Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Surlethe »

A review from WORLD magazine.

I put it here not because of the movie review, but because it's interesting to look at how the religious right views popular media. On the one hand, we can have people here say that the US entertainment industry is intrinsically Christian, and on the other we can have WORLD magazine saying that it's intrinsically secular and atheistic.

Anyway, read on. The interesting parts are highlighted.
British director Guy Ritchie's brawling take on literature's most famous detective will no doubt disappoint traditionalists who prefer their Sherlock Holmes reserved, academic, and well-scrubbed. We never hear the phrase "elementary, my dear Watson," pass Robert Downey Jr.'s lips, and the Holmes he presents would be unlikely ever to utter it.

Instead Ritchie and Downey give us a loopy, half-mad (though still brilliant) churl, whose dependence on Dr. Watson (Jude Law) borders on pathological and who may or may not suffer from a touch of manic depression along with his well-documented drug addiction. When he does manage to leave his cluttered horde of possessions in the rooms at 221b Baker Street, he still reasons his way through most dilemmas, but pairs that reason with serious action chops. To wit, Holmes' amazing powers of deduction are put to an updated use: discerning step-by-step how to physically disable opponents mere seconds before raining the carefully considered blows down upon their heads. It's a thrilling bit of directorial prowess on Ritchie's part when he shows Holmes envisioning how the fistfights will play out before he shows them actually occurring.

These are the bits that will, to borrow an English phrase, get some knickers in a twist. The ironic thing for those who grew up adoring Basil Rathbone's characterization is that this messy, arrogant, eccentric Holmes is in many ways more true to the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle's creation than the protagonist they remember. As narrator, Watson described Holmes' apartment as "bohemian" and at least two of Arthur Conan Doyle's novels described the erudite sleuth as a formidable boxer and martial arts expert. So take that, all those who object (and I have run into many since the trailers started airing) to an "action figure" Sherlock.

Indeed, without the good fun of a fighting Sherlock, there would be little other reason to see this film. The interplay between Downey and Law, who each turn in wonderfully quirky performances, combined with spectacular visual effects also help make it worth a trip to the theater, but its disjointed mess of a plot is the last element that's going to win anyone over.

Whenever screenwriters seem at a loss for how to set up a mystery in a Victorian-era film, satanic worship somehow comes into play, and Sherlock Holmes is no exception. The MPAA rates it PG-13 for violence and "suggestive scenes" (primarily a woman in a nightgown about to be sacrificed in some unspecified ritualistic manner), but Christian parents may object to quotations taken from Revelation for little apparent reason other than amping up the chill factor.

When the nefarious Lord Blackwood (Mark Strong) appears to return from the dead to bring his followers the power of the underworld, Holmes and Watson must follow a trail of circus freakery including "ginger midgets," toothless giants, and tables piled with sawn-off swine parts to discover the secret of his resurrection.

In an end that could hardly be called a spoiler, Holmes demonstrates that rationality triumphs over all and that Blackwood's evil machinations are little more than trickery. It hardly seems worth analyzing a plot so frivolous, but its basis is a wholly material worldview. Given how much dialogue makes use of biblical passages describing the beast and the heralds that will signal Armageddon, the fact that Blackwood manages to harness public fear with nothing more than advanced chemistry rings a subtle atheistic note.

Believers looking for discussion elements will know that the truth doesn't end with Holmes' blithe pronouncements, however intelligently rendered. The spiritual world presents far more threat than we see here, and though Blackwood and his followers fear only the noose, the law, and Sherlock Holmes, their dabbling in occult practices could, in the real world, have far more dire outcomes.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Themightytom »

Eh intellectual rationality will always be the enemy of spirituality.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Believers looking for discussion elements will know that the truth doesn't end with Holmes' blithe pronouncements, however intelligently rendered. The spiritual world presents far more threat than we see here, and though Blackwood and his followers fear only the noose, the law, and Sherlock Holmes, their dabbling in occult practices could, in the real world, have far more dire outcomes.
I thought this article wasn't too bad up until this point. Frankly I thought it was pretty straight forward in the film that Holmes didn't believe in the supernatural or religion. Even after he tried reproducing Blackwood's methods by following the instructions in his 'book of spells.'
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Oskuro »

Surlethe wrote:The spiritual world presents far more threat than we see here, and though Blackwood and his followers fear only the noose, the law, and Sherlock Holmes, their dabbling in occult practices could, in the real world, have far more dire outcomes.
So this means that the world presented in the movie is fictitional because the occult is false. In the real world using an ouija has actual ramifications, but all proof of that being false is just fictional.

I'd say it is mind boggling, but really, these types live in a world of their own, so it is hardly surprising.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Isn't that alot of Sherlock Holme's though? I mean, in the "Hound of the Baskervilles", the ghost hound in question turned out to be a really big dog whose face was painted with phosphorous (19th century medical knowledging being what it was, no one saw a problem with this), so that it glowed after light was shone on it, and even before they made that determination, the solution they came up with was Watson shooting it. Was that subtly athiestic too?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Gil Hamilton wrote:Isn't that alot of Sherlock Holme's though? I mean, in the "Hound of the Baskervilles", the ghost hound in question turned out to be a really big dog whose face was painted with phosphorous (19th century medical knowledging being what it was, no one saw a problem with this), so that it glowed after light was shone on it, and even before they made that determination, the solution they came up with was Watson shooting it. Was that subtly athiestic too?
What? Rediculous any educated person knows that ghosts aren't real, we're talking about spirituality man! The existence of the supernatural in the real world!

