UK Labour forced reshuffle/ leadership challenge thread

[Dartzap]

Probably the most ironic case of leading by example ever.

[His Divine Shadow]

Random stuff I overheard
"the PLP probably shouldn't have tried to play chicken with a man so stubborn he's stuck to the Labour party for the last 33 years, despite everything"

[His Divine Shadow]

"Brits don't quit" - D. Cameon 22 June 2016

"I quit" - D. Cameron 24 June 2016

"You should quit too" - D. Cameron 27 June 2016

[His Divine Shadow]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ies-brexit

A swirling red mist has descended over the eyes of many Labour MPs. It is a mist that makes them blind to how their activities look to the world outside the Westminster village. If they don’t like Jeremy Corbyn (and despite their protestations to the contrary they give every appearance of not doing so) then they always had the option of a leadership challenge under the rule book. It could have been conducted in an orderly, perhaps low-key fashion, at least until parliament went into recess in just three weeks’ time. The aim would have been to try to concentrate on bringing the country together in a time of great peril after the Brexit vote. And it would have been important in these early days for the entire parliamentary party to focus on holding the Tories to account.

nstead Labour MPs chose to stage a blood-stained three-ring circus. Instead of putting their energies into fighting the Tories, colleagues have been concentrating on orchestrating waves of MPs – whom no one has ever heard of – into resigning from jobs that nobody knew they had. Colleagues could have been providing leadership against the resurgent racism that so many of their constituents are terrified by.

Instead Labour MPs have spent time in huddles with their fellow inhabitants of the Westminster bubble, lobby correspondents. These journalists, supposed political experts, did not see the Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon coming last summer and have never supported him. Accordingly they are now using their columns to tell him to walk away. Colleagues have contrived a “vote of no confidence” that has absolutely no basis in the rule book. There was no notice. It was tabled on Monday and the vote held the following day. No institution would run an important ballot in this way. And it was a secret ballot.

All this was necessary because some Labour MPs expressly did not want any time to consult with ordinary party members. On the contrary they were terrified that their members might actually find out how they voted. Hence the haste and the secrecy. But the climax of all this was Monday’s parliamentary Labour party (PLP) meeting. MP after MP got up to attack Jeremy Corbyn in the most contemptuous terms possible, pausing only to text their abuse to journalists waiting outside. A non-Corbynista MP told me afterwards that he had never seen anything so horrible and he had felt himself reduced to tears. Nobody talked about Jeremy Corbyn’s politics. There was only one intention: to break him as a man.

This attempt to hound Jeremy Corbyn out of the leadership has been planned for months and was entirely outside the rules. Blaming him for the Brexit vote was just a pretext. The truth is that Jeremy travelled thousands of miles mobilising Labour voters. Nearly two-thirds of Labour voted to remain.

If David Cameron had been able to persuade a similar proportion of his Tories to vote for remain, we would still be in the EU. But colleagues went for lynch mob tactics because they didn’t actually want a leadership election with Jeremy on the ballot. Their fear is that he will win. Which brings us to the heart of the matter.

This is not the PLP versus Jeremy Corbyn; this is the PLP versus the membership. It is the inhabitants of the Westminster bubble versus the ordinary men and women who make up the party in the country.

Now, finally, after a hugely destructive attempt to drive Jeremy out of office, his enemies are poised to do what they have struggled to avoid. A formal leadership challenge is imminent. Hopefully the wider Labour party will now begin to leave behind the hysteria that has engulfed the PLP these past few days. Once again party members will be asked what sort of party they want to be and what sort of leadership they want. It can be imagined that they will not look kindly on those who have unleashed the utterly self-serving havoc of the past few days.

[Captain Seafort]

Angela Eagle has challenged Corbyn for the leadership.

[Crown]

Angela Eagle has challenged Corbyn for the leadership.

100% back Corbyn. This temper tantrum from the PLP members is just eye opening at their unmitigated arrogance and sense of entitlement. Fuck them.

[Captain Seafort]

100% back Corbyn. This temper tantrum from the PLP members is just eye opening at their unmitigated arrogance and sense of entitlement. Fuck them.

If Labour goes into an election with him in charge, especially after the mayhem of the last few days, I expect that big red stripe across the north to turn purple. We'd end up with an increased Tory majority and Labour, UKIP and the SNP bickering over who gets to be the official opposition (the SNP have already tried it on given Corbyn's abject lack of support from the PLP). That would be very bad indeed for democracy in this country, and would probably take the best part of a decade to fix.

