South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

weemadando wrote:AD, would you feel the same way if a snake was just trying to eke out a living so it could nest and lay some eggs and then BAM someone kills it because it turns out that the snake is in that persons yard?

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=151017

Maybe the shark should have invested in a set of human tongs so it could remove the human without any harm coming to either party?
Again: The snake, like a child, does not have the capacity to know better. An adult human does. The snake does not know what it means to be in someone's yard. Children lack the ability to consider the consequences of their actions,and are ignorant to risk.

An adult human has both of these capacities. In both cases--that of the snake, and swimming while doing a seal impression--an adult human is is the only entity that can be considered to be responsible for their actions and thus the outcome.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by CJvR »

Darth Wong wrote:The Darwin Awards are based on it.
My all time favorite is the idiot who decided to play Russian Roulette, Darwin Award material on it's own, but when you do it with a pistol rather than with a revolver you take it to a whole new level!
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by weemadando »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Again: The snake, like a child, does not have the capacity to know better. An adult human does. The snake does not know what it means to be in someone's yard. Children lack the ability to consider the consequences of their actions,and are ignorant to risk.

An adult human has both of these capacities. In both cases--that of the snake, and swimming while doing a seal impression--an adult human is is the only entity that can be considered to be responsible for their actions and thus the outcome.
Given then that this guy has the capacity for reasoning and judgement, doesn't it make sense that he deemed the risk to himself as lesser than the risk to his family should be not gather food to eat or sell to buy food?

But hey, a guy desperately trying to look out for his family got killed. Let's laugh.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

There are also those scientists who swim with great whites without cages, which takes total brass balls.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Given then that this guy has the capacity for reasoning and judgement, doesn't it make sense that he deemed the risk to himself as lesser than the risk to his family should be not gather food to eat or sell to buy food?

But hey, a guy desperately trying to look out for his family got killed. Let's laugh.
Gee, and lets also completely forget the basic precautions someone can take when they ARE going to engage in what is basically abalone diving. Here is a hint: If poor dirt fishermen in the congo can afford a boat, so can this guy. Especially at the going rate for what he was collecting, throwing in with a few friends.

A boat allows a person to dive, surface, take shelter either on or around said boat so that they are either out of the water entirely or not looking like Andre the Seal, catch one's breath, and then either dive again, or relocate. As opposed to what these guys did, which is to spend significant amounts of time looking like seals on the surface.
There is a difference between a calculated and mitigated risk, and stupidity. I take a calculated risk every time I get in my car. I wear my seat belt, dont speed, and obey traffic laws. If I get in an accident and die, it is tragic. If I dont wear my seatbelt, get into an accident, and become a living pinball, I deserve to be an object of ridicule.
There are also those scientists who swim with great whites without cages, which takes total brass balls.
They dont look like a seal when they do it, and they keep an eye out. If you do it right, there is not a shark species in the world other than perhaps a tiger shark that you are in significant danger from (freak incidents aside, they are wild animals). If you do it wrong, what happens is a Shark Swim Fail, and you are a potentially stone dead dumbass.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:corpse with a disintegrated colon hanging out between his butt cheeks lying on a pool of blood and feces
Suddenly I find myself thinking of the Little Caesar thread.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

DudeGuyMan wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:corpse with a disintegrated colon hanging out between his butt cheeks lying on a pool of blood and feces
Suddenly I find myself thinking of the Little Caesar thread.
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I wonder if proximity has something to do with schadenfreude. Like, when we hear of stuff like this on the TV or in the internet, we'd go ha ha ha. But if it happened right there in front of us, even if we knew of the circumstances leading to it and the shortsights or stupidity of the people who end up being victimized, none of us would be laughing and we'd all be scared or panicking or trying to help the poor guy who got half-eaten by a shark or enema'ed by high pressure gas and afterwards we'd be breaking down or having nightmares about it or something.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Probably. Those of us who aren't sociopaths, anyway.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by KhorneFlakes »

Hell yes I will attempt to help him...If I can. It's the humane thing to do.

To be frank, I don't think I'll be having nightmares. If you get maimed by a shark, of course it's going to look like X or DEAR GOD BLOOD ALL OVER THE LEGS.

