How could Muslim and Non-Muslim relationship be improved?

[Ralin]

Blsh blah blah. I have muh sterotypes, and i refuse to bring any evidence to the table, so ill ask a load of questions irrelevant to the op and hide behind them when people call me out on my own bullshit.

Grow up.

I might be inclined to answer a question for a question. If only because in answeribg them you might actually do somer esearch and learn something about a topic that clearly interests you.

He may be doing a bad job of arguing it, but I agree with the general point. I've been an open atheist in America for several years now. America is 75+ percent Christian and generally considered to be much more religious than most developed countries. I've dealt with hostility and prejudice, but I've never been afraid of violence for saying (to quote Wong) that God doesn't exist, was a stupid idea to begin with and is an evil asshole if he does. I can think of plenty of other Christian majority countries where that would be just as true. Muslim countries, not so much.

Which is why I buy into the 'it's the extremists' argument less and less. Near as I can tell there's nothing 'extreme' about a Muslim who supports violence against blasphemers, apostates, women who do not know their place, etc. When shit like that starts getting written into law it stops being 'the extremists.' I'm pretty sure you call that normal.

And yes, you can find plenty of equivalent examples of Christians doing things just as bad and for reasons that are just as based in their religion. Yes, there are many Muslims who don't buy into those things and who suffer unfairly because of association. But overall those bad things seem way more prevalent among Muslims as a demographic.

[Zwinmar]

IMO there is no real difference in the dogma between Christians (of all stripes and bends) and Muslims. Given the opportunity they will both go to the extreme to kill someone who thinks differently. However, the difference is that the Western world has become fat and lazy and quit giving a shit once they were able to get their daily dose of bread and circuses.

I can only speculate that the average Western home may have more forms of regularly used entertainment (such as the boob tube and internet) that the average Muslim household as it is really the magnitude of difference in wealth of the median populace that is different. Both go to their religious place and get hate spouted at them, however, only one of them has nothing to do when they get home.

[Napoleon the Clown]

To a large degree, variation in religions and cultures matters. Economic stability greatly affects things, too. The "western world" tends to be in better economic shape than most of the Middle East, and largely has more religious diversity. When everything has gone to shit, people tend to become much more reactionary. And stability has not been part of most of the Middle East in decades.

[madd0ct0r]

Much as I love Zwinmar's line of argument, I was going to follow the one he alludes to, that a significant factor is the western countiries are fat and comfortable beyond any comparisons.
If you are going to look at Pakistan, or Indonesia or Malaysia, and talk about "Near as I can tell there's nothing 'extreme' about a Muslim who supports violence against blasphemers, apostates, women who do not know their place, etc. When shit like that starts getting written into law it stops being 'the extremists.' I'm pretty sure you call that normal."

Try being gay in Russia: https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/14/dis ... gay-russia
Try being the wrong faith in Brazil: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... vangelical
Try getting an abortion in Ireland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_ ... of_Ireland
Try being openly aethist in Nigeria: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... up-atheist

Time spent googling, less then 3mins. It took longer to fucking type.

Now, Ralin's post is layered with uncertainty. "Near as I can tell", "I buy into", "near as I can tell," pretty sure" and most daming of all, 'seems'. Simple. You are fed a diet of shit news that uses 'muslim' as clickbait at best. That's why you associated it.
As I linked last page:

2006: http://www.channel4.com/news/media/pdfs ... ege_LR.pdf
Subtitle: Alienating Deprived Communities
Long, and I'm not going to quote here, but its a pretty devastating review of fake news articles used by mainstream british papers to stoke up hatred for clicks. FAKE ARTICLES. It's worth the read.

2016: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 56021.html
This article must have a couple of hundred linked examples, but it goes into the systematic distortion of the media in detail.

And let's pull a new one in shall we. In Novemeber 2015 the Sun launched it's front page "1 in 5 Brit Muslims sympathy for jihadis" based on a large poll. It was widely echoed in the press. But then it emerged that basically, they lied. That's not the questions that were asked, and the press regulator forced them to apologise. Guess what people "seem" to remember though?
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/i-conduc ... i-sympathy
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... misleading


So basically, don't trust your gut on this one, it's full of shit. Made up stories designed to sell clicks and promote agendas.

[wautd]

A lot of recent issues deals with the Muslims being seen as a boogeyman in non-Muslim majority countries, with fear and hatred of Muslims being routinely expressed publically and garner significant support. While there have been efforts to improve the perception of Muslims, all that is needed to undo any progress made in the past few years is another major terrorist attacks by an Islamic terrorist.

What are some of the efforts your countries is making in improving the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims? What are the ways you think this could be improved?

As long as Western nations turn a blind eye against mosques were hate preaching imams advocate intolerance to democracy and western values and oppose integration or basic human rights it's a lost battle

[Purple]

As long as Western nations turn a blind eye against mosques were hate preaching imams advocate intolerance to democracy and western values and oppose integration or basic human rights it's a lost battle

Thing is, it does not really matter what the west does as long as there are actual Islamic theocracies out there with the money and will to finance these radicals. Driving them underground is only going to make them stronger by giving them legitimacy. And you can't keep them out either.

[Tanasinn]

IMO there is no real difference in the dogma between Christians (of all stripes and bends) and Muslims. Given the opportunity they will both go to the extreme to kill someone who thinks differently. However, the difference is that the Western world has become fat and lazy and quit giving a shit once they were able to get their daily dose of bread and circuses.

