World of Warcraft: Legion

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TheFeniX
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World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2015-11-06 02:29pm

Was there a thread for this? I searched, but found nothing. I swear we talked about some of this. Anyways, the WoD thread isn't exactly relevant, so here we go.

Leaked release date: Sept of 2016. Link now dead to image posted on B.net. Maybe related Blizzard no longer reporting quarterly subscriber numbers. I think the last report said 5.5 mil subs.

So, there's another... 10 months of no content and Blizzard isn't going to show the sub loss. Why are people still playing this game? Are they that tied to their characters? Will their toasters not run anything else? Do they not know any better? I couldn't last six month of SoO. It just got boring and I ground out all the reps and other shinies I wanted. I don't even need a steady stream of engaging content, but this is ridiculous. I'm tempted to buy a sub with gold just to post these questions on the general forum, but it would just devolve into a flamewar and/or get deleted.

So the plan of "shorter, faster expansions" was the bullshit everyone but the most deluded of fanboys called out as so. We're still on the same old time-table, but we're getting less content at a higher price. Blizzard is going to let WoW limp by with the least amount of work they can, but still make tons of money off a dated game because people just don't know any better.

Anyways, Legion: new class, new race, level cap up, probably some dungeons and a raid. Yawn. Legendary weapons for everyone. Discuss?

The good news is this, combined with the same bullshit from Squeenix with FFXIV: my MMO gaming days seem to finally be over. This is good because it's no longer a crutch for me to login to do dailies and other bullshit. Kind of a shame, but it's probably for the best.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby RogueIce » 2015-11-06 05:12pm

Maybe they're hoping for a boost from the movie.

Or maybe (ha ha yeah right) they're planning WarCraft IV in the interim.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2015-11-06 08:29pm

If they don't have some sort of filler raid up or get this out before summer, that's going to be a long content break, I think that'll be very bad. Also Blizz announced they won't be releasing subscriber numbers after [edit "wrong there"]their[/edit] most recent quarterly report (5.5M if anyone cares).

The big fix is dead servers, if they don't do some server consolidation they're going to keep bleeding subscribers. I just reactivated my account, (fortunately with a token) and nothing was going on, it's just not worth logging into a dead server, I just don't see some of those low pop realms maintaining useful numbers if something isn't done.

I don't even need a steady stream of engaging content, but this is ridiculous. I'm tempted to buy a sub with gold just to post these questions on the general forum, but it would just devolve into a flamewar and/or get deleted.


There are plenty of threads about disappointed fans "taking a break" til release date, there are always cheerleaders, but the September release date doesn't have a lot of defenders. Really all the pro-blizz fans have is stuff along the lines of: stop being negative, stop hating, if you hate it quit.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2015-11-07 01:08am

Gerald Tarrant wrote:The big fix is dead servers, if they don't do some server consolidation they're going to keep bleeding subscribers. I just reactivated my account, (fortunately with a token) and nothing was going on, it's just not worth logging into a dead server, I just don't see some of those low pop realms maintaining useful numbers if something isn't done.
Man, the few times I logged in with my starter account, I had no issues getting ganked in Redridge and Duskwood. Oh, you mean capital cities. Yea, Stormwind was dead. D.E.D. ded. Honestly would prefer it considering WoW will not update it's gameplay model. But CRZ makes sure the areas where you don't want to see -notmyfuckingserver, you will see plenty of -heyonpveserverandgoingtogankyouandorstealyourraresanddeposits.

The best is having opposite faction PvEers stealing your shit and being able to do fuck all about it. I mean, there's no point to professions either way, but it's nice Blizzard will continue to tell people on PvP servers to fuck off and only give them the option to pay money to get away from the bullshit.

Sadly, the only fun I had wrecking PvE player face was on my Prot Warrior in full heirlooms. My starter edition classes are Warlock and Priest. It's.... rough.

