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Star Wars: The Old Republic (The Thread)

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Pint0 Xtreme
PostPosted: 2011-12-14 06:41pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2004-12-14 02:40am
Posts: 2415
Location: The City of Angels
Knife wrote:
Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
When I get the chance to play tonight after work, I'll probably start on Ajunta Pall.



Hmm, isn't that a PVP? I'll be on a PVE.


A RP-PVP WEST server to be exact. :)
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Knife
PostPosted: 2011-12-16 01:08am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Posts: 14818
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Well... so far so good. The graphics are ok, game play is fun, story is great. So, Stark will hate it, but most people should love it. I rolled a Jedi Knight and leveled him to 10 and got off the starter world, then rolled a Consular and almost got her off the starter world. So, really just started but already had one 'flash point' mini instance, lots of small instances for class quests. Game play is fun, not a lot of 'kill 10 of these things' quests and those that there are, are 'bonus' quests that pop up with the main quest when you're in a particular zone. Money isn't an issue, thank god it's more like LOTRO than WOW in that regard. Haven't started crafting yet so can't tell yet. So far, I really like it.
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Brother-Captain Gaius
PostPosted: 2011-12-16 04:07am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-10-22 12:00am
Posts: 6658
Location: \m/
Definitely having fun.

I'm a little confounded by PvP, though. In beta, I played a bunch of PvP on my Sage, and it quickly became clear what I could do and what I couldn't, and performance was consistent and generally pretty good. Lots of damage output, clutch saves, some healing, and surprisingly good survivability.

Now I'm playing a Jedi Guardian and... I keel over dead in PvP if the enemy so much as looks at me. I feel like I'm wearing light armor when it says I'm wearing heavy. It can't be gear - it's almost all blue/orange and twinked with mods (I'm an Artificer so I keep my stuff pretty top notch). I do OK in 1v1 some of the time, but lose by a significant margin as often as not. In groups of players I just drop to zero in no time flat. How the hell is a heavy armor Guardian less survivable than a Sage?

Does anyone have much experience with the saber forms? For the most part, Shien seems to perform really well (much better than the shitty default Shii-Cho anyway), but is it really making that big of a difference in PvP? Do I have to use Soresu to survive more than five seconds? That would gimp my spec pretty hard.
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PREDATOR490
PostPosted: 2011-12-16 04:57am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2006-03-13 09:04am
Posts: 1416
Location: Scotland
If you are looking for money - Slicing gives you it in bucketloads as a gathering profession which also gives you schematics, new crafting missions and augments.
I am level 21 atm and have 70k worth of credits that keeps increasing because Slicing yields tons of money boxes.

By far the most rewarding and profitable leveling profession you can take until you reach endgame and want to go into a specific tree.
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General Schatten
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 02:48am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Posts: 5445
Location: Beverly, WV
Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Does anyone have much experience with the saber forms? For the most part, Shien seems to perform really well (much better than the shitty default Shii-Cho anyway), but is it really making that big of a difference in PvP? Do I have to use Soresu to survive more than five seconds? That would gimp my spec pretty hard.

Soresu is pretty much essential. Guardians/Juggernauts can never deal enough damage to match any of the other DPS classes so you need to focus on damage mitigation instead. If you're not using a tank build you've pretty much gimped yourself, they're all around outclassed by every other class unless you tank.
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Brother-Captain Gaius
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 03:16am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-10-22 12:00am
Posts: 6658
Location: \m/
lol @ two of the trees being non-tank then...

But that is what I've been noticing in PvP. I've been using Soresu and doing significantly better, though it's still a bit hit and miss.

Now I'm running into PvE problems though. Shien or Soresu, Kira seems to be more durable than I am in a fight. Anything with more than one silver guy + one regular guy, and I scrape by with about 10-20% health left afterwards depending on how much aggro Kira holds. And these are level ~28 dudes against my level 30...
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White Haven
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 05:45am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Posts: 6032
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
I think I mentioned this earlier. Tanks tend to slump in the late twenties to mid thirties or so. Their DPS is busy dropping off steadily due to points invested in non-hurty skills, but their survivability isn't really picking up to match due to the nonexistence of actual tanking gear, by and large. Sure, you've got heaps of endurance, but there's not a whole lot of absorb/defense and such around until the late thirties/early forties. Once you start to get a real tanking set, then your lower DPS becomes irrelevant, because you can actually outlast your enemies. It's just unfortunate that there's that slump in the middle, when you're too nonkilly to skullfuck things, and you don't have strong enough goggles to deflect skullfucking.
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General Schatten
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 06:03am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Posts: 5445
Location: Beverly, WV
Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
lol @ two of the trees being non-tank then...

