Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Eleventh Century Remnant
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Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

Link back to old thread is http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 4&t=156248- I think.

Right. In the Valdemironi temple looking at the cat's cradle of magic strung out over their altar, and the Ikhrani and the part and Lisanna trying to figure out what to do with it.


'The worst that could happen is that they could fall under the magic of the spell and start trying to kill everyone and sieze power. Bad enough? Ah. An idea. You have a, well, some people with you, don't you- who know and trust you as a person? Do you think you could put on a bit of theatre for us?

Bang might be bad. I'm looking at this and I think we're going to need to implode it, not explode it.' The senior of the Ikhrani acolytes explains to Bertram. 'If we just destroy it, there'll be a moment when it's spreading. I think it might be designed to take advantage of that.

I think we could pull off a quick ritual, enough to tease it out and weaken it for, ah, safe demolition. We'd need a kind of pantomime of disobedience...'

Lisanna doesn't agree. 'They're banging on the cstle gates now. Whatever you're going to do, it has to be fast. I think it would be better destroyed, but-'

the basis for Theology skill is either Logic or Creativity, btw.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Simon_Jester »

Larric listens to the priest of Ikhran, then smiles. "Just tell me who not to listen to."

He's planning to participate in the 'theater,' put on a show of stubbornness (since he is rather stubborn). Applicable skills: Banter, Oratory, and... Determination and Resist Persuasion are for actually resisting things, but can you use your native ability at them to create a suitably rebellious response to authority in a fictional setting?
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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"I don't know how much I am for play acting, but if that's the best plan we have I think I can gather a few of my regulars and see what we can manage."

Assuming he's given the all clear to gather his patrons he'll go outside, gather them up, and see who's up for a little playacting. Between leadership, inspire, and - if needed - con it shouldn't be hard to gather up a few people; maybe even some with a bit of skill at acting. With that done he'll rejoin the group inside.

"So, anything specific we need to be doing here?"

My relevant skills are likely banter, con, and persuasion but resist magic, resist charm, and resist persuasion could also come in handy.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

Leadership and Inspire are good, for the actual performance Acting would be ideal, but Con(at a penalty) would do. Larric's combination will work- it wouldn't get paying customers in all probability, but with a bit of cunning should be enough to serve.

I want to hear from everyone before I execute actions, though. Already it's been a while. Fiji, Kaelan?
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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OOC:

You know Kaelan better than I do, but experience shows that Fiji usually posts within about 12 hours of someone sending him a PM saying it's his turn. I'm going to try that again now.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Fiji_Fury »

OOC: Okay... I'm a little confused. What kind of theatre are we talking about staging here? The spell itself has no intellect or senses to deceive, so are we talking about fake-joining the Valdemironi host at the gates, then letting the Priestess who seems to have arranged this coup to undo the ritual or... what are we going to act out.

IC: "I agree with Lisanna I'm afraid. A ritual may end this most seamlessly, but people will die while that ritual is prepared. There is enough to be done in this place to rebuild without more death and strife, especially when some involved in it are completely unwilling and caught within schemes of a few. If deceiving the Valdemironi host will achieve a quick resolution, let us attempt it. If not... we had best get everyone clear and detonate this mess."
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

First, an in character response to an OOC comment; 'Um...not quite. It's more like the way an author or a painter leaves an imprint of themselves on their work, rituals, particularly complicated ones, do carry the mark and the cast of mind of the wizard or the priest, it's how you can tell- perhaps not so much an intellect as a set of instincts, formed in the roots of the mind of the caster. Oh, and usually just slightly rabid. In this case we would be trying to tease it just enough to get it to show its' fangs- so we know where to apply the brick of metaphorical dentistry.'

IC; 'Considering that they just made a major mistake by trying to do two things at once, we should probably figure this out...'

Lisanna is already doing things like defacing murals and scratching runes on the walls with the tip of her sword. 'I wanted to play with this, but I don't think there's time. If I'm right about the endgame, they'll have outsmarted themselves to the extent that it won't go boom the contagious way you think it will. Exactly the opposite, in fact. try it- begin to try it, at least- and if it doesn't respond, then the building comes down on it. There will be a moment when it would be advisable to run.'

'All right, a quick pantomime.'
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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"So, just to be clear, we need to act out hating authority? Or is it more acting out freedom of thought?"
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Quick pantomime?

