The Democractic Manifesto

[Democracy Fanboy]

The Democratic Manifesto

This is an articulation of my political views that I wrote around a year ago. It was originally intended to be a book but later proved too short. It's still a lengthy read by article standards, with 37 pages and 8,000+ words, so I'll briefly summarize what I say in my Manifesto:

I do not believe that the United States of America or any other so-called "representative democracy" in the world is truly democratic. It is not the people who run our society, but rather a small clique of dissimulating politicians and exploitative capitalists. If we are to establish a truly democratic society, we must abolish government, capitalism, our money economy, and any form of social hierarchy. Later in the Manifesto I elaborate on what exactly a real democracy would look like and then cite a working example of a democracy in 1930s Spain. I then conclude with suggestions on how a democracy can finally be established in America (the Manifesto was written with an American audience in mind).

Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[madd0ct0r]

I charge at $5 a page for quality feedback.

[Simon_Jester]

DF, why don't you define democracy?

Why, exactly, do you have to abolish money to have democracy?

[Mr. Coffee]

Why, exactly, do you have to abolish money to have democracy?

So he can stiff the Clown Guild on membership dues, of course. If there's no money then they can't very well expect him to pay. Simon, why are you such a clown apologist? Why do you hate freedom so much?

[ComradeClaus]

It would help, alol LOT, if you DIDN'T call it a manifesto.

Really, everyone should know that ALL the famous manifestos were written by terrorists & sociopaths

call it something benign, like The Diary of Democracy (Frank) or the Democracy Rulebook for Dummies.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Could you do something to the text so it isn't ridiculously hard to read?

[Panzersharkcat]

Seriously, if I can't be assed to reread Rothbard or finish watching The Road Warrior, I'm not going to read this tripe. Going off of what Simon_Jester said, how exactly will you make an economy run without money? It evolved for a reason: to facilitate exchange. So much of modern economic exchange would be impossible without it. Most of the world would starve to death. For example, a doctor in a monetary system would be paid in money for his services and go out and buy whatever he wants to buy. If he's in a barter system, he'd have to find people with telescopes who need root canals and people with sweaters who need fillings and so forth. Even worse, he'd have to get a large number of, say, apples in order for it to be worth his time, labor, and skills. He'd have to then exchange those apples for other things he needs or wants, like a telescope. He'd be forced to be a dentist and an apple salesman. Division of labor would completely collapse.

EDIT: Preempting attempts to bash the division of labor, I point out that something as simple as a toaster would cost about 18 dollars, according to the first result I found on Amazon.com for toasters. This man made his own toaster from scratch with his own labor only. It took him about nine months at three hundred times the cost it took to just buy one and it worked for all of five seconds or so before it broke apart completely.

[madd0ct0r]

and at 37 pages without an index or source appendix, I'm guessing the author has never written above high school level standards.

In that case, and in view of the awful font choice, I'm raising my offer to $10 a page.

[TimothyC]

It would help, alol LOT, if you DIDN'T call it a manifesto. ;)

Really, everyone should know that ALL the famous manifestos were written by terrorists & sociopaths :roll:

call it something benign, like The Diary of Democracy (Frank) or the Democracy Rulebook for Dummies. :lol:

Tirade would perhaps be more accurate - and yes it has even worse connotations.

I'll quote a block of choice silliness for you all (from page 8)

For instance, in a typical capitalist company, a worker may produce a shirt that costs $20, but may only receive $5 back for his hard work. The remainder is taken by the capitalist who doesn't produce anything. This is exploitation, plain and simple.

Nevermind it is the capitalist who provides the facilities and materiel for the worker to produce the shirt would it? Facilitating the production of the shirt is the capitalist's work.

I salute this poster however for managing to screw up the document enough that the PDF can't be copy-pasted from.

I noticed your location. You wouldn't be that occupy blogger whom sat behind me at a Panara bread at Horton Plaza while I was explaining some of the silliness of the occupy movement to my family about a week and a half ago would you?

[Panzersharkcat]

For instance, in a typical capitalist company, a worker may produce a shirt that costs $20, but may only receive $5 back for his hard work. The remainder is taken by the capitalist who doesn't produce anything. This is exploitation, plain and simple.

Nevermind it is the capitalist who provides the facilities and materiel for the worker to produce the shirt would it? Facilitating the production of the shirt is the capitalist's work.

Not to mention figuring out who and where to sell the shirts and in what quantities in order to keep the facility profitable and expand further operation.

[Simon_Jester]

It doesn't help that he spelled his manifesto "Democractic" in the thread title.

So he can stiff the Clown Guild on membership dues, of course. If there's no money then they can't very well expect him to pay. Simon, why are you such a clown apologist? Why do you hate freedom so much?

The freedom, it burns my eyes!

Oh, wait. That's the clown makeup. I should quit wearing that shit.

[Zaune]

You wouldn't be that occupy blogger whom sat behind me at a Panara bread at Horton Plaza while I was explaining some of the silliness of the occupy movement to my family about a week and a half ago would you?

