Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other week

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Dominus Atheos
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Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other week

Post by Dominus Atheos »

http://www.wgrz.com/longform/news/local ... /19012631/
Buffalo Police have shot an average of 24 dogs per year since 2011, a pace of one dog roughly every two weeks. Due to the lack of a national record-keeping system, however, it's difficult to compare Buffalo's numbers to other municipalities.

Cincinnati Police provided WGRZ-TV with a copy of its use of force records, which revealed officers had shot 27 dogs from Jan. 1, 2011 through Sept. 2014.

The New York City Police Department produces an annual discharge report, publishing its most recent version in 2012. According to those reports, the NYPD shot 72 dogs in 2011 and 2012, but fewer than 30 percent of those cases (21) resulted in fatalities. Buffalo Police – which has a fatality rate of 79 percent since 2011 in officer-involved dog shootings – killed twice as many dogs as the NYPD in that two-year span.

Of course, for every Cincinnati and New York City, there are also cities like Milwaukee, where a lawsuit cited by the Associated Press revealed the police department shot nearly 50 dogs per year from 2000 to 2008. In Southwest Florida, the News-Press discovered 111 instances of dog shootings among multiple agencies between 2009 and 2012, representing about 37 per year. According to the Chicago Tribune, Chicago Police shot approximately 90 dogs per year between 2008 and 2013.
We've had debates about statistics vs anecdotes before, so here are some statistics. Assuming this is the Buffalo Metro area, that gives a population of 1,134,210 according to Wikipedia. The United States has a population of 319,298,000, giving a ratio of 281.5. 281.5 times 42 dogs a year equals 6756 dogs shot in the us per year, or 18.5 dead dogs every day.

But the article says that Buffalo may be high, but how high? Even at the extreme, US police shoot several dogs every day somewhere in this country.
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Kamakazie Sith
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

To add to this dogs are shot/killed all the time by farmers, airport security, mailmen, gas meter readers, and your local animal shelters.

Airport security or animal control will shoot and kill a dog just for being on airport property. Animal shelters kill dogs and cats daily by gassing them and then freezing them into neat little disposable cubes.
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Jub
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:To add to this dogs are shot/killed all the time by farmers, airport security, mailmen, gas meter readers, and your local animal shelters.

Airport security or animal control will shoot and kill a dog just for being on airport property. Animal shelters kill dogs and cats daily by gassing them and then freezing them into neat little disposable cubes.
Yes, but this gives some context to the debate about the use and abuse of police powers in the United States. It at the very least shows that shooting dogs looks to be routine for some police forces.
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PKRudeBoy
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:To add to this dogs are shot/killed all the time by farmers, airport security, mailmen, gas meter readers, and your local animal shelters.

Airport security or animal control will shoot and kill a dog just for being on airport property. Animal shelters kill dogs and cats daily by gassing them and then freezing them into neat little disposable cubes.
Well yeah, but except for meter readers and mailmen, none of them come on your property to do so. And looking through Google for the first five pages each for either of them brings 1 case of a postal worker shooting a dog, 25 years ago, and getting charged with a felony for it, and 2 instances of meter readers killing dogs without guns.
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Beowulf »

Postal workers are generally more inclined to just stop delivery to an address than shoot a dog. Easier, and more passive-aggressive. Plus, shooting the dog would require them to carry a gun, and it's illegal to carry into post offices.
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Irbis
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Irbis »

Also, animal shelters and animal control in general dispose of owner-less dogs, often ones that can't be allowed to roam free for very good reasons. That's a little different from barging in and shooting family mascot for convenience, don't you think? :?
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Dominus Atheos
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

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On the other hand, the NYPD apparently does a great job not shooting dogs. If we take their number (21 dead dogs per year per 8,405,000 people) and extrapolate that into the entire US population, 2.1 would be the low estimate.

So someone is going to ask "how many of those shootings are not police brutality", and apparently despite best training and efforts, 2 dogs shot and killed by the police every day is "unavoidable". Significantly more than that is definitely wrong.
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Irbis »

Dominus Atheos wrote:On the other hand, the NYPD apparently does a great job not shooting dogs. If we take their number (21 dead dogs per year per 8,405,000 people) and extrapolate that into the entire US population, 2.1 would be the low estimate.

So someone is going to ask "how many of those shootings are not police brutality", and apparently despite best training and efforts, 2 dogs shot and killed by the police every day is "unavoidable". Significantly more than that is definitely wrong.
Do they? For comparison, I checked how it looks in Poland. First 5 pages of 'policeman shoots dog' show only articles about police brutality in USA, only after some digging I found 2 cases, one from 2009, second from 2013. Police raid on local drug shop, policeman accused of duty breach for shooting dog, police unit reprimanded for not taking veterinarian with them to calm or disable the animals. 2 cases in 5 years per 38 million people, compared to above it's about 250 times smaller number.

Of course, out policemen aren't paper white with terror everyone will suddenly pull a dozen concealed AK-47s or trained to think with their gun first lest someone chooses them for some opposing of tyrannical government, so there's that*

*before any knee-jerks start, disclaimer, it was sarcasm.
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Kamakazie Sith
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

PKRudeBoy wrote: Well yeah, but except for meter readers and mailmen, none of them come on your property to do so. And looking through Google for the first five pages each for either of them brings 1 case of a postal worker shooting a dog, 25 years ago, and getting charged with a felony for it, and 2 instances of meter readers killing dogs without guns.
I get that. However, my point is dogs are shot for many reasons and not all of them involve police entering your property to do so. Depending on the location and how law enforcement is setup in these regions police can fill the animal control role. I'll concede if Dominus can show me that all these dog deaths by Buffalo police are during the course of them coming onto the property of another person but I can take it seriously if they aren't because again like I said millions of dogs are killed in the US every year.

Also, try googling "postal worker kills dog" instead of "postal worker shoots dog". I'm not surprised you could only find one case of a postal worker shooting a dog since it is against USPS policy for them to carrying firearms. However, they have killed plenty of dogs. Not trying to assert that they kill as many as cops do but they do kill them and they don't get charged either. Here's an example; Postal worker kills dog with rock

That USPS worker wasn't charged despite that dog being rather small. Do you know why? It's because the law allows anyone to kill a dog if it attacks them in a place they are legally allowed to be. There is no requirement for less lethal force or anything like that. If you're standing on the sidewalk and a small chiuaua comes running at you then you can pull out your firearm and blow it away.
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Kamakazie Sith
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Re: Buffalo NY police shoot a dog an average of every other

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Jub wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:To add to this dogs are shot/killed all the time by farmers, airport security, mailmen, gas meter readers, and your local animal shelters.

Airport security or animal control will shoot and kill a dog just for being on airport property. Animal shelters kill dogs and cats daily by gassing them and then freezing them into neat little disposable cubes.
Yes, but this gives some context to the debate about the use and abuse of police powers in the United States. It at the very least shows that shooting dogs looks to be routine for some police forces.
Agreed but the thing is it might very well be routine because the different roles different agencies are asked to fill.

For example, in Utah County it is the mandated job for animal control in that area to go out and kill any at large dogs wandering around airport property. Not capture. Kill with a scoped rifle. So, if they document these instances then their numbers will be higher than NYPD who might not be responsible for such actions, or another agency handles it, or they actually do capture them.
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