I understand why other people have trouble dealing with it, however. Children even more so - this is why I laugh at Fundamentalists encouraging mega-violence in pg and g-rated stuff while claiming sexuality is evil because it kills babies or something. And then claiming family values bullshit. It's just as funny as it is annoying. But going will be OT, so I'll shut up now.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Flagg »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
weemadando wrote:AD, would you feel the same way if a snake was just trying to eke out a living so it could nest and lay some eggs and then BAM someone kills it because it turns out that the snake is in that persons yard?

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=151017

Maybe the shark should have invested in a set of human tongs so it could remove the human without any harm coming to either party?
Again: The snake, like a child, does not have the capacity to know better. An adult human does. The snake does not know what it means to be in someone's yard. Children lack the ability to consider the consequences of their actions,and are ignorant to risk.

An adult human has both of these capacities. In both cases--that of the snake, and swimming while doing a seal impression--an adult human is is the only entity that can be considered to be responsible for their actions and thus the outcome.
I think he's pointing out that the outrage over the death of a mindless reptile and the glee over the death of a human being makes you a fucking sociopath.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Mayabird »

Sociopaths do not have feelings beyond very shallow ones, you fucking idiot. That Aly can have strong feelings of empathy towards anything automatically excludes him from being a sociopath. An asshole? Possibly, but not sociopath. You're just using terms without thought to justify your own knee-jerking and self-righteousness.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by hongi »

madd0ct0r wrote:
If I met a guy who bet his house on the roulette to try and provide for his family I'd punch him.
Same here.
What about if he bet his life to try and provide for his family?
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Julhelm »

hongi wrote:
madd0ct0r wrote:
If I met a guy who bet his house on the roulette to try and provide for his family I'd punch him.
Same here.
What about if he bet his life to try and provide for his family?
How is that any different? Just different flavors of the same stupid.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by S.L.Acker »

hongi wrote:
madd0ct0r wrote:
If I met a guy who bet his house on the roulette to try and provide for his family I'd punch him.
Same here.
What about if he bet his life to try and provide for his family?
Except that what this guy did is more like using a semi-automatic pistol to play with instead of a revolver. Just using a cheap inflatable boat, or even some raft he'd cobbled together would have significantly mitigated this idiots risk of death.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Definitely agreed, it is quite stupid to risk your life for the sake of people you love.

Why didn't that loser just get a job?
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by S.L.Acker »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Definitely agreed, it is quite stupid to risk your life for the sake of people you love.

Why didn't that loser just get a job?
Why are you ignoring the fact that people wouldn't call him a moron and might have more sympathy if he'd used a boat to make the chances of being eaten far less likely?
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

The Article wrote:The poacher is the second person this year to be killed by a shark in South Africa.
In January tourist Lloyd Skinner was killed by a great white as he swam a few metres off the beach in Fish Hoek near Cape Town.
Shocked holiday-makers watched from the shore as the 47-year-old was pulled underwater.
HAHAHAHAHA! What a stupid fucking tourist, he fully deserved that! Why didn't he just stay on shore or in a boat, he wasn't even poor or supporting his family through necessary interaction with the waters there! God what a fucking moron, laughing at his stupid, easily preventable death just makes my day.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by S.L.Acker »

Destructionator XIII wrote:Oh, let them eat cake.

I betcha more people die from shitty boats than by flying sharks.
How would a shitty boat have killed guys already used to swimming large distances in cold water?
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

I'm glad you're in a perfect position to judge them. I mean, I'm sure they never once thought about making a boat, and possibly came to the conclusion that, oh, they're too dirt fucking poor to afford even that, or maybe that as a group of twelve, it doesn't make economic sense to build a boat or boats large enough to haul all of them when they can do the job without, or maybe because they live in a dirt-poor, crime-ridden shithole, building a boat is just an invitation to get it stolen, or perhaps having a boat makes them and their illegal activities more visible to the authorities.

That's off the top of my head.