There are plenty of threads about disappointed fans "taking a break" til release date, there are always cheerleaders, but the September release date doesn't have a lot of defenders. Really all the pro-blizz fans have is stuff along the lines of: stop being negative, stop hating, if you hate it quit.
Yea, but I want a "Why are you still paying for a sub?" thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure more than a few are paying with tokens, but someone is still buying those tokens. I just.... I mean, I shouldn't be surprised when people will dump hundreds of dollars on F2P browser games... but I'm still surprised for some reason. Man, go hug your kids or something. Don't just sit around in your garrison admiring your shinies you can't do anything with because you're locked out of all the raid content by 9pm the day of reset.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Darth Yan » 2015-11-07 02:33am

Plotwise Legion looks interesting (the legion is back and deadlier than ever) and is ditching the faction nonsense. I wouldn't mind more time, since Cataclysm suffered for trying to cram too much stuff is. Maybe it will be a longer expansion. I mean Starcraft II is coming to an end with the final throw down with amon
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2015-11-07 01:29pm

I think long expansions with 2-3 content patches is what WoW players are getting from here on out.

As for Starcraft 2, Blizzard already has a Nova "Mission Pack" in the works for the middle of 2016. Looks like they're going to let Legacy run it's course, then start pushing small campaigns (maybe paid, don't know) and letting content providers in the arcade sell content.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Darmalus » 2015-11-15 02:13pm

Honestly, all the class previews feel like "We're gonna shuffle some numbers a little bit, then prune some more abilities." Even if they are just minor things, it just saps any desire to bother with the expansion. I don't care if an ability goes from 35% spellpower to 30% spellpower or whatever, and that seems to be the entire class preview.

Thanks to tokens my sub is paid up till 2017, but at this rate I might not even log in in 2016.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Steve » 2015-11-15 03:43pm

So the great WoW juggernaught is finally losing steam, eh?

Having just watched the Legion cinematic, it does certainly look cool.... but that's basically what they seem to run on. "Oh look all of this stuff is COOOL". And a world stitched together primarily with pop culture references and whatever else looks "cool".

Or maybe that's just me.

Anyway, I've not played the game since September 2013, and I've not been a subscriber since July 2008. Curiosity aside, my emotional investment in the setting is low and I don't see that changing.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Civil War Man » 2015-11-15 08:31pm

Steve wrote:So the great WoW juggernaught is finally losing steam, eh?

Having just watched the Legion cinematic, it does certainly look cool.... but that's basically what they seem to run on. "Oh look all of this stuff is COOOL". And a world stitched together primarily with pop culture references and whatever else looks "cool".

Or maybe that's just me.

Anyway, I've not played the game since September 2013, and I've not been a subscriber since July 2008. Curiosity aside, my emotional investment in the setting is low and I don't see that changing.


WoW's been losing steam since at least 2011. It's just much more noticeable since Warlords turned out to be an utter catastrophe. Blizzard burned a lot of goodwill with that expansion, so much that even sites notorious for claiming Blizzard could do no wrong didn't bother trying to defend some of their decisions. Shockingly few features announced in the previous Blizzcon went live, and not all those that did were released completed (new Blood Elf models, for example, weren't released until months after the new models for the other races). Endgame was anemic to the point of being nearly non-existent outside the raids, and even then there were fewer raids than any other expansion. It had a "major" content patch that seemed to add less content than some hotfixes. And on top of that, the game went live with bugs that testers were reporting since day 1 of the beta. A beta which, by the way, resulted in the longest content drought in the game's history by a fairly wide margin, likely because several zones were completely scrapped and rebuilt from scratch during it.

I think what really got to people, though, was the devs' attitudes throughout it all, since many of them were arrogant, dismissive of concerns, or incredibly passive-aggressive about the negative feedback. When someone complained about something that got cut during the beta, the common response was "We didn't promise you anything" (when they didn't outright lie and say "We never planned to do that" when there were pictures from Blizzcon of them announcing that they were). When someone complained about the dramatic increase in micropayments, particularly with stuff that used to be rewards for playing the game (like mounts and pets), it was basically "We're going to continue releasing them in the cash shop anyway, so deal with it." While FFXIV was getting ready to add flying, the Blizzard devs announced that they were essentially removing it from the game, only they didn't announce it until the end of the day on a Friday before a holiday weekend, which is universal weasel-speak for "We know you are going to hate this decision, so we're going to try to slip this announcement under the radar and hope nobody notices."