But that is what I've been noticing in PvP. I've been using Soresu and doing significantly better, though it's still a bit hit and miss.

Now I'm running into PvE problems though. Shien or Soresu, Kira seems to be more durable than I am in a fight. Anything with more than one silver guy + one regular guy, and I scrape by with about 10-20% health left afterwards depending on how much aggro Kira holds. And these are level ~28 dudes against my level 30...

The Juggernaut/Guardian is best paired with the ranged healer that you should've picked up on Balmorra, for me that's Malavi Quinn for you that's Doc. Make sure your healer is set up so he'll auto-cast all of his heals. In a typical mob, made up of either Fodder or Silver enemies your attack chain should be your leap attacked followed immediately by your AoE damage/stun ability to pull threat so your healer doesn't pull threat, alternatively you can turn off your healer's ability to do anything but heal but sometimes his damage helps, focusing on the silvers keep pounding away and use your taunts if he does pull aggro.

If you're fighting mini-bosses (Gold) or bosses (gold w/diamond starburst) you want to lead off with the same jump/damage-stun combo as last time, except this time you're going to shift your focus on taking out the weaker guys first, be mindful of threat and if your pet pulls the mb or boss' aggro make sure to get him back to focusing on you (he should be able to handle one silver mob on his own without too much worry, but don't risk it). For the minibosses make sure you're mindful of your saber block ability that increases your defense against all attacks, for the bosses you probably want to be ready to activate the ability that automatically refreshes your saber block and gives you a minor regen.

The idea is to make sure you're the one getting hit since the more damage you tank with Soresu the more focus/rage you generate and the faster you can spam your high-damage attacks and so that your pet isn't wasting heals on himself. IIRC the Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernaut has a toggle that redirects 50% of the damage inflicted on whatever ally you target onto you, this is good for giving your companion leeway for damage. With this set up I was able to solo anything that wasn't Elite Quest or a Flashpoint.
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Broken
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 11:28am 

Padawan Learner


Joined: 2010-10-15 10:45am
Posts: 337
Location: In Transit
Man, I hope these server wait times are just because Bioware is trying to force people to spread out before the big wave of new players on the 20th. My wait time for The Harbinger, a West Coast PVE server which was chosen to be an "unofficial" Oceania server a couple days after I started playing, was over 90 minutes yesterday evening. Hopefully we are not going to see a repeat of World of Warcraft's launch, where they ran around buying every bit of server hardware they could to meet demand and hoping their servers didn't catch fire in the meantime.
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Mr Bean
PostPosted: 2011-12-18 12:08pm 

Lord of Irony


Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am
Posts: 20837
Word is they are going to start shutting down some server's ability to take in new players plus their are two new waves of servers due day of launch and the day after launch.
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TheFeniX
PostPosted: 2011-12-19 04:08pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Posts: 2063
Location: Texas
General Schatten wrote:
Soresu is pretty much essential. Guardians/Juggernauts can never deal enough damage to match any of the other DPS classes so you need to focus on damage mitigation instead. If you're not using a tank build you've pretty much gimped yourself, they're all around outclassed by every other class unless you tank.
WOG is that, unlike other MMOs, all classes will at least be viable as DPS at mid to late game. Guardians for example should only be about 5% behind Sentinels for end-game content. Whether they stick to this has yet to be seen.

My Guardian reminds me a lot of my WoW Paladin in PvP right now, when I made the mistake of running Ret for a while. The idea of a mobility centered melee class (rather than relying on roots and snares) is an interesting concept, but it just does not work when stacked up against the shitloads of DPS and crowd control that can be trained on you by other classes. I do pretty well for myself when running with our healer who can shoot me a few off-heals to keep me up while I go all "Waaah Jedi!" on people.

The issue with guardians is that you absolutely have to use your interrupts to survive many of your class quests and know how to swap aggro with your companion, as well as knowing how to stagger your defensive cooldowns and use stims and medpacks. It's probably the hardest class/spec combination to use in PvE. And it's ability to hold AOE threat is fucking abysmal right now.