"All right!"

Larric thinks back to a particularly annoying town elder he remembers from back in Peredburh. Short temper, limited judgment, pathologically meddlesome. A regulator born. And what would be called a Napoleon complex, to boot. He starts barking at the group Bertram's pulled in.

"You there, nobody move! If you're not moving, raise your hand! Now look left! The other left!"

Willing outwards on the wings of raw stubbornness: I am large, in charge and I make no damn sense! Why aren't they listening? How dare they!

There. That gives the others something to disobey.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Buying into things Bertram steps forward so he's fairly close to Larric, within easy range of a poking finger, and once he's there he proclaims, "Authority is earned not gained merely by giving orders or by birthright, it needs to be earned. Even magic can never be as effective as a respected man giving orders." He punctuates his sentences with little finger pokes at his acting partner.

Bertram's acting style is far more likely to be the equivalent of mugging for the camera and over acting than too subtle, but he figures that a gross caricature of a man's mind running a spell isn't likely to get subtle.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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"What? What? You're not listening! Come on, we've got circles to march in!"

Larric wills a push of confusion toward the ritual latticework, a 'this-isn't-working,' a sense of disruption and derailment and the futility of hierarchy.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Bertram also continues his railing against authority steeling himself against the lashing of the spell and trying to project a free spirited sense of defiance.

He doesn't break character when he calls to the others, "Choose a side tyranny or freedom!"
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Fiji_Fury »

Dale looks at the two as if they were mad (what they are doing isn't what he understood was going to happen, but what the hell... roll with it). He takes a moment trying to sort through how to act... and comes up with nothing. Sincerity will have to do.

"Stop this abomination at once!" he cries, stepping forward and gesturing at Bertram and Larric. "D'Nor take you damn it. These people need peace and order, not more madness."

Dale isn't particularly acting, except in yelling at them to stop. He's letting enough of his legitimate thoughts and feelings into the mix to hopefully tease something out of the spell by simply adding more disorder to the room expressing different ideas. Maybe it will work?
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

Things are afoot- I am still running XP, and it was upgrade time anyway, so there may be a small intermission while I struggle, curse, swear, scream, etc, at the new box- once it arrives. Possibly Kaelan might manage to catch up (I don't think he actually looks at the board at all, just navigates by bookmarks).

Right. The critics say...the problem with this is that the Valdemironi sincerely believe themselves to be right, and think in terms in which they are right. Which means that the basic conflict is between efficient, decisive order (them), and incompetent, blundering bad order (the Baron), with chaos- disorder- the penalty for failure. The ritual is drafted along those terms. Not surprising that the Ikhrani don't quite grasp the world in the same terms.

As the pantomime is played out, it starts to draw a reaction from the coiling flow of power around the altar- it flickers, bows outwards in the direction of, Larric first. Thinking like a baron's man. Bad order.

It turns out that mind control doesn't come with roadsigns. Done well, it's not greatly obvious that you're thinking a thought that doesn't naturally emerge from your own mind. Introduced slowly and gently, it might be possible to capture someone and mould them without their ever realising the fact.

Fortunately, this has enough rough edges- and there was a failed grasp earlier to draw conclusions from- that resistance is possible.

Bertram's performance comes out with more ham than a herd of pigs, and there is less there capable of resisting- a glowing connection forms between him and the ritual; Dale is actually closer in intent to the magic of the ritual, enough to pass for not an enemy, not a target- for long enough to drag Bertram clear and overcome the broken fragments of brainwashing that almost (but not quite) got him.

'Have you figured out enough yet?' Lisanna demands of the Ikhrani. 'How much more of this do you think we can get away with before it gets lucky?'
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Larric looks seriously rattled.

"Aaargh. That thing has NO sense of humor. We blow it up. Now."

He starts casting about- he's looking to make an artificial exploding goop out of surrounding materials using Substance magic. He did something similar as part of the triplex charge he created. Something waxy, carbony, candles maybe as the base? He knows enough formulae that he ought to be able to deduce something that'll work.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Kaelan »

OOC
First off - sorry for the so post response rate, work and home have been manic this past couple of weeks.

IC
Well, most of that went over poor Dirt's head (not intellectually, just the quick pace of an foreign language, but if acting is required with us acting like one of the numb-nuts in charge back at the castle...

