the recent discussions ? I know that when I watched it I found it boring, but it was years ago, so maybe I have matured intellectually and will be able to perceive the skillful mastery of the audiovisual art that granted George Lucas his worldwide fame ?
... Or maybe not. More as it happen.

Rabid wrote:interesting visuals of spaceships blowing each others

No wonder it got that PG-13 rating...surprised it wasn't higher.

YOUR TURBOLASER IS SO...BIG!

Stofsk wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:the OT lightsabers are imbibed with meaning from the emotional resonance of the characters on screen as their ordeals appeal to us on a basic human level

the PT lightsabers do nothing to us because what we see on screen do not have anywhere near the degree of meaning imbibed into them because what we see on screen is meaningless

You're so right about this. I remember in AotC Anakin losing his lightsabre and Obi-wan chastising him. He said something like 'This lightsabre is your life' to stress the importance of keeping it by your side at all times. And yet I didn't get that feeling at all from the prequels that lightsabres meant something.

Dooku's, Maul's, and Mace's are unique but they seem so in a superficial way. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing to have Jedi and Sith with unique looking lightsabres because it's the only real difference between them (they all have the same ability to cut through anything and glow in the dark). It's more that these characters have nothing special about them, hence the visual representation of their power is meaningless. Like, it's been said that well Sam Jackson is badass, so that's why his lightsabre is purple. That kind of nonsense just elicits a groan from me.

People are obviously conflating Samuel L. Jackson with his character when they say that, like he's really Jules Winnfield sitting there in Jedi robes. In reality, not only are you right that the character is weak and ineffectual, but the performance itself is abominable. I fucking love Samuel L. Jackson as much as the next guy, so it pains me to say that, but he was awful in the PT. Very flat, and a lot of his lines, especially exposition, were delivered like he was reading them off a cue card.

That's true, he felt wasted in the role. I suppose he took the "Jedi don't have emotion" to be literal.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:That's true, he felt wasted in the role. I suppose he took the "Jedi don't have emotion" to be literal.

imma go ahead and blame the direction and the bluescreen, since those were enough to turn Ewan MacGregor and Natalie Portman into wooden dummies

Moved to a more appropriate forum.

Yeah, the Prequels did suck, etc, etc...

...but I don't think the lightsaber VFX were the problem. Let's admit it: in Episode IV, the lightsabers looked like total shit. And Lucas's endless restorations that appeared throughout the various Star Wars Special Editions and Turbo Alpha Hyper-fighting Champion Editions (whatever) often only made things worse.

In contrast, the lightsabre VFX in the Prequels were pretty consistent and well done, and the choreography was great, if a little too "rehearsed" at times. The problem, as has been mentioned, was that the actual characters who were wielding them were mostly meaningless and, more importantly, the duels were bereft of any emotional weight. I still think the duel in Empire is the best lightsabre duel ever filmed, even though the choreography is pretty clunky (witness Vader gracelessly trying to hammer Luke with his lightsabre) and the VFX were a bit inconsistent. But the atmosphere and tension in that scene is fucking amazing.

The lightsabre in the OT is a magic talisman that signifies you have magic (force) powers. However to become a master you have to learn to do without it. Obi Wan shows this to Luke quite plainly in the Death Star and was obviously only carrying it round as a warning, dont fuck with me I'm a wizard. Niether Yoda or the Emperor have lightsabres. Why? They don't need them. The only scene in Yoda's training montage in Empire where Luke has the lightsabre is when Yoda tells him explicitly not to take it. Luke eventually works out in Jedi that it's not about the lightsabre, it's all about him.

Now the PT is all about how the previous generation or younger versions didn't learn. Pulling out the lightsabre is often the wrong answer. Think about it. When in the PT did whipping out the glowy stick ultimatly make things better? They're a useful tool but when used as a weapon it's almost an admission of defeat. You have failed to use the force and have had to resort to violence. Palpatine is the only person in the PT to realise this. He loses the weapon and then has "Ultimate Power!" (and gains a useful minion). Why he picks it up again to fight Yoda later is a mystery, perhaps he's a slow learner.

This may be why the lightsabre duels in the PT feel flat, because they're all defeats / losses while in the OT at least Luke is leaning something and growing until he realises the truth.

The Force is not about the lightsabre, it's all about you!

RedImperator wrote:

Eternal_Freedom wrote:That's true, he felt wasted in the role. I suppose he took the "Jedi don't have emotion" to be literal.

imma go ahead and blame the direction and the bluescreen, since those were enough to turn Ewan MacGregor and Natalie Portman into wooden dummies

Was not Avatar also shot using a lot of blue/green screen element ? The acting seemed quite fine in that movie. I don't think the problem was reliance on new technology instead of old style sets.

I like both. And I say that as a total nerd for lightsaber visual and especially sound effects, for whatever that's worth.

The OT sabers (and I'm talking mostly about Special/DVD edition here) have a crisper, fuller sound to them which I like. They are very distinctive and heavy. Visually, I wouldn't say they're better or worse than PT sabers, just different. They look hazier and have a wider "fan" motion effect, which fits their OT sound perfectly.

The PT sabers, by contrast, are the other way around. Their sound is cleaner and lighter, and this is matched visually by their cleaner, more focused look. In a way, the sabers of each trilogy match their respective eras in a very fitting way: OT sabers feel 'analog', like vinyls and vacuum tubes, and PT sabers feel 'digital', like CDs and solid state.

Like, PT lightsabers feel cold, mechanical and emotionless, like the Old Republic and the Old Jedi Order

while the OT lightsabers, for all their defects and their rust, their imperfections, give emotions and feel kind of alive

I think he means you can backport meaning onto inconsistent FX.

Hey Stofsk his knighting (complete with dramatically-lit lightsabre ignition) is in the cartoon. The cartoon that is effortlessly superior to the movies, to the extent of having some no-name VA do a better Obi Wan than Ewan 'sleepy forest' Macgregor.

Well shit I was literally referring to the actual-factual effects/rendering they used for the lightsabers between the trilogies, but this is probably better.

Stark wrote:I think he means you can backport meaning onto inconsistent FX.

Well certainly not deliberate meaning, but the inconsistency obviously contributes a bit to the feel of the movies in their own way, even if unintentionally.