Breaking: Active Shooter at Fort Lauderdale Airport

[Gaidin]

[img]https://www.floridacarry.org/images/sto ... ap.gif[img]

Airport CCW carry map. Amusing to see that VA, that supposed hotbed of GUNZ doesn't allow it, but MD does.

Be a good boy and respond to how he got the gun through to baggage.

[General Zod]

[img]https://www.floridacarry.org/images/sto ... ap.gif[img]

Airport CCW carry map. Amusing to see that VA, that supposed hotbed of GUNZ doesn't allow it, but MD does.

Be a good boy and respond to how he got the gun through to baggage.

You realize that baggage is before any security checkpoints, right? When was the last time you were at an airport?

[Mr Bean]

I was coming here to make a point but Zod beat me to it.

Literal no law would stop this type of shooter if he was willing to shoot up his local airport as opposed to a distant one. 90% of airport baggage areas open directly onto the taxi stand/rental car areas. AKA anyone can simply drive up get out and get shooting.

[Gaidin]

You realize that baggage is before any security checkpoints, right? When was the last time you were at an airport?

So? TSA has methods for checking your gun on to your checked baggage. You follow the rules the weapon flies with you. He picked up his bag he went to the bathroom he loaded the weapon he walked right out.

Do. The. Math.

[General Zod]

You realize that baggage is before any security checkpoints, right? When was the last time you were at an airport?

So? TSA has methods for checking your gun on to your checked baggage. You follow the rules the weapon flies with you. He picked up his bag he went to the bathroom he loaded the weapon he walked right out.

Do. The. Math.

I have no idea what you're actually arguing then.

[Lonestar]

So? TSA has methods for checking your gun on to your checked baggage. You follow the rules the weapon flies with you. He picked up his bag he went to the bathroom he loaded the weapon he walked right out.

Do. The. Math.

He legally checked the gun, and when he arrived he picked it up and went to the bathroom and loaded it.

I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say here. It wasn't like a it was a great mystery how he did it. TSA lets you travel with loaded mags, they just can't be loaded into the gun.

[Gaidin]

He legally checked the gun, and when he arrived he picked it up and went to the bathroom and loaded it.

I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say here. It wasn't like a it was a great mystery how he did it. TSA lets you travel with loaded mags, they just can't be loaded into the gun.

I'm telling shepphard to drop the red herring and for some reason people are getting on my case. They're missing the flight from Anchorage.

[General Zod]

He legally checked the gun, and when he arrived he picked it up and went to the bathroom and loaded it.

I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say here. It wasn't like a it was a great mystery how he did it. TSA lets you travel with loaded mags, they just can't be loaded into the gun.

I'm telling shepphard to drop the red herring and for some reason people are getting on my case. They're missing the flight from Anchorage.

So far he isn't actually saying much of anything, and he's already been called out on it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

He legally checked the gun, and when he arrived he picked it up and went to the bathroom and loaded it.

I mean, I don't know what you're trying to say here. It wasn't like a it was a great mystery how he did it. TSA lets you travel with loaded mags, they just can't be loaded into the gun.

I'm telling shepphard to drop the red herring and for some reason people are getting on my case. They're missing the flight from Anchorage.

They are getting on your case because you are basically me-tooing, they dont see the point, so they are trying to make sense of your statement in light of the fact that you are superfluous and supernumerary.

[MKSheppard]

Amusingly enough this happened in a state that doesn't allow CCW guns into airports; but amusingly, Maryland does.

A pretty moot point as anybody can follow current rules and do what he did in any state. CCW guns allowed in airports or not. He didn't exactly shoot that many rounds as he didn't bring that many.

Or as Mr Bean pointed out earlier/later; he could just walk in from the street and open fire.

I think you are all reading too much into my post; when I stated in my original post "amusingly enough", which should be some clue as to my intent for the post -- because it's not often you find Maryland having a better firearm law than either Florida or Virginia (albeit on a narrowly focused issue).

Somewhat related to this was that before this shooting; Florida Lawmakers were working on a bill called SB 140 which would have legalized CCWing at Florida Airports (among other places) -- LINK to news article on the 4th regarding SB 140.

A pretty moot point as anybody can follow current rules and do what he did in any state.