Well, this spell is aimed at the foot soldiers as well as the nobility. Larric when high, Dirt's going to go low.

"So how we get out of this dumb job? All we do is go 'round. Here fight, cave fight, back to here fight. We need better Knight. Find better man for job who knows what is doing."
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

Still posting from the Kindle, 8.1 is taking some getting used to. Yay, you made it.

No, the valdemironi have no sense of humour, nor do most of their works- no great surprise there. On the other hand the Krylanyans seem to have a twisted, sadistic sense of humour, judging by how they precipitated the Valdemironi into their own trap.

Which does tend to reach out and grab those who prod it, and Dirt has just put on the equivalent of a 'come and get me' sign.

On one hand, remember the original purpose of the charade was to get the ritual to act out, to see if any point can be identified that can be used to safely and quickly unravel it. Phase one was a definite success- but it is very grabby, very contagious; so much so you might wonder if this was a contingency plan all along. That someone expected this kind of effort.

A more proximate concern may be that Dirt has just started to sway gently, and look very glassy eyed, as he plays right into the hands of the spell...
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Larric, feeling a looming presence distracting him from his assessment of the possibility of making homebrewed explosives from random objects lying about in the room, looks up at the increasingly hypnotized ogre.

"Oh, shit."

Larric attempts to drive a pulse of Insight into Dirt's magic-fogged head: Don't listen to that, it's a trap, it's a trick, cancel all that's been said, back away, go outside, things are under control, no need to start bashing.

He's hoping to rattle the spell's control, or at least weaken its grasp enough to give Dirt a chance of snapping out of it.

If it works, he starts frantically waving everyone NOT a magic-user, priest, or quasi-knight out of the room, and saying "we need to blow this up five minutes ago!" He resumes his attempt to use Substance to assemble an explosive substance from items in the room.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Fiji_Fury »

Dale handles Bertram toward the door and makes sure he's shaking off the effects of the ritual that touched him. As he firmly encourages Bertram toward the door, he turns and catches sight of Dirt.

"Oh, gods no."

Hurrying back toward the altar, Dale interposes himself between the Ogre and the ritual anchor. He looks straight into Dirt's eyes and speaks to him:

"My friend, no. Think not of order or disorder. Remember your drums (referring to the skulls). Hear their beat, join me and them. Come my friend, let us be gone from this place and its machinations."

If this has no effect he'll look sternly at Fifi and hope the plant recognizes something is out of control. Maybe Fifi can bite Dirt and shock him back to free-thinking status.

OOC: Dale means this earnestly again, but he's no expert at persuading others. He's not inept either (12 points - Persuasion), but I hope his words have an effect... otherwise we're looking at a rampaging Ogre, which will give the ritual more time to effect more of the people in the room... not mention the fact that I'm pretty sure Dirt can flatten any of us present except maybe Lisanna, and that's only if she's actually prepared against him. He's basically the hulk of our team here and we'd better hope a roll or two goes our way RIGHT NOW.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Bertram, head finally clear of the spell's fog, shrugs off Dale and says, "That was a nasty one..." Moments after that he adds, "It seems to attack those that directly go against it. If we were to dispel it the proper way, I'd guess that we'd have to slip in beside it and simply redirect the focus."

Bertram, near the door of the temple, hears Dale mention drums, so he bangs axe against shield in a slow steady rhythm.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Eleventh Century Remnant »

The dice did interesting things there... first post from new desktop, btw, slowly coming to terms with the Boxes of Meaningless Frustration that Microsoft call a user interface.


Larric's attempt to persuade Dirt with Insight nearly goes cataclysmically wrong- the magic running around the altar takes advantage of it, and instead of opening the Ogre's mind to the truth, the lie crowbars itself in there and rides Larric's spell into Dirt's head; hastily abandoning and retrying is all that stops the alchemist from accidentally making a convert. (20, reroll- lost count, need to call session and give you XP after this- second attempt a 7).

Dale, on the other hand, with total sincerity (a 1) manages to be completely convincing as he speaks with the tongues of men and prophets, and- combined with Fifi licking his nose- Dirt (who should know better, having witnessed enough svartalfven deceit and mind- invasion to not stick his head into things like that) is brought back to something resembling sanity. As close as any PC ever really gets, anyway.