Even Cameron has been telling him to fuck off on the grounds that what's good for the Tories isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country.

[jwl]

Honestly I think Angela Eagle was pressured into this. She didn't seem 100℅ happy resigning and she doesn't strike me as the coup type.

[Crown]

100% back Corbyn. This temper tantrum from the PLP members is just eye opening at their unmitigated arrogance and sense of entitlement. Fuck them.

If Labour goes into an election with him in charge, especially after the mayhem of the last few days, I expect that big red stripe across the north to turn purple. We'd end up with an increased Tory majority and Labour, UKIP and the SNP bickering over who gets to be the official opposition. That would be very bad indeed for democracy in this country, and would probably take the best part of a decade to fix.

I don't agree with that, Labour has been hoovering up local elections since he's been in charge, and the unions fucking love him. Which voters in the North do you see defecting to Tory? The one's that voted Leave? They would be for Corbyn since it's becoming more and more clear that he wasn't exactly enamoured with the EU. I think the guy has the charisma of a wet box, but right now it's clear that Labour voters are not voting in line with PLP members.

UKIP and SNP have their own problems; Tory voters that were voting UKIP to force Brexit might just switch back to a BoJo Tory party by default sucking all the wind out of UKIP's sails and Nicola is walking a tightrope over what she can actually do since the Eurocrats have told her "lol nope" while she's been shopping around to see if she can get Scotland into the EU without having to apply from square one (that's assuming she's suicidal enough to want to tie Scotland to the Eurozone right now).

Even Cameron has been telling him to fuck off on the grounds that what's good for the Tories isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country.

"Call me Dave" would never offer advice that would benefit Labour.

[Thanas]

To be honest, Corbyn deserves to go just for the way he sabotaged the labour effort in the referendum. Whether he agreed to it or not, it was the official party position. He failed to do much for it and has helped Britain leave the source of most labour protection. So yeah, Corbyn is a massive failure IMO and he should go.

[Captain Seafort]

I don't agree with that, Labour has been hoovering up local elections since he's been in charge, and the unions fucking love him.

The fact that the unions and the party membership love him is the big problem, and I don't consider hanging on to a few safe seats to be "hoovering up" by-elections.

Which voters in the North do you see defecting to Tory?

Sorry, the phrase "turn purple" wasn't clear - I'm not talking about losses to the Tories but to UKIP, building on the huge number of second places they grabbed in the last GE.

UKIP and SNP have their own problems; Tory voters that were voting UKIP to force Brexit might just switch back to a BoJo Tory party by default sucking all the wind out of UKIP's sails

Possibly. Assuming Boris gets the job, and assuming last year's UKIP voters do go back to the Tories, and assuming they don't get hoards more anti-Corbyn Labour voters.

Nicola is walking a tightrope over what she can actually do since the Eurocrats have told her "lol nope" while she's been shopping around to see if she can get Scotland into the EU without having to apply from square one (that's assuming she's suicidal enough to want to tie Scotland to the Eurozone right now).

Indeed, but it would take a minor miracle for the SNP to suffer sufficient losses from their current position for Scotland to be a serious battleground for the other parties.

"Call me Dave" would never offer advice that would benefit Labour.

He was doing so in PMQs today.

[Crazedwraith]

And by the mere act of doing so making it impossible for Corbyn to follow.

[Starglider]

Talking up a leadership contest
Don't have a candidate to run against Corbyn
Profit?

They have a candidate: Angela Eagle declared that she's challenging Corbyn for leadership. All true liberals must of course support her, because whatever his ideological pretensions, Corbyn is still an old white (able-bodied straight cissexual) male embodiment of the patriarchy.

[Crazedwraith]

Talking up a leadership contest
Don't have a candidate to run against Corbyn
Profit?

They have a candidate: Angela Eagle declared that she's challenging Corbyn for leadership. All true liberals must of course support her, because whatever his ideological pretensions, Corbyn is still an old white (able-bodied cissexual) male embodiment of the patriarchy.

That is a completely pitiful troll.

And she's only just declared, she hadn't when HDS posted.

[Starglider]

How can it be trolling when I merely paraphrased it from a RadFem subreddit?