More to the point, any attempt to "close" this "loophole" that he exploited would be fought by the sporting/hunting/competition industry -- because there's very specific and valid reasons to travel with both firearm and ammunition for said firearms -- for example, you have a custom rifle in a rare caliber, or you have specifically handloaded ammunition for that weapon (something a lot of exotic hunters or competition shooters do) for maximum performance during your event.

As to concealed carry in these situations it would be a very hazardous thing to do. Plain clothes police get shot responding to incidents all the time by colleagues in the US. Being a private citizen carrying would be worse as you have no coordination with law enforcement and other citizens could very well confuse a CCW permit holding person with an active shooter. Even if they aren't waving a gun around just seeing a gun holstered could lead to 911 calls saying the CCW holder is now a suspicious person hiding a gun at the site of a mass shooting.

I've seen this argued on gun boards, and the rough consensus is:

• Leave the area ASAP. If you happen to run across the shooter(s), shoot at him/them; but don't actively hunt down and and engage them.
• With your family / Have a family? Your top priority is getting family out safely. Everyone else is responsible for themselves.
• If you end up in an atypical large scale mass shooting with multiple shooters such as an African style mall assault; get yourself and the general group of people around you out safely, then leave.

All that said in a lot of cases mass shooters often kill themselves when confronted by force so more CCW holders around might be able to stop a shooter even if they don't shoot the shooter themselves.

This is actually a point that needs to be made more. This breaks the "Fantasy revenge logic" chain that most spree/suicide shooters have and they default to the final endpoint - suicide.

[General Zod]

I think you are all reading too much into my post; when I stated in my original post "amusingly enough", which should be some clue as to my intent for the post -- because it's not often you find Maryland having a better firearm law than either Florida or Virginia (albeit on a narrowly focused issue).

So quit being a smarmy prick, use your grownup words and actually explain what you mean so we don't have to read into anything.

[MKSheppard]

Also, has anyone commented on the perp's run ins with the authorities before this?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017 ... w/96342512

Santiago then moved to Alaska where he repeatedly confronted law enforcement. From January to October of 2016, he encountered Anchorage Police at least five times.

He was arrested and charged with criminal mischief following a "physical disturbance" with his girlfriend in January and was re-arrested for violating an order to stay away from their apartment the next month. But he was not arrested following three other calls. Police said each time that they could not establish probable cause.

Mental health problems

Santiago's erratic behavior escalated in November when he walked into the FBI office in Anchorage complaining that "his mind was being controlled by a U.S. intelligence agency."

FBI officials confiscated the gun he had in his car and sent him to local police, who sent him to get a mental health evaluation. He was cleared, and the FBI closed its file on him and returned his handgun.

So to sum it all up, we have Domestic Violence Guy (Lautenberg Amendment anyone?), who violates restraining orders; and unsettles the FBI enough that they Code 5150 him to a hospital; yet he's a free range individual?

[Gaidin]

Amusingly enough this happened in a state that doesn't allow CCW guns into airports; but amusingly, Maryland does.

A pretty moot point as anybody can follow current rules and do what he did in any state. CCW guns allowed in airports or not. He didn't exactly shoot that many rounds as he didn't bring that many.

Or as Mr Bean pointed out earlier/later; he could just walk in from the street and open fire.

I think you are all reading too much into my post; when I stated in my original post "amusingly enough", which should be some clue as to my intent for the post -- because it's not often you find Maryland having a better firearm law than either Florida or Virginia (albeit on a narrowly focused issue).

Somewhat related to this was that before this shooting; Florida Lawmakers were working on a bill called SB 140 which would have legalized CCWing at Florida Airports (among other places) -- LINK to news article on the 4th regarding SB 140.

It means jack shit because never are you guaranteed to find someone with a CCW and carrying in an airport anywhere near where something like THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION is happening. Or guess what, he can walk somewhere else outside high security. Restrooms are everywhere. Do you know how big airports are? And do you know how fast the average person making full use of the airport has to divest themselves of the firearm? Only the person picking up the flyer will have the firearm and odds are he's sitting in a car outside.

Ok Sheppard. Roll your god damn dice.

[MKSheppard]

Ok Sheppard. Roll your god damn dice.