And this is still ignoring the fact that there are a total of two shark deaths in that area over the space of a year. That's out of how many thousands, tens of thousands of people swimming out there? This guy got hit by a ridiculously unlikely freak occurrence, not only is it sad that his shit-poor family has lost their breadwinner, but laughing at him for getting hit by a one in a ten-thousand chance death is fucking callous and retarded.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

For the record, how do we actually know that he was desperate and doing this because he had to provide for his family? Remember, poaching is ILLEGAL, and that is the story they told the authorities after reporting the death. Take that claim with a grain of salt. I am not saying these people aren't poor, but poachers often choose their line of work due to the high profit margins and how relatively difficult it is to get caught. I don't think you can really play the "OH NO BOO HOOS HE IS SUPER POOR HE HAS TO DO THIS TO SUVIVE" card here.

Besides, at Darth Wong said, this is no different than the Darwin Awards or anything else of the sort. Either you like it or you don't, you can't choose one and dismiss the other.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

My guess is, if it's a somewhat built up area, the only thing you could easily make a boat out of is easily lashed-together hunks of plastic, sheet metal, and a couple sealed barrels for floatation. And most likely said boat would actually be slower than just plain swimming, even with a load, not to mention a lot more subtle.

And as others have already pointed out, there's the actual risk factor. The one-in-ten-thousand chance of shark attack probably gets a lot lower concern than, say, things like accidentally tearing your shin open and getting tetanus from a rusty shard of sheet-metal used in your boat, or the million and a half other more likely, less exotic dangers you probably face in that sort of work.

I just find it darkly amusing that, of the two shark attacks described in the article, people are choosing to laugh at the person who had a more legitimate need to be in the water.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

I think he's pointing out that the outrage over the death of a mindless reptile and the glee over the death of a human being makes you a fucking sociopath.
Yeah, that does not track. You have admitted in here that you have felt amusement over the death of a human being. I suspect you not throw stones from glass houses.

I am not amused by the death of every person. Or even every person that gets eaten by something. It is context dependent. Lets look at a number of cases:

Person dies as a result of terminal illness: Well... damn. That poor bastard.

Person dies from parasite infection because doctors misdiagnosed it: This is sad.

Person victim of a rape-homicide: Also sad, and makes me angry at the perp.

Swimmer a few meters off beach in really shallow water: Getting hit by a shark is fucking weird. Look at aerial photos of a beach sometime. There are sharks everywhere. A person being bitten by a shark is rare, because the sharks dont usually view them as prey items. Except for tiger sharks. They view hunks of metal is prey. Usually shark bites are the equivalent of a toddler putting something in its mouth to investigate. The shark just has lots of teeth. I dont find this any more tragic than a car accident. Sad, but it is bad luck. No one acted stupidly here.

Surfers getting hit by a shark: Surfers ring the proverbial dinner bell. Their chance of being attacked at a beach is much much higher than the swimmers a few tens of meters closer to shore, because they look like food to a great white shark. The chances for everyone on that beach being attacked may be one in several thousand. When you restrict the pool to surfers, it is much higher. Surfers however have a sort of group ethos common to most extreme sports. They take what precautions they can, but they rationally accept the risk in order to have their fun. Even then, they surf in areas miles away from the preferred hunting areas of great white sharks, and get hit as attacks of opportunity by sharks in transit.

This guy: OK. Lets deal with some assumptions here. You are all assuming that this guy in this case is dirt poor. There is nothing in the article to suggest this. That they go poaching to provide food for their families is said, but only once a week? What do they do the rest of the week? Does he fish conventionally? Work in tourism? Is he unemployed? They (he and his friends) can afford things like dive fins, mask, snorkel etc. Not sure if they were free diving or using tanks. But even the gear for snorkeling gets expensive. So, why are we making this assumption that the guy is dirt poor? Because he lives in Africa? This is not the Central African Republic. This is South Africa. Is it poor? Yes, but not as poor as much of the rest of the continent. Is it a paradise? No. Is it THAT god damn dirt poor that you think a fisherman cannot afford a fucking boat? Even really dirt poor fishermen in the congo have boats. So, unless you have actual evidence to the contrary...
but poachers often choose their line of work due to the high profit margins and how relatively difficult it is to get caught. I don't think you can really play the "OH NO BOO HOOS HE IS SUPER POOR HE HAS TO DO THIS TO SUVIVE" card here.
We have a winner.

There are precautions shellfish divers and spear fishermen can and do take when they are in waters with sharks. For example, not tying a bunch of dead fish to your body, but instead tying them to your spear so that if you are approached by a shark, it does not take your liver with your catch, and you can let it munch on the spear shaft. Using a boat so you are not swimming for three miles in the nexus of S.Africa's great white population at the surface like a very stupid seal is another.