I can only speculate that the average Western home may have more forms of regularly used entertainment (such as the boob tube and internet) that the average Muslim household as it is really the magnitude of difference in wealth of the median populace that is different. Both go to their religious place and get hate spouted at them, however, only one of them has nothing to do when they get home.

That must be why the fabulously rich Saudi royalty and billionaire scions like Osama bin Laden don't support, lead, or fund most international Islamist terrorism.

[AniThyng]

IMO there is no real difference in the dogma between Christians (of all stripes and bends) and Muslims. Given the opportunity they will both go to the extreme to kill someone who thinks differently. However, the difference is that the Western world has become fat and lazy and quit giving a shit once they were able to get their daily dose of bread and circuses.

I can only speculate that the average Western home may have more forms of regularly used entertainment (such as the boob tube and internet) that the average Muslim household as it is really the magnitude of difference in wealth of the median populace that is different. Both go to their religious place and get hate spouted at them, however, only one of them has nothing to do when they get home.

We have plenty of internet and TV and malls, it does not stop people from sprouting hate on facebook and holding regressive views. It may account for not being willing to literally fight or terrorism, but that's not the only aspect of Islamic law that's troubling.

[madd0ct0r]

true, and the stuff iposted earlier showed extremsism tied to rich bored 3rd gen, not refugees. That said, legal wrangles in malaysisa isn't what the op was refering to was he?

hypothesis. Malyaisa, in common with any complex state, survies indynamic tension, with the balance between extreme opposing positions constantly changing over time, like a pencil being balanced on end.

[Elfdart]

Most of the hostility would end the very minute those damned dirty Mooslim savages quit hoarding our oil under their land. The Bastards.

[Crown]

Most of the hostility would end the very minute those damned dirty Mooslim savages quit hoarding our oil under their land. The Bastards.

What was the foreign policy position of the Yazidi people again?

[Knife]

As with most actual problems, there are multiple issues to address. I would assume that on both sides it is a combination of education and economic stability but even if we fix those two, I think there are other smaller ones to address.

First off there is the framing. Both of the big two religions actually enjoy to some extent that they are against each other. Both are proselytizing religions that need to 'save' everyone from the false religion. Both need the boogeyman over there to push others into the right path. I think this obviously funnels into nationalism and tribalism well and that just multiplies the problem. Education will help with this, pushed societies towards secularization but as humans I don't think we will ever get rid of some tribalism.

[Zixinus]

We can not encourage tribalism. It's sort of what we've been doing in the past two thousand years and to what a lesser extent religions have done: everyone worships the same god, holy laws about not killing apply to everyone*, therefore everyone's forbidden from killing one another.

It's that there is a large subsection to the * that's the problem.

[Knife]

We can not encourage tribalism. It's sort of what we've been doing in the past two thousand years and to what a lesser extent religions have done: everyone worships the same god, holy laws about not killing apply to everyone*, therefore everyone's forbidden from killing one another.

It's that there is a large subsection to the * that's the problem.

Considering that each religion is wanting to increase it's base and not the other, not seeing how making a 'unified' statement that all religions are really one and therefore don't kill each other will work. More likely more education to show that all religions are crap and to secularize would go more towards no tribalism. But like I said, it's also human nature so not sure we could expel all tribalism, but not going to let perfect be the enemy of good.

[madd0ct0r]

Going back to what I was discussing on the first page, even when the clearest of statements is made, it is not 'juicy' enough to sell papers, and the for profit media focuses on stories that sell - stories of fear and division. This is the reason the BBC exists, as it is supposed to not be for profit, and that should give it the freedom to report non-'juicy' stories like this. Unfortunately, given the review on how the BBC is funded, the government has a much tighter leash on it this, and a fearful population vote tory.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 65976.html

Organisers of an anti-Isis march in London have spoken of their frustration after mainstream media outlets failed to cover the demonstration.

Thousands of people took part in the annual UK Arbaeen Procession, coordinated by the Husaini Islamic Trust UK, on Sunday.

Although Shia Muslims take part in the march each year to mark the Arbaeen, or mourning, anniversary of Imam Husain - a seventh-century leader who fought for social justice - this year organisers decided to use the event as a platform to denounce terrorism following the recent Isis attacks in Paris, Beirut and elsewhere.

Organiser Waqar Haider said: "This year we had hundreds of placards which were basically saying ‘no’ to terrorism and ‘no’ to Isis. A very direct message.

"For us it was a controversial move to go political. Normally we don’t mix politics with mourning. However with what's happened recently, we thought we had to make sure we as a community totally disassociate ourselves with what's happening elsewhere in the world."

Despite this, Mr Haider said the demonstration still failed to garner attention in the mainstream media because of "stereotyping".

"It is the oldest annual Muslim event in London but unfortunately it is very difficult to get any media coverage," he said.

"I think it's because of stereotyping. People see the entire Muslim community as one community.

---
Mr Al-Sharifi told The Independent: "I think the reason the mainstream media hasn’t covered the story is because I don’t think it's juicy enough to sell papers. It's simply not interesting enough."

"Unfortunately [some] media outlets have gone for stories that to some extent can be divisive. If a group of Muslims do something good, it's not mentioned or the religion is not mentioned. But if someone does something [negative], it is on the front page and their religion is mentioned."

"It's feeding this hatred and divisiveness and demonisation, I think, of Muslims."

He said the media had an increased level of responsibility to create a cohesive society.

"The reason my tweet went viral… is because I think people realise there is a huge disparity between what they're being fed in the media and the reality of the day-to-day interactions they have with Muslims at work, at school."

Mr Al-Sharifi called on the country's leadership to counter Islamophobia.