So yeah, it was a mess. And as interesting as Legion seems it could be, I don't have much confidence that anything's changed. I consider it a bad sign that with the latest quarterly report, they've announced that they are not going to tell us what the subscriptions numbers are anymore. That's not the actions of someone with a lot of confidence in their future output.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2016-07-20 01:00am

Legion pre-patch went live today. Holy shit son, you like abilities? You like utility? You like options? Fuck you. That's what you like.

I made the joke in MoP about my DK: "2-button rotation for Forst(sp)? What's going to change." That was because at my gear level, anything not Howling Blarg or Frost Strike was garbage.

Now, that's my baseline. Well, not really. It's Obliterates, Howling Blast on procs for Frost Fever, and Frost Strike. All runes are now just runes, so there's also that. Everything else is gone. Literally just gone, look it up. I logged into my Fury warrior and my entire main bar was gone.

The silver lining is some of the ability and animation overhauls. Warriors still deal with Heroic Path not Found, but the ability will not allow you to move it to a "dead zone" so, worst case, it throws you to the max range. This is shit that should have been in the game for a decade. Whirlwind is also no longer a 2002 animation, nor is Heroic Leap.

The costume tab is in effect. Just log in with you stuff and it's now added to a list. It's fun and all, but not content.

You play Heroes of the Storm? WoW combat is feeling like that. 4 main abilities with maybe the ability to spec into 1-4 more. It's really a joke and boils down to:
1. Hit this button for cooldowns.
2. Hit this button for single-target
3. Hit this button for AOE
4-X. Hit this for what little utility we'll give you.

Paladins lost a fair amount, but also kept a decent amount of utility. There's other changes, but my DK alone feels like the Heroes of the Storm guys said "what if we just mashed Leoric and Zul together?" BRILLIANT?

Important sidenote: Holy shit. Feel free to just fucking kill me right now. I know WoW has always done this, but I almost pulled a muscle rolling my eyes so hard.

I only know all this because JS had to get back into WoW and I would have passed but I had about 180k gold saved up for a token. Thankfully, we're just fucking around. I'm trying to get the Legendary staff for my Mage. Halfway through the Embers. He want's Shadowmourne. Good luck with blood infusion. Then again, if we get one more, my DK can handle a BRES.

He's now talking about loading up SWTOR due to the "host your alts in your battle-fortress" whatever deal. Man, I need more friends... or those that play more than Pokemon Go.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Grumman » 2016-07-20 01:23am

They took away so much stuff in the name of "Class fantasy," which is doubly stupid when the Druid class fantasy is to have lots of abilities spread over your various forms.

TheFeniX wrote:The costume tab is in effect. Just log in with you stuff and it's now added to a list. It's fun and all, but not content.

They also removed the ability to transmog any armour except your heaviest. My F2P paladin wears a Cloth hat because that's all that was available, but she can't pay to transmog it because it's not Plate.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Broomstick » 2016-07-20 09:13am

Frankly, with the usual whiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnne that goes up with every new expansion and the usual glitches I haven't seen enough to make a decision on this yet.

Of course, I'm enormously rich in-game (wish I was in real-life!) and haven't had to pay for a sub since the token system came out, and I enjoy things other than raiding and cutting edge min-maxing. Which might well be the majority of the current playbase these days. Things have changed.

Or maybe this really is The End and WoW is doomed - but a 12 year run for a game is still damn impressive. Being "down" to 5 millions subs is still a huge number for a game.

Yeah, I'm in the camp of "if you don't like it any more play something else". Or just stop playing on-line if that no longer appeals.