[His Divine Shadow]

To be honest, Corbyn deserves to go just for the way he sabotaged the labour effort in the referendum. Whether he agreed to it or not, it was the official party position. He failed to do much for it and has helped Britain leave the source of most labour protection. So yeah, Corbyn is a massive failure IMO and he should go.

From guardian article:
"The truth is that Jeremy travelled thousands of miles mobilising Labour voters. Nearly two-thirds of Labour voted to remain."

Media didn't give him much attention because he is a reasonable soft spoken man with a moral backbone rather than some grotesque freakshow/display of all that is wrong with humanity like the rest.

[His Divine Shadow]

More apt comments
"the Blairite PLP are a tumour that's grown so large it now believes it's the host."

[Thanas]

To be honest, Corbyn deserves to go just for the way he sabotaged the labour effort in the referendum. Whether he agreed to it or not, it was the official party position. He failed to do much for it and has helped Britain leave the source of most labour protection. So yeah, Corbyn is a massive failure IMO and he should go.

From guardian article:
"The truth is that Jeremy travelled thousands of miles mobilising Labour voters. Nearly two-thirds of Labour voted to remain."

And the head of the remain organization has blamed him for wrecking the campaign.

[His Divine Shadow]

And that persons name is?

[Thanas]

Yet this weekend provided evidence of something much more serious. The BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg and others have seen the documents which prove that Corbyn and his top team were guilty of much worse than a lack of enthusiasm. They engaged in “deliberate sabotage” of the remain campaign. They pulled out of critical media appearances at the last minute, or else passed up media opportunities to make the case against Brexit; they removed pro-EU lines from speeches; they repeatedly diluted the official Labour position of support for in.

My own reporting, speaking to those involved with the in campaign, confirms this account, as does Phil Wilson MP, parliamentary chair of Labour In For Britain. At those moments of the campaign when Labour was to be given the floor, the party had either prepared nothing or used its platform to attack the Tories fronting the remain campaign, rubbishing George Osborne’s warnings of the economic consequences of Brexit for example. There were plans for a dramatic intervention by all Labour’s leaders – past and present – to stand together and call for remain, designed to ram home to Labour supporters where their party stood. But that was scuppered by Corbyn’s refusal to be associated, even indirectly, with Tony Blair. One idea would have seen Blair in Belfast, Gordon Brown in Glasgow, Neil Kinnock in Cardiff and Jeremy Corbyn in England – but Team Corbyn said no to that and every other version of the plan.

Accompanying Labour canvassers in Yorkshire 10 days before the vote, I saw the effect for myself: Labour voters were still unclear whether their party was for remain or leave, and they were certainly not getting the unmistakable message that a vote to leave would be catastrophic for them in particular.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sh-him-out

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit:

Here are his words:

Corbyn sabotaged Labour’s remain campaign. He must resign

Events of the past few days underline just how serious the consequences of the decisions made by our political leaders are. David Cameron’s decision to gamble with Britain’s future in the referendum has proved his own undoing. It was an exercise in Conservative party management that has put the long-term prosperity of the UK under threat and undermined our place in the world. The responsibility lies firmly on his shoulders and he rightly took the decision to resign.

However, just as the prime minister has resigned, so too should Jeremy Corbyn. It is with great regret but also resolve that I – and many other colleagues – have come to that conclusion. Being leader of the opposition and leader of the Labour party brings with it huge responsibility. Yes, you get to provide direction. But you also must bring people with you and lead from the front by example. In the referendum campaign it became clear that Corbyn was neither capable nor willing to do either. The inescapable conclusion is that he is incapable of meeting the challenges of the position he holds – either today or in the future.

This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.

Corbyn made only a smattering of campaign appearances, and they were lacklustre in delivery and critical of the EU in tone resulting in Labour voters not knowing the party’s position or hearing our argument. Corbyn’s infrequent campaign appearances and narrow focus, in turned limited the party’s appeal. He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real. It is. And it is working people and Labour communities that will pay the price. A price that is being felt right now.

But as well as letting down Labour voters, he has also let down Labour members. Labour is a proud internationalist party and our conference, our members and our unions were clear that Labour should fight a strong Labour campaign to keep Britain in Europe.