Having been working with the movement here in Windsor since November, I feel honour-bound to point out that we represent a pretty broad spectrum of political and socioeconomic thought and that most of us are no more extremist in our thinking than this very board. I mean, we could hardly claim to be representing the interests of 99% of the human race if we excluded crackpots, idiots and wishful thinkers.
But that's a topic that deserves its own thread. Anyway...

I'm afraid I have to echo the earlier comments about the formatting. The essay desperately needs to be subdivided a bit for easier navigation; once you hit around 1000 to 1250 words it's best to start a new chapter, but that's not a hard and fast rule. I don't know what software you're using to create a PDF, but if you can't set it up so that there's a chapter list at the side of the page then it's best to make each chapter a separate file; this saves you a lot of scrolling up and down if you want to edit a particular line as well, actually.
madd0ct0r has already pointed out the lack of a source index. It's best just to list your sources at the end of each chapter with numbered footnotes, and if at all possible a hyperlink taking the reader straight there. If you're writing with the intention of putting this out in dead-tree format, there are numerous link-shortening services like TinyURL out there. Use these sparingly, though, and only where necesary: http://www.amazon.com/No-Contest-Case-Against-Competition/dp/0395631254/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b would be a royal pain to type by hand, but http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky or http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Inequality&Health.htm are fine as they are.

As far as the actual content goes, I'm nowhere near done reading yet, but there are some good points in here so far. You do a pretty good job of describing the difference between what Myles Horton called "political democracy" and "economic democracy". (The analogy he used was that it's all very well changing the law so a black man can go buy a burger in any diner in the South, but it doesn't amount to much if no black people can afford a burger.) Your proposed solutions... well, a couple of people have touched on that already, and I'll come back my own comments on that when I'm done.

[mr friendly guy]

In defense of Democracy Fanboy ... the text is really not that difficult to read (in reference to CC's statement) and its not like you can't simply download from scrib the pdf which at 37 pages can't have that many megabytes (in reference to another poster who said its difficult to copy, which it is). It would be easier if you use the original manifesto, which presumably is on some type of word processor and copy it onto the board so its easier for us to reply to, because sometimes scrib takes time to load the full article.

That being said I find it interesting you said it was originally intended to be a book when it turned out to be a mere 8000+ words. A lot of fan fiction has more words than that.

Oh, about the article in question. Oh yes, feedback. Well I don't have the time to read such a thing and make a detailed reply, nor will I likely to when in your OP you suggest we should scrap money. Now if I had more time I might be inclined to, but I believe others have already given you some feedback.

[PeZook]

Getting rid of money has another advantage, for it willaccelerate technological innovation and production. Our currentmoney-based economy stagnates technological development, becausecertain technologies are considered too expensive. A non-moneyeconomy also means that more people have access to advanced,environmentally friendly technology (e.g. hybrid cars and solarenergy).

I see what you did here.

No money = nothing is too expensive!



Aren't Americans supposed to learn economics in high school or something?

[VarrusTheEthical]

We are right to think this system of government is ideal.Democracy liberates and equalizes those who participate in it.

No, "We" are not right to think that Democracy is ideal. Pure Democracy would empower the majority to tyrannize the minority.

The problem is that we do not really live in a democracy.

No, Shit. Anyone who isn't completely ignorant of American government would understand that.

The political theory I will advocate in this book actually goes by more than one name. Some call it socialism while others call it anarchy. These are equally accurate terms, but since the words "socialism" and "anarchy" have negative connotations in America's political culture (with the former erroneously beingassociated with big government and the latter with violentchaos), I will stick with "democracy".

I call it bullshit. Labeling your poorly thought-out utopianism as "democracy" does not make it any less bullshit.

and it will allow us to fully realize the dream our Founding Fathers fought for: the dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

The Founding Fathers were not monolithic in their beliefs, nor did they all have a unified dream of the country beyond independence from Great Britain. And many only supported independence reluctantly.

If you were not so completely ignorant of American history, you would understand that most of the Founding Fathers would have abhorred the kind of "democracy" that you're advocating.

[TimothyC]

You wouldn't be that occupy blogger whom sat behind me at a Panara bread at Horton Plaza while I was explaining some of the silliness of the occupy movement to my family about a week and a half ago would you?

Having been working with the movement here in Windsor since November, I feel honour-bound to point out that we represent a pretty broad spectrum of political and socioeconomic thought and that most of us are no more extremist in our thinking than this very board. I mean, we could hardly claim to be representing the interests of 99% of the human race if we excluded crackpots, idiots and wishful thinkers.

In my own defense I did point out that some of the things (Like re-instituting Glass-Steagall) made sense and were good ideas, but that they didn't reign in the fringe was going to be problematic for them.

As for the document, I used the export that scribd offered, and the text, while it looked right didn't copy-paste worth a damn.