(A bit grumpy about abilities being change/prune soooo much, but I'll deal with it)
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-07-20 11:40am

Broomstick wrote:Frankly, with the usual whiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnne that goes up with every new expansion and the usual glitches I haven't seen enough to make a decision on this yet.

Of course, I'm enormously rich in-game (wish I was in real-life!) and haven't had to pay for a sub since the token system came out, and I enjoy things other than raiding and cutting edge min-maxing. Which might well be the majority of the current playbase these days. Things have changed.

Or maybe this really is The End and WoW is doomed - but a 12 year run for a game is still damn impressive. Being "down" to 5 millions subs is still a huge number for a game.

Yeah, I'm in the camp of "if you don't like it any more play something else". Or just stop playing on-line if that no longer appeals.

(A bit grumpy about abilities being change/prune soooo much, but I'll deal with it)

What I've played in the Legion Beta there seems to be enough things to do outside of order halls and raiding but I've yet to have max level character so I'm not 100% on that (I only got beta access recently).
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Crown » 2016-07-20 11:52am

A couple of things;
  1. DO NOT DELETE ALL YOUR GEAR, the wardrobe feature isn't at 100% yet according to a thread on /r/wow that referenced a Blizzard tweet. So hold off until later before you go on a bank cleaning spree (or test it thoroughly before selling stuff)
  2. This is the pre-patch not Legion so the ability prune is devastating but we're missing the artifacts which give some more flavour back to some specs (not all unfortunately)
  3. Everything I've heard from professional neck-beards who absolutely loathed WoD gives me hope that Legion will actually fix a lot of the things WoW dropped the ball on (but we were all burned with WoD so I'm not going into hypemode)
  4. Fury Warrior's animations and sounds are fucking GLORIOUS :)
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Broomstick » 2016-07-20 12:00pm

Finally used my Level 90 Upgrade just before this patch on a rogue I've had for a loooong time, leaping from 40 to 90. It's been a bit buggy (for some reason I can't get poisons to work) but I actually like the new "Outlaw" rotation I've worked out.

Meanwhile, my tailors are all making a killing on selling shirts on the AH. I've made over 5000 gold so far since the patch went live.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2016-07-20 12:03pm

Grumman wrote:They took away so much stuff in the name of "Class fantasy," which is doubly stupid when the Druid class fantasy is to have lots of abilities spread over your various forms.
"Cmon Bro, but you gots a talents that makes you a really shitty version of another spec." Honestly, can't stand 3 of the Druid specs but Resto is balls-out fun. Though a lot of that fun did get axed recently.

Only Holy Pallies get Light's Hammer now and I can't fucking stand Holy (to play, the heals are beast). So my Prot/Ret pally gets shit even if he can now spec Holy any time he wants.

Blizzard also confirmed for knowing 99% of DK players are brain-dead and they have finally removed all the pretense. Frost has always been easy and I used to call it brain-dead. I don't know what to call it now: "comatose with a few hand spasms?" I'm pretty sure I could make a single-button macro and do at least 80% of the DPS a Frost DK is capable of. With two, it's probably 95%.

They also removed the ability to transmog any armour except your heaviest. My F2P paladin wears a Cloth hat because that's all that was available, but she can't pay to transmog it because it's not Plate.
I get the reasoning. It would suck to let plate have all the mog options, aside from class specifics, and everyone else deal with a sliding scale of "you get nothing."

Another silver lining, I was able to save my pretty boss plate-mog for my Warrior and load up the joke slut mog I had, based on drops I had found, for like 20 gold. CLASS FANTASY! Too bad I sold some of the other piece for AH gold. I could have sold them all, but I didn't know they were worth money.

I am totally going to put together a Red Sonya mog when I have the time to dig through the costume tab more. Because Fury feels and looks great now. Had plans to play more Frost Mage, but that shit is all "You like Frostbolt? Better assign it to multiple keys to feel like you have a rotation."