White Haven wrote:
I think I mentioned this earlier. Tanks tend to slump in the late twenties to mid thirties or so. Their DPS is busy dropping off steadily due to points invested in non-hurty skills, but their survivability isn't really picking up to match due to the nonexistence of actual tanking gear, by and large.
I'm mitigating this through orange gear with mods made by my guild-mates and my survivability to pretty damn good. The issue is that boss fights with multiple non-CCable mobs are impossible for us with me as tank.

For example, the Sith boarding party fight for us on Mandawhorian Raiders is unbeatable. It's fine at first as we single-target down the first mob, but even our healer will rip aggro on the ranged and a single AOE from a DPS will rip all aggro from me with exception of the primary target. Force sweep does shit and is on too long of a CD, my taunts cooldown is ridiculously high, and I can't even make a tab-targetting macro to spread my threat around.

Single-target tanking is a breeze and I actually do a considerable amount of damage, making the fights even easier. But that means nothing if our healer runs out of force from having to heal the other party members halfway through a council fight.
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PREDATOR490
PostPosted: 2011-12-19 08:15pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2006-03-13 09:04am
Posts: 1416
Location: Scotland
The Flashpoints utterly fuck most CC since the bosses are immune to almost everything in that line. It makes being a CC focused Sage rather annoying. After this I did a retrain into DPS sage and its rocking beyond belief.

I'm trying to dual train Balance / Telekinetics and its working out extremely well.
TK Throw has no cooldown so I can consistantly keep someone slowed under a hail of rocks and every tick gives me 1% force power back AND has a chance to proc an effect that makes my NEXT attack instant cast + do 20% more damage.
Result: I can TK Throw to regenerate then slam out an instant Disturbance which ALSO when skilled will allow me to instantly cast TK Wave AND weaken mind can allow me to tick TK throw twice as fast AND when I get a critical my next 2 force powers cost 50% less force.

This is why you will no doubt see armies of Sages / Sorcs running around because the class is a rolling murder machine that can laydown instant AOE or focused DPS. Naturally the glass cannon aspect aplies but for the most part a Sage can mitigate that with Force Armor / Self healing or run like hell with Force Speed.

As for Mandalorian Raiders
All four of those bosses represent the 4 classes of the other faction.
I.E Inquisitor, Warrior, Bounty Hunter, Imperial Agent

Ideally, the Warrior is the one you want to take out because he randomly jumps from target to target and blasts people with a knockback. The rest become fairly easy once this dude is down.
We did it with three Sages and a Vanguard which wiped the first few times and then rolled through once we got rid of the warrior.
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Mr Bean
PostPosted: 2011-12-19 08:39pm 

Lord of Irony


Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am
Posts: 20837
Well pre-order access is done, the servers go live at midnight for official launch with 40 new servers since the 50 existing ones are already packed.

Well I've played the classes to 14-19 in Beta so I took the one class I go the least in Beta my Sith Sorcerer all the way to 32. I'm pretty well kitted out in blues and oranges of my level (Oranges are the custom items that let you upgrade it to keep pace with your level)

I'd have a thousand and one comments but in a word The Old Republic is going to be my MMO of choice. It has issues, half a dozen ones I can name off the top of my head (Lack of UI customization, Heroics are all over the place with some being soloable by anyone, some 2 mans requiring at least 3 people and some 4 mans are PUG killers, The Light side/dark side choices sometimes don't make sense and even speeders are slow when you get to the big worlds like Tatoonee and Balmora)

But there's enough content at launch to run through two stories per side and not see the same missions twice. If you track down and do EVERY mission on a planet you'll be half way out leveled for the next planet and some of the planets are binary choices where leveling up on Nar Shaddar for example lets you skip 80% of Balmora's quests or vice versa. Plus their are Bonus quests on the later (post 20) worlds that let you stay there longer if you like.


*Edit
Strong note, Flashpoints vary widely in quality with some of them (Athiss) feel very incomplete where end bosses are much easier than middle bosses. I saw Black Talon (Great intro flashpoint) Hammer Station (Good) Athiss (Poor) Mandalorians (Annoying) and I'm trying to try Mendar 5 or whatever it's called the mid 30's level one tomorrow evening if all goes well.
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Darth Quorthon
PostPosted: 2011-12-19 10:56pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2005-09-25 12:04am
Posts: 563
Location: California
Has anyone else found themselves reading the description on a crew skill mission and said "that sounds like fun, I want to go do that myself"?