Put this in perspective. Dyer Island, the island they were swimming to and from, is a fucking seal colony. Even the seals take precautions. They swim through that whole area at top speed, minimizing their time at the surface, and when they are at the surface, they breach (propel themselves out of the water) so that the shark can only see them to target them half the time.

So, these guys were swimming in an area that has one of the largest and most conspicuous great white populations on the planet, in an area the sharks use to hunt, behaving like an injured or terminally stupid seal.

When someone does something this stupid, they deserve what they get. They have earned it. If you cannot afford the safety equipment, you should not do something.
Actually, darwin awards are obviously stupid actions. Given how rare shark attacks are, this is actually (likely) a rational risk/reward tradeoff.
Shark attacks are rare because they are derived by dividing the number of shark attacks by the number of swimmers. These guys increased their probability of attack WAY the fuck beyond that. See above. We dont have the statistics for attack probabilities for shit like this, because the number of people who do something this moronic is so low. No one bothers to collect the numbers. I suppose the best approximation for how moronic these guys are is to look at studies where biologists studying Shark Breaching tie a fake seal to the back of their boat and tow it along at low speed. The attack probabilities are fairly high per unit time, and it is a god damn miracle that these people had not been attacked before now.
it doesn't make economic sense to build a boat or boats large enough to haul all of them when they can do the job without
Traveling to and from a seal colony, doing what any local person, particularly a fisherman, knows will attract sharks?
maybe because they live in a dirt-poor, crime-ridden shithole, building a boat is just an invitation to get it stolen
South Africa is not like the rest of Africa. It is not fun, but it is not the congo. And in the congo, fishermen have boats. You are making way the fuck too many unwarranted assumptions about economic status here.
And this is still ignoring the fact that there are a total of two shark deaths in that area over the space of a year. That's out of how many thousands, tens of thousands of people swimming out there?
See above. The statistics for shark attacks on recreational swimmers and surfers just... do not apply. The other death was a freak accident. This was not. This was a guy swimming while ringing the dinner bell.
This guy got hit by a ridiculously unlikely freak occurrence
A car accident is a freakishly unlikely occurrence. Unless I get drunk and decide to speed down a winding road, then I am playing Russian Roulette, and it is just a matter of time and repetition. The only thing this guy could have done to make his attack probability higher would have been to have a piece of rancid tuna tied to his leg.
or perhaps having a boat makes them and their illegal activities more visible to the authorities
I am reminded of an episode of World's Dumbest Criminals....
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Simon_Jester »

Destructionator XIII wrote:Actually, darwin awards are obviously stupid actions. Given how rare shark attacks are, this is actually (likely) a rational risk/reward tradeoff.
It's rational if you take sensible precautions to protect your life and health while doing it.

What's irrational is doing things in a careless, slipshod way, and ignoring the constant, widespread warnings your government passes out about how to avoid being eaten by sharks. Then the risk of you being attacked by a shark goes up a lot.

The article lends itself to more than one interpretation; it's incomplete. Maybe these illegal fishers were so dirt poor they could not couldn't get a boat, or do anything else to ensure their safety. Maybe they discounted the risks, decided to do something dangerous, and got attacked.

I'm not sure how we decide which it is.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Mr. Coffee »

Your wife and kids are starving, hell, maybe they're just under fed, and you find a way to provide for them, that while illegal and possibly dangerous, will provide money so you can feed them. Would you do what it takes to keep your family fed? If you say "no" then I'll call you out as a useless piece of shit that should never be allowed to have a family.

Now, to everyone in the thread that's going "Ha ha, funny!" or trying to rationalize why this should be funny, what about the family of the guy that died trying to make some money to feed them. They've lost a father, or a brother, or whatever on top of being poor and hungry. Is it still funny? If you say "yes" I'll go ahead and call you out as a heartless fucking prick right now.
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Re: South African Poacher Gets Air-Jawsed

Post by Darth Wong »

Ah, so unless proven otherwise, every "poor" person in South Africa should be assumed to be starving and near-death now, so that all of the things we would normally say about a dumb-ass cannot apply. Gotcha.
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