That's really all it is except 2 buttons for AOE (3 if you talent) and then you PRESS SHINY BUTTON at certain intervals.

Broomstick wrote:Or maybe this really is The End and WoW is doomed - but a 12 year run for a game is still damn impressive. Being "down" to 5 millions subs is still a huge number for a game.
Those Doom and Gloom people are the worst, but this change is one I don't think is for the better. They've removed or shifted around a lot of iconic and just cool stuff and that annoys me.

I think it was 4.0. Whatever patch was release pre-cata at the end of WotLK. Those pallies that complained about the changes, especially to Prot, were just "all changes are bad" morons. Same with people who bitched about Prot stacking Haste based on changes. It made prot even MORE FUN to play because your rotation now kept you alive, rather than just build threat.

Now, a whole metric load of that shit is gone. The only choice you have to make for Paladins and Warriors in DPS, as far as I can see, is using your "Hulk Smash" ability that, without speccing into, uses up all your resources (either 5 Holy Power or 100 Rage) or just doing a basic 2-3 button single-target or AOE rotation. It's moving towards a very simple priority system with few cooldowns. Ok..... it's always kind of been that, but they're basically simplifying what was already a Fisher-Price piano.

Here's a cheap shot: My "Stats" tab. Most bolded and important looking stat? Item Level.

And the changes to glyphs? Holy fuck. Way to complicate a perfect system. I can't even know what glyphs are available anymore. We've gone back to pre-glyph tab and that's just moronic. Blizzard always fixing what ain't fucking broke.

BUT, I got all my toys (though this isn't new) ACROSS ALL MY CHARACTERS! Slyvannas' Music Boxes for everyone! Worked my ass off for that and it's nice that I no longer lose my "annoy the raid" abilities when not on my DK.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Broomstick » 2016-07-20 12:13pm

Well, hell, I'm still pissed off at settling the goblins in Azshara because I loved the original version of that zone. Yes, yes, I know I'm in a minority but I still feel like they let a bunch of drunken frat boys commercially develop a national park and then piss in the punch bowl.

On the other hand, keeping the game too static would not have been good, either. The fact that the game world has actually changed over time is one of the interesting things about the game. (Anyone else see that the park in Stormwind has been rebuilt? I like the waterfalls.) Not every change is going to work well, but if I'm still interested after all this time they can't all have been bad, either.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-07-20 12:13pm

Seems like EU Battle.net is down, really hope it's just technical issues (best would be technical issues at my end) and not some 15 year old DDOSing the servers to "be cool".
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2016-07-20 12:15pm

Even whatever battle group Naz/Manno/Blood Furnace is on had some issues last night. Lot of lag comments in Trade and people getting DCed. I had no issues though, but things did seem to be taking longer to load than usual. I may have to put WoW back on my SSD.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Zwinmar » 2016-07-20 12:20pm

Oh, you get the transmog for Lanestor's blade, its a pole arm. Other than that? Well, they have pruned way to much, gotten rid of too much stuff people have worked for.

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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-07-20 12:22pm

well it's back up now but I'm stuck with the patch installation and if I try to boot the game it gets stuck too.
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2016-07-20 12:40pm

Broomstick wrote:Finally used my Level 90 Upgrade just before this patch on a rogue I've had for a loooong time, leaping from 40 to 90. It's been a bit buggy (for some reason I can't get poisons to work) but I actually like the new "Outlaw" rotation I've worked out.
I still need to use my 90 boost from when I bought Warlords (and never played it). I boosted a Mage to 80 (no idea where that boost came from), but I have every class I care to have. Hunter, Warlock, and Priest don't interest me. I'm considering boosting my Horde Pally just to see the other side. Though for that, a Mage might be a better bet due to the teleports.

Meanwhile, my tailors are all making a killing on selling shirts on the AH. I've made over 5000 gold so far since the patch went live.
I need to raid our guild bank for all the old cloth I have and do the same. But I really don't need the money and don't know if I care to even buy Legion, so after beating WoD, what's the point of hanging around? Wish I had done some more BC stuff because their crafted robes are nice, but crafted gear actually meant something back then so it took a lot of mats that were annoying to get. Now it's like "click this once a day, in X days, here's your shiny."