Have to echo Bean's sentiment on the Heroics being unbalanced, I did one on Taris, I think it was Rakghoul release, that was marked 2+, with four players, and we had a tough time with it, and the group was pretty tight for a PUG.

I actually found the end boss on Athiss to be utterly annoying, but that might have been becasue the group was a tad under-leveled for it, and we couldn't find a proper tank. We ended up having my companion tank him.

Overall, I'm satisfied and enjoying the game, sure, it has its issues, as do a lot MMOs at launch, but the positives definitely outweigh the negatives. Now it remains to be seen if the game stands the test of time (for me, anyway).
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PREDATOR490
PostPosted: 2011-12-19 11:22pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2006-03-13 09:04am
Posts: 1416
Location: Scotland
I managed to slam my way to 35 today on a Jedi Sage TK / Balance spec. I played to 27 in beta with a pure TK spec sage so I skipped most of the bullshit story dialogue till I caught up. Saved me plenty of time.

Guy in my guild got to 50 within 3 days as a Trooper Vanguard which I have no interest in matching. Thats a pro-way to burn yourself out and that guy is now fucked waiting for the rest of the server to catch up to him so the raids can start.

I have to agree the speeders are just absurdly slow. EVEN the game taxis are slow and can take 5 - 10 miniutes to go from one corner of the map to the other on Alderaan because the fucking things follow the entire route of the road. Funny how your flying stuff that can FLY but they still follow roads and go UNDER bridges rather than straight over a mountain. Would be easier if they just had a fade out / in system for fast travel routes and make normal speeders equal tot he current taxi speed by endgame.

Flashpoints have been mostly easy except mandalorian raiders. That wrecked us in Beta cause we had one healer and no clue what to do however it is doable with a bit of brainpower and preperation.
Heroic difficulty varies wildly out in the field. Some of them can be solid while others are doable if you play it right.

Personnally, I find the world bosses more interesting from a theory standpoint. The one in Tatooine completely ass raped me before I even knew what the hell was going on.

You have entered a heroic area ? - Uhhh ok
Look a flashy skull that looks like loot - Oh cool
-You have summoned a world boss-
What the fuck ?

... and dead.

Note to self - Dont touch shit lying around

On the one hand it was pretty funny, on the other this kind of shit gets rather annoying and a few of the levels repeat this stunt of badguys appearing out of nowhere which effectively gives you 0 warning or chance to evade whats coming.
Just before the servers went down I got repeatedly raped on my story quest because the level kept bugging sending MULTIPLE waves of enemies at me from across the entire level and my companion's AI decided now was a good time to just leg it back to the start of the level to leave me to die or run to the end to drag even more enemies my way.


Story wise - Not very inspired and the morality system is typical white / black polarisation to make the Light Side / Dark Side easier.
I went for a Dark Jedi but the game really makes no mention of the fact my face is messed up like a Sith or that I am cutting down Jedi Masters left and right.

Gear Wise - Got the VIP Republic set from the Vendor and now I have a full set of orange armor. Bit underwhelmed in how it looks but thats a problem with the majority of the gear in the game.
The gear variety is extremely lacking and nobody seems to be making anything or selling it on the market which means no matter how hard I try I cannot find a red crystal for my lightsaber that matches my level.
I'm stuck rolling on gear so I can rip the mods out of them and slot them into what I want but good luck finding a red lightsaber as a Jedi.
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White Haven
PostPosted: 2011-12-20 02:23am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Posts: 6032
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
...Artifice? It's childishly easy to make a red crystal. If you don't have it yourself, get a guildie to make it. If you don't have a guild, then I really question why you're bothering to play an MMO in the first place.
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xthetenth
PostPosted: 2011-12-20 04:20am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-02-20 01:45am
Posts: 1166
White Haven wrote:
If you don't have a guild, then I really question why you're bothering to play an MMO in the first place.


Because you desperately want an actual sequel to KOTOR?
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Knife
PostPosted: 2011-12-20 10:36am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Posts: 14818
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
I'm guild shopping, My guild didin't move lock stock and barrel from LOTRO, so there isn't like a huge chunk of us to do stuff like that. Starting fresh, as it were.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it, it'll take some time to get crafting up and going. It's a bit different than WOW or other wow clones, so... So far, the cosemtics of the gear is quite nice, I like em. Granted, my main is 15 so... but the Peace Keeper gear looks rather nice, which is different from most MMO's that have some secret rule of making low level toons look like clowns with aweful color schemes, not so here.
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TheFeniX
PostPosted: 2011-12-20 07:49pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Posts: 2063
Location: Texas
Just busted my ass on a 12 hours day and was looking forward (not really) to seeing how stupid general chat and the Trade Market would be after launch. I would be dealing with that right now if I wasn't stuck in a fucking queue for the server my guild was put on. It sure is nice to see all those new low pop servers while I wait 30 minutes in this queue.