Bertram makes helpful rhythmic noises, and begins the process of figuring out what all of that means and what to do about it. One of the Ikhrani replies 'That could take more time than we have to spare, with everyone affected by this trying to break into the Castle- how do we go about slipping in beside it without being in agreement with it? It doesn't have an unlimited amount of power, we could wear it down by letting it nearly get us and breaking free, repeatedly, but the odds of winning every time, as often as we need to- '

'We could twist the architecture of the building to collapse it in on itself. What that would do to the heads of the people already subject to it, though, would be only just a lesser evil. Warping the magic and the magic alone- to channel enough power fast enough as a field rite, whoever did it would probably melt.'

The unpleasant thought has clearly occurred to him that, to quote Flash Gordon of all people, "no, a rational transaction- one life for many." Larric is now trying to distil the pews (church benches) down to a wood alcohol based fuel air explosive, which with all the candles anyway- anybody got a better idea?
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Jub »

Out of ideas that might help Bertram can only add, "If we're down to bad options we may as well go with least bad and quickest and get this over with. Just tell me what you need from me."
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Simon_Jester »

IC:

The wood alcohol is going to be kept firmly in a large container, with a very biased wall of Air inversion-layer magic over it that won't let any fumes through. That stuff makes you go blind. And could go bang prematurely.

If no large containers are to hand, Larric's going to stop and use his large knowledge of alchemy to come up with something other than methanol that he knows will go bang under the right-wrong conditions. There's got to be something quasisolid in his repertoire. The whole original point of the character was that due to having poked around with his Insight-Substance hedge magic he actually knows something more about molecular structure and chemical elements than would be expected of anything short of a mid-19th century chemist...

After one particular surge of securing his own explosives* he says to the Ikhrani "what, exactly, is the bad part about making the building fall down?"

*I have a picture of Larric saying to some hypothetical chlorine elemental or other ghastly little thing, "By the power of laboratory safety I bind ye!" and you know, he might actually try to summon a chlorine elemental if he were better trained and very very angry...

OOC:

You know what? I think I'm over Insight magic. I literally can't remember the last time I've gotten any real use out of it.

Granted Larric doesn't have a lot of power in it, and that the rate of play contributes to my having honestly forgotten times I've been able to do anything with it. Still, it categorically does not seem to work worth much of anything as even a minor counter against illusions and mind-manipulation, and I'm really not sure what does, despite the fact that both are rife throughout our game world, especially in the hands of religious figures.

[Yes, I get that backstorywise the entire area of mind magic is supposed to be largely off limits, because of the Black Towers. But by that same argument you'd think that counterweapons to that would be a fairly well accepted thing; there would be if anything a proliferation of charms designed to stop people from manipulating you and enslaving your will. I suppose that's mostly covered by the priesthood and the disciplines of Resist Magic, but do wizards have anything in their toolkit for that?]
Sorry, I've had a hard day and am a bit exasperated and depressed in general, but I think the fundamental observation is correct.
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

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Hm. As far as Insight goes, there are the more I think about how to answer that point the more I think I may not have been fair and open enough in telling you, all the players, what does what. In this case specifically that it was always intended to operate more between the physical and the mental world, more alchemical shading to forensic- which Larric has got some use out of it in, in play and behind the scenes. It's part of the social- extrovert group, it might as well be subtitled "Eureka!", and it is really more of a probe than a shield. Its' fellows in the same power are Fire, Water, Happiness and Entity, after all.

The social introvert group, the Conjunctions, may be more directly applicable- Misery, Shadow, Dream, Doubt and Divination; better yet and closer to what he already has is Vision, under Wits, and that is definitely more mentally- psychologically related than Insight. And you are due quite a lot of XP, after the explosion.

But yes, tricksters abound- this is politics, after all- and the side with the most and best tricksters has such a definite edge that you're right; there should be charms, wards, talismans- this should be a threat that there is some defence against, rather than counterattack (frequently pre- emptive, at that.) There may be some slight retconning to come, too.


The methanol fuel air explosive was the first thing that came to mind, thinking about the furnishings of the temple; the answer the senior Ikhrani acolyte gives is that 'Because the altar may be doing for the magic what your air- wall is doing for those fumes.'