Maybe Warrior could keep me around. It's just.... fun now. But the idea of "raid or die" again. Ugh. And the Warrior Artifact swords look terrible. Definitely don't want Ashbringer either. Forst isn't bad but... more Frost.

Gerald Tarrant
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2016-07-20 02:24pm

Well, that was disappointing, healing is incredibly boring, worked my way through both priests and took a stab at pally and druid healing. No thanks, not enough buttons or interesting choices. I just canceld my subscription, and I'm probably not going to get the expansion. It's too bad; there's a lot of fun stuff still but the "class fantasy" pruning nonsense leeched any interest out of the core gameplay.
The rain it falls on all alike
Upon the just and unjust fella'
But more upon the just one for
The Unjust hath the Just's Umbrella

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TheFeniX
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby TheFeniX » 2016-07-25 05:16pm

So, all the gold missions are gone. Not a huge deal since I doubt I'll ever get up enough to make the big bucks in time. But upgrading the Garrison is still stupidly expensive. This is quite annoying. Been making money selling bags and illusion tomes. Holy shit: Inscription got fucking gutted! Glyphs are just..... dead. I thought I'd have to learn a bunch of new ones or something, but each tier is "You already know all these glyphs."

So, I got into a dungeon at level 92. Iron Docks. Went Frost DK to learn it. Tank gets D/Ced. "Guess you're tanking FeniX."
"Shit, hold on..... my bar is empty. hold on.... ugh... whatever. Let's go."
"Holy shit dude, you're taking like no damage. Just pull everything to the next boss."
"It's not me, it's the gear. I'm literally just pressing buttons."
"Holy shit, you are geared."

MMOs are a terrible place to tell emotional stories. Ok so, Samara (Yrel's sister): you meet her once, and move on. She gets kidnapped. You move on. She gets soul-sucked or whatever and Yrel is emotional. First off, none of this is shocking: you see it coming from 50000 miles away. Second, it's hard to even feel sorry for either character because there's just no build-up. In fact, I lied because, and I hate giving credit to Bioware, SWTOR had VILLIANS that I had more emotional attachments to than Samara, who exists as a plot token for Yrel's character. SWTOR knew how to tell emotional stories. Many were hit or miss, but at least they were solid attempts.

And I can't remember the last time I just straight up whooped some named character's ass in WoW. There's always some bullshit "plan that was never going to work didn't work." So that we can keep the same names in our stories. SWTOR let you interact with assholes, then whoop on said asshole because that makes the player feel good because they actually accomplished something.

I didn't even save Karabor. Velen just dove into the darkness and did it for me. It's so tiring in WoW to actually accomplish so little as a character. Man, I wish SWTOR wasn't such shit. At the least "Jedi Knight FeniX" felt like a badass who got shit done. Not the player alone, while my character is shunted to the side constantly.

At the least, the Prot Pally and Blood DK overhauls feel kind of nice. They are going way idiot proof, but they feel ok. I'm still on the fence about Ret. Frost DK is moronic, but at least it looks and sounds like you're doing something now. The Frostscythe talent is one-button cleave-king, but it also sounds cool. Blizz should REALLY think about making your weapons despawn until the animation is done. Looks dumb.

It's also funny to read the forums. I forget sometimes how long ago Cata was. Kids complaining about hard Timewalking dungeons are so cute.

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Broomstick
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Re: World of Warcraft: Legion

Postby Broomstick » 2016-07-25 08:04pm

TheFeniX wrote:So, all the gold missions are gone. Not a huge deal since I doubt I'll ever get up enough to make the big bucks in time. But upgrading the Garrison is still stupidly expensive.

The cost of crafting resources at the garrison trading post just got stupidly expensive - jumping from 8 resources to 24, for example. That's a pisser...
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid. - Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice


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