Labour has a responsibility to the country, our supporters and the values we hold dear to ensure the party is a viable electoral force. I do not want to see this country become a rightwing Tory state and the preserve of nationalists who feed off anger rather than offer solutions. Corbyn should resign with immediate effect, the responsibility of being leader of the Labour party is beyond his capabilities and the stakes are far, far too high for him to continue.

[jwl]

Maybe Corbyn was just reluctant to lie to the electorate to make the case to remain?
e.g. Immigration
I remember Corbyn saying that you can't have an immigration cap whilst having free movement of people, and immigration does depress the wages of local workers, which is why he was proposing a compensation scheme for people who had their wages depressed by immigration. The labour remain campaign might have preferred him to say you can put a limit on immigration whilst also keeping free movement, and immigration does not depress wages, but this would be taking the spin route rather than the honest route.
It might indeed be the case that Corbyn opposed the eu in the past (under Michael Foot) but changed his mind, and in that case he wouldn't automatically take on all of remains arguments, even if he is a remainer on balance.

Anyway, on another note, apparently Owen Smith, an MP who opposes austerity but resignedfron the cabinet because he thought Corbyn might split the party, is apparently thinking of a leadership bid.

[His Divine Shadow]

Ghetto edit:

Here are his words:

Corbyn sabotaged Labour’s remain campaign. He must resign

Events of the past few days underline just how serious the consequences of the decisions made by our political leaders are. David Cameron’s decision to gamble with Britain’s future in the referendum has proved his own undoing. It was an exercise in Conservative party management that has put the long-term prosperity of the UK under threat and undermined our place in the world. The responsibility lies firmly on his shoulders and he rightly took the decision to resign.

However, just as the prime minister has resigned, so too should Jeremy Corbyn. It is with great regret but also resolve that I – and many other colleagues – have come to that conclusion. Being leader of the opposition and leader of the Labour party brings with it huge responsibility. Yes, you get to provide direction. But you also must bring people with you and lead from the front by example. In the referendum campaign it became clear that Corbyn was neither capable nor willing to do either. The inescapable conclusion is that he is incapable of meeting the challenges of the position he holds – either today or in the future.

This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.

Corbyn made only a smattering of campaign appearances, and they were lacklustre in delivery and critical of the EU in tone resulting in Labour voters not knowing the party’s position or hearing our argument. Corbyn’s infrequent campaign appearances and narrow focus, in turned limited the party’s appeal. He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real. It is. And it is working people and Labour communities that will pay the price. A price that is being felt right now.

But as well as letting down Labour voters, he has also let down Labour members. Labour is a proud internationalist party and our conference, our members and our unions were clear that Labour should fight a strong Labour campaign to keep Britain in Europe.

Labour has a responsibility to the country, our supporters and the values we hold dear to ensure the party is a viable electoral force. I do not want to see this country become a rightwing Tory state and the preserve of nationalists who feed off anger rather than offer solutions. Corbyn should resign with immediate effect, the responsibility of being leader of the Labour party is beyond his capabilities and the stakes are far, far too high for him to continue.

So the usual blairite whining and backstabbing to keep labour as a tory-lite party. God knows what the UK (or the world) needs is more right-wing options.

[Thanas]

Sure, you may go and dismiss it as the next great rightwing leftist conspiracy and maybe it is. On the other hand, I have been following the referendum closely and Corbyn seemed disinterested. Heck, he even went on vacation. You may disagree and say it is all a long-planned coup by the anti-corbyn conspiracy (which apparently includes the guardian now) but I think there is truth to the charges.

[jwl]

It's no secret that if Jeremy Corbyn was ever a remainer, he was a reluctant remainer. He campaigned against the EEC under Michael Foot. Labour Leave seems to think he continued being a Eurosceptic right up until his leadership bid to the Labour party (which is why they thought he was faking it). During and after his leadership to the labour party, although he said he would support remain with the eu in its current form, he said that if Cameron used his renegotiation as an excuse to get rid of eu worker's rights laws, he would switch his allegiance to leave. He campaigned for leadership under the basis of ignoring eu competition laws on railway renationalisation.

If we take it on face value that he changed his mind towards remaining in the eu, but only because of eu worker's rights laws, how enthusiastic would you expect him to be? He was never going to be a gigantic europhile whatever side you are on, it's a question of whether he is a reluctant remainer or a leaver pretending to be a reluctant remainer.