At which point Lisanna has an idea. 'When you blew up that black tower outpost with Aburon, you timed and phased it so it collapsed in on itself, didn't you?' she waves the green crystal broadsword at the runes she has etched on the wall. 'You know exactly what you're doing because you've done it before, then. So what's the plan?'
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Re: Homebrew system thread II, section 3

Post by Simon_Jester »

OOC MK I:
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:Hm. As far as Insight goes, there are the more I think about how to answer that point the more I think I may not have been fair and open enough in telling you, all the players, what does what. In this case specifically that it was always intended to operate more between the physical and the mental world, more alchemical shading to forensic- which Larric has got some use out of it in, in play and behind the scenes. It's part of the social- extrovert group, it might as well be subtitled "Eureka!", and it is really more of a probe than a shield. Its' fellows in the same power are Fire, Water, Happiness and Entity, after all.
Well, Larric's been trying to take that probe and use it like a lance, which may be part of the problem; he's not actually "strong in the Force" enough to do that. Although "hitting brainwashed people over the head with the truth" is about as Larric an action as could ever possibly take place.
The social introvert group, the Conjunctions, may be more directly applicable- Misery, Shadow, Dream, Doubt and Divination; better yet and closer to what he already has is Vision, under Wits, and that is definitely more mentally- psychologically related than Insight. And you are due quite a lot of XP, after the explosion.
Part of the problem here is that while some of the domain names are pretty clear-cut (Fire, Substance arguably), others are not so much. Again, one of those areas where someone who can actually read whatever rules you've written into the game has an advantage.
But yes, tricksters abound- this is politics, after all- and the side with the most and best tricksters has such a definite edge that you're right; there should be charms, wards, talismans- this should be a threat that there is some defence against, rather than counterattack (frequently pre- emptive, at that.) There may be some slight retconning to come, too.
Well, the privileged class may well be dominated by knights for a reason; they're the only ones with the mental disciplines it takes to resist brainwashing. Merchant-princes who lack the same discipline would be comically easy prey for mind-bending magics.

The point is simply that there are at least three or four gods whose servants routinely use mind-altering magic, often in ways that are not in the interests of (some of) the powers that be. Plus a rich history of the Authrani Empire's war against evil magocrats who used it even more lavishly. So yes, I think there'd be a pretty well defined art and science of breaking and resisting mental control, and at least a few of the defined domains of magic that you model as skills would contain such. In which case the question is simply which ones do you study if you want to be good at blocking mind control?



IC:
The methanol fuel air explosive was the first thing that came to mind, thinking about the furnishings of the temple; the answer the senior Ikhrani acolyte gives is that 'Because the altar may be doing for the magic what your air- wall is doing for those fumes.'

At which point Lisanna has an idea. 'When you blew up that black tower outpost with Aburon, you timed and phased it so it collapsed in on itself, didn't you?' she waves the green crystal broadsword at the runes she has etched on the wall. 'You know exactly what you're doing because you've done it before, then. So what's the plan?'
Larric stops, ties a knot in his pressure curtain, and looks up, rubbing his chin. He looks very deliberate for several seconds, then speaks slowly.

"I think... hm. On the mountain, there was Black Tower magic, bottled up and bound by the lords of the mountain. I hit the center of the circle first. So the source and storehouse of power was supposed to be gone before the things holding it still went bang. That threw the force against the mountain-lord magic holding it in. Then Aburon knocked the floor out from under the circle so the whole thing fell in on itself. Then we were thinking of another blast to wreck the controlling magic itself, but the explosion did for it anyway and we didn't have to."

"So here, if we try the same thing, I think we'd want to attack the mind-magic, make it wobble and start to fall apart, then damage the building, make the whole thing, the magic and the stuff both, too damaged to survive. Then let the push of the bottling-up magic war against the failing magic of the ritual. Then it should implode. Oh, and last time we did it from behind a rock a long way away, we should do it that way here too."

"Does that sound like it'd work here? If it does, we might want to start... there?" Larric gives his Insight/Runes/Thaumaturgy/Perception/Supernatural Awareness its best shot and points.



OOC MK II:

That was hard. Larric's tendency to not use technical vocabulary (or for that matter fancy words of any kind) in discussing technical subjects causes him to have a voice very different from my authorial voice...
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