Holy shit, seriously?
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Knife
PostPosted: 2011-12-20 08:05pm 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Posts: 14818
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Yeah, not happy with wait times either, so redid all my names on a new server and spent all day getting my main up to speed. LOL, now, in Empress Tetra, I got a lvl 10 Guard and only 4 people in the Fleet. Was going to try Esseles but nobody would go, well nobody out of the 4 people at the fleet. So, I guess shit happens no matter what you do. Wait in a queue or wait in game for enough people to lvl to do flashpoints.
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Rahvin
PostPosted: 2011-12-21 07:56pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2005-07-06 12:51pm
Posts: 615
Between reading everyone's posting here and reading the official site, I really would like to give SWTOR a try.

Unfortunately, the fiance isn't very big on scifi. She loves fantasy, and so we've played WoW together to the point that it's old and boring, but she's so far resistant to the idea of SWTOR. She didn't even see the original trilogy until a few months ago, and while she enjoyed Empire, she was unimpressed with the others.

This is going to be a hard sell. And playing without her will carry all of the usual relationship friction of an addictive MMO.

Quick edit - since Im at work and can't look it up, are Jedi/Sith able to form groups together, or are the factions completely separate like in WoW?
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TheFeniX
PostPosted: 2011-12-21 08:01pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Posts: 2063
Location: Texas
Rahvin wrote:
Unfortunately, the fiance isn't very big on scifi.
My ol' lady reads Twilight. We all have our issues.

Quote:
Quick edit - since Im at work and can't look it up, are Jedi/Sith able to form groups together,
No.
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Mr Bean
PostPosted: 2011-12-21 11:51pm 

Lord of Irony


Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am
Posts: 20837
My advice to you Rahvin is have her play a Sith Inquisitor or Jedi Councilor if she's a fan of fantasy. Jedi pretty much are the fantastical in the science fiction. Besides the Sith Inquistor storyline involves forgotten tombs, Ancient Evils, Quite Modern and up to date Evils, Ghosts, Pirates, Horrors from the great Beyond and Overseer Harkess who you will despise and hate and one day have a chance to kill.

Even if your lightside, you'll kill that bastard.
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General Schatten
PostPosted: 2011-12-22 06:00am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Posts: 5445
Location: Beverly, WV
Mr Bean wrote:
Overseer Harkess

I never thought an MMO quest giver would elicit rage with just a mention of his name.
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White Haven
PostPosted: 2011-12-22 11:43am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Posts: 6032
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
Aaah, Overseer Harken. There's a saber blade with your name on it, even if I have to take darkside points to accomplish the deed. As an aside, the blue saber blades really fuck with people. There's always that split-second 'Oh, that must be a friendly' twitch in PVP, right before they double-take and realize it's a Sith behind 'em. Secondary addendum: A lightsaber igniting is the new scariest sound to hear from someone dropping out of stealth behind you.

My Assassin tank is up to 43 now, just finished out Artifice and Treasure Hunting. Archaeology is lagging behind a bit due to the lack of gathering nodes; it's outpaced the planets I'm on. Once I start getting the relevant mats, it'll be time to start spamming craftable lightsabers in the hopes of a critical proc so I can get a saber with an augment slot. Future characters will be simpler, once people in the guild have their relevant professions. Start the game with a set of crit-crafted customizable armour and just keep plunking new mods into it as levels permit. Should go a long way towards keeping future characters strong for their levels.

Oh, and protip: Get a new barrel/hilt off the mod quartermaster of each planet as soon as you can. It'll keep your DPS output tip-top as you level. Don't be my friend, who claims that mods are a waste of time, then goes 'NEEEEEEED!' when a tanking blaster drops in a flashpoint because he refused to keep his own gear current. In general, enough quests give mods as optional rewards th at it's quite simple to keep your entire set of gear relevant even if you don't know any crafters/are not a crafter yourself. Obviously that breaks down at epic level, because they are only partially moddable, but ah well, such is life.
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