[Democracy Fanboy]

Nevermind it is the capitalist who provides the facilities and materiel for the worker to produce the shirt would it? Facilitating the production of the shirt is the capitalist's work.

And how does he get the money to buy those facilities and materials? By exploiting other workers!

[CaptainChewbacca]

I see what you did here.

No money = nothing is too expensive!



Aren't Americans supposed to learn economics in high school or something?

Usually senior year of highschool, something makes me think that this kid is younger than 18.

[TimothyC]

Aren't Americans supposed to learn economics in high school or something?

Usually senior year of highschool, something makes me think that this kid is younger than 18.

But it isn't required - and I wouldn't put it past a guy who claims to be an anthropology student to not take econ in high school.

And how does he get the money to buy those facilities and materials? By exploiting other workers!

That's your defense?

What if he works his way from the ground floor up? What if after working hard he becomes a manager, and from there he invests wisely and then becomes a capitalist? I got bored reading though your screed so would you explain how you plan on solving the problems of distribution and production without capitalism? On a fundamental level, How do you set the prices?

You claim to want to get rid of money, but all production has costs - be they material, energy, labor, or even just opportunity cost of not producing something else.

[Mr. Coffee]

Ok, Mods, Dalton, can we keep this kid around for a while? I ain't seen genuine crazy ignorant like this on the board for a while... He's dumber than a sack of hammers, but the kid's got entertainment potential.

[Democracy Fanboy]

To be honest, I just posted this to get a reaction out of people, but seeing that few people want to read through the whole thing, I guess it was worthless. In retrospect, what I did was probably trolling, so I apologize for that behavior and will leave this forum.

Politics is not my greatest passion anyway.

[weemadando]

You call yourself democracy fanboy and have written a manifesto, but politics isn't your passion?

Quick! To the way back-pedalling machine!

[Akhlut]

Dude, if you're for abolishing money and want power completely distributed among the entire citizenry, you may as well just reprint Marx and Engels. They managed to get that out in 40ish pages (depending on font, margins, etc.) and they did it a lot better than you did about 160 years prior to you.


ADDENDUM: Democracy Fanboy, don't take much of what is said to heart. If you're sincere, you're not really trolling, but you're work is flawed. SDN is rather notorious for the insults, so just ignore those, but if you're really looking for feedback, read what people are saying. Also, I could only get about 3 pages into your manifesto because the pages all blanked out from 4-37, at least for me. I'd say trim the fat as much as possible (go ahead and rip out that intro about spreading democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance) and rework what's left. Changing your political ideas isn't some horrible betrayal of anything, it's usually changing your ideas based on new knowledge so that you can make things work out better.

But, hey, if you wanna quit, I sure as shit can't stop you.

Going off of what Simon_Jester said, how exactly will you make an economy run without money? It evolved for a reason: to facilitate exchange. So much of modern economic exchange would be impossible without it. Most of the world would starve to death. For example, a doctor in a monetary system would be paid in money for his services and go out and buy whatever he wants to buy. If he's in a barter system, he'd have to find people with telescopes who need root canals and people with sweaters who need fillings and so forth. Even worse, he'd have to get a large number of, say, apples in order for it to be worth his time, labor, and skills. He'd have to then exchange those apples for other things he needs or wants, like a telescope. He'd be forced to be a dentist and an apple salesman. Division of labor would completely collapse.

To be fair, barter as a system apparently never actually existed. Among hunter-gatherer groups and prior to actual money economies (which was apparently most of Medieval era and prior, as most people weren't actually handling money, especially outside of cities), people relied mostly on tit-for-tat trade systems along the lines of "I'll give you some product of my work now for future access to some of your goods," which would allow for relatively complex divisions of labor, but it would be a lot more difficult to manage in modern industrial economies. However, no one apparently had to directly trade apples for medical care, and then the doctor didn't have to trade apples for items more useful to him. Rather, you'd go to your healthcare provider, get medical care, and then at some point later in time, he'd call in a favor from you. It was basically a lot like dealing with extended family and friends groups (big surprise there, considering that's all it was, really). So, barter likely wouldn't make an appearance, because it's a pain in the ass for all involved; it'd likely turn into a huge morass of people owing favors to each other that are called in once the time is right. (concise source, who links to more indepth sources)

Not that that is necessarily a good thing, but it's not quite the same thing as a full-on barter economy.

[Simon_Jester]

Implementing what Akhlut's talking about on a civilization-wide scale is what the left might call "true communism:" the idea that everyone makes what's needed, and takes what they need, and it all balances out.

True communism has never been implemented successfully, so far as I know, on any large scale. It seems to start breaking down when the commune gets large enough that the average member of the community can't keep track of who's contributing and who's a freeloader, so as to put pressure on the freeloaders.

If you can't just memorize who's freeloading, you really need some kind of token or bookkeeping system. It can be shiny beads or bricks of salt or memos stamped into clay tablets or hunks of silver with the king's face engraved on them, but there has to be something.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Any way you can turn that thing into bullet-points of what you'd change?