It got rolled and happened in Arizona today:

Link

An armed passerby fatally shot a suspect who had opened fire on a trooper in an apparent ambush attack as the law enforcement officer, who was responding to a shots fired call, stopped to investigate a car crash along Interstate 10 near Tonopah on Thursday.

The incident started shortly before 4:30 a.m. with a 911 call from a driver east of California who said somebody shot at his car from the median, television station KPHO in Phoenix reported.

According to Col. Frank Milstead, the director of DPS, the trooper was responding to the shots fired call when he came upon a single-vehicle rollover wreck near Tonopah. A woman had been ejected from that vehicle.

The trooper immediately stopped and began laying out flares.

DPS Capt. Damon Cecil said the trooper — a 27-year-veteran of the agency — was ambushed by the suspect when he got out of his vehicle at the scene of the rollover. The trooper was shot and wounded.

“A physical fight between our trooper and that suspect then ensued, at which time the suspect was shot and killed,” Cecil said. “Right now that’s all we have. This is a fluid investigation.”

Milstead, speaking from the hospital to which his trooper and taken, said an “uninvolved third party” who was driving by saw the trooper grappling with the suspect and stopped to help, eventually shooting and killing the suspect.

That civilian, using the wounded trooper’s radio, was the one who alerted DPS to the shooting.

Some details are that the passerby was driving with his family to Cali, saw the suspect beating on the trooper (as in slamming the trooper's head into the pavement), stopped the car, got his gun and ordered the suspect to COMPLY. When suspect didn't comply, passerby shot suspect fatally and then used the trooper's radio to call it in.

The dice rolled and came up snakes again in November 2016 in Fort Meyers FL:

Link

A Good Samaritan with a concealed carry permit shot a man who was attacking a Lee County deputy on an I-75 off-ramp Monday morning.

After the good Samaritan had his gun confiscated by the crime scene boys; the Sheriff's Department in question took the Good Samaritan down to a big local gunstore and got him a new handgun on the spot.

Statistically speaking, the odds of armed people just happening by at that moment deputies are getting their ass beat is pretty low, but it's happened twice so far that I know of in three months; so the same odds also apply at airports.

[Gaidin]

Some details are that the passerby was driving with his family to Cali, saw the suspect beating on the trooper (as in slamming the trooper's head into the pavement), stopped the car, got his gun and ordered the suspect to COMPLY. When suspect didn't comply, passerby shot suspect fatally and then used the trooper's radio to call it in.

The dice rolled and came up snakes again in November 2016 in Fort Meyers FL:

Link

After the good Samaritan had his gun confiscated by the crime scene boys; the Sheriff's Department in question took the Good Samaritan down to a big local gunstore and got him a new handgun on the spot.

Statistically speaking, the odds of armed people just happening by at that moment deputies are getting their ass beat is pretty low, but it's happened twice so far that I know of in three months; so the same odds also apply at airports.

Them's some awesome strawmen for an airport shooting that we're dealing with, a highly contextualized and highly secure situation in even relatively non-secure airports. Let you know when we're on the next highway shooting thread though.

[RogueIce]

Also, has anyone commented on the perp's run ins with the authorities before this?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017 ... w/96342512

Santiago then moved to Alaska where he repeatedly confronted law enforcement. From January to October of 2016, he encountered Anchorage Police at least five times.

He was arrested and charged with criminal mischief following a "physical disturbance" with his girlfriend in January and was re-arrested for violating an order to stay away from their apartment the next month. But he was not arrested following three other calls. Police said each time that they could not establish probable cause.

Mental health problems

Santiago's erratic behavior escalated in November when he walked into the FBI office in Anchorage complaining that "his mind was being controlled by a U.S. intelligence agency."

FBI officials confiscated the gun he had in his car and sent him to local police, who sent him to get a mental health evaluation. He was cleared, and the FBI closed its file on him and returned his handgun.

So to sum it all up, we have Domestic Violence Guy (Lautenberg Amendment anyone?), who violates restraining orders; and unsettles the FBI enough that they Code 5150 him to a hospital; yet he's a free range individual?

According to that he wasn't charged with DVB, but got a lesser criminal mischief. Not sure how/why but I guess it depends on the details. As far as the psych eval, he was never involuntarily committed, so it wouldn't matter to the Feds.