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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Themightytom wrote:What? Rediculous any educated person knows that ghosts aren't real, we're talking about spirituality man! The existence of the supernatural in the real world!
Shut up until you can contribute something meaningful. You're apparently not even aware that fundamentalists often attribute "ghost" and UFO activity to the work of spiritual agents, especially demons.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Believers looking for discussion elements will know that the truth doesn't end with Holmes' blithe pronouncements, however intelligently rendered. The spiritual world presents far more threat than we see here, and though Blackwood and his followers fear only the noose, the law, and Sherlock Holmes, their dabbling in occult practices could, in the real world, have far more dire outcomes
I suppose whoever wrote this is unaware of the irony of accusing Sherlock Holmes of promoting atheism, while superimposing their own beliefs onto the "real world" and treating them as fact.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by mingo »

If I recall my past reading of Conan-Doyle correctly, Holmes was less than subtle about his atheism. Therefore it's not the "secular media" coloring Sherlock Holmes, but the AUTHOR doing so. Also, the remark that occult practices leading to "more dire consequences" indicates some belieif in those practices.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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I personally find it interesting that Holmes, as a character, was a rationalist and skeptic, whereas his creator was a mystic and spiritualist who promoted seances and was taken in by the Cottingley Fairy pictures. Of course, Holmes himself was a very unusual person by the standards of the time; look at the way Watson dismisses Holmes' epigraph on "deductive" reasoning (Actually inductive, but that's an old error) in A Study in Scarlet.

I think that Holmes, as a character, is such an example of the skeptic and rationalist, that the majority of stories involving him and the supernatural end up with debunking all around. I fondly remember an anthology of Lovecraft/Holmes mashups/horror pastiches, wherein at least three of the stories, and among the best, were ultimately non-supernatural. Young Sherlock Holmes also took this route, with a hallucinogen accounting for the mysterious deaths. On that account, we also have "The Adventure of the Devil's Foot" and "The Adventure of the Sussex Vampire", which are two short stories where a supernatural presumption turns out to have a natural explanation, much like in Hound of the Baskervilles.

Holmes himself is far too rational as a character, or as people's imaginings of him, to be readily part of the supernatural. Even Zelazny's A Night in the Lonesome October, which features Holmes heavily, has him ignorant of the supernatural goings-on initially. It's no surprise that the new movie presents a skeptic Holmes, and only intensifies my desire to see it.

Of course, it's also no surprise that fundamentalist Christians complain about atheism in the movie industry at the same time as atheists mention the Christianity of the film industry. Much of film tends to be Christian or religious in character, while simultaneously being critical of organized religion. There is no contradiction here, but fundamentalists take any criticism of traditional Christianity as an anti-Christian (and therefore atheist) message. Of course, there are also people who are upset that every film doesn't include gratuitous scenes wherein Christianity is glorified, much like in the Avatar thread, or CAPAlert's infamous movie reviews. I do wonder why it is that fundamentalists feel that every movie should become propaganda. I suspect that it's tied in with their common persecution complexes, of course, much like Christian rock and other Christian media.

Of course, if they're looking for a reason to venerate Holmes, A Study in Scarlet has an entire chapter of Mormon-bashing, which ought to be enjoyable for the majority of Protestant and Catholic fundies.
mingo wrote:If I recall my past reading of Conan-Doyle correctly, Holmes was less than subtle about his atheism. Therefore it's not the "secular media" coloring Sherlock Holmes, but the AUTHOR doing so. Also, the remark that occult practices leading to "more dire consequences" indicates some believe in those practices.
Eh? As far as I'm aware, there is little to nothing about Holmes' or Watson's religions in the stories by Doyle. Doyle himself was a fairly devout Catholic. I do know that there is Sherlockiana devoted to the religious background of Holmes and Watson, and at the very least he would have to be a public Christian in the 1880s-1910s, if only for the sake of remaining part of polite society. He does quote the Bible often, but that is not a particular indication of anything beyond being well-read.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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The spiritual world presents far more threat than we see here, and though Blackwood and his followers fear only the noose, the law, and Sherlock Holmes, their dabbling in occult practices could, in the real world, have far more dire outcomes.
Because as we all know, magic, curses and spirits are real. :roll:

It came as quite a shock to me that religions actually believe evil magician satanist types are real, though thinking about it, if they denied that, they'd have to admit that the devil has no real power and then they're on shaky theological ground.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Since Holmes deals with logic and deduction, it would be nearly impossible for him to accept a supernatural cause, by definition. What's he supposed to do? Every time there's no way a crime could have been committed based on evidence at hand, say 'oh well, the devil did it'? The whole point of his investigation and focus on details and logic is to solve apparently unsolvable crimes, not give up and say 'god did it'.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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There is also this...
Spoiler
It is heavily implied during the final battle between Blackwood and Holmes that the villian's grisly death by hanging was due to some kind of supernatural vengence for dabbling in the occult under false pretenses.

...Which seems to derail the article's argument.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Why? The crow is just a symbol of death (or Blackwoods puppetmaster). I don't recall anything supernatural at all, just comic irony.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Why? The crow is just a symbol of death (or Blackwoods puppetmaster). I don't recall anything supernatural at all, just comic irony.
A crow that just happens to conveniently follow the villian around the whole movie while he's allegedly doing Satan's work? Strikes me as being a tad suspicious. :wink:
Spoiler
Also, Holmes did say something in the end scene more or less to the effect of "well its too bad that you weren't serious about all that occult stuff, becuase you performed the ritual perfectly," right before the crow was shown skulking around and Blackwood was killed by a chain apparently breaking free on its own. Supernatural involvement was pretty heavily implied IIRC.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Stark »

I don't remember any chain 'breaking free on it's own', they were on a dangerous elevated construction site. Did the devil make Blackwood bizarrely push Stupid Woman off right above a ledge, as well?

Blackwood was never described as doing 'satans work'. He's an I Can't Believe It's Not Freemasonry guy, not a devil worshipper.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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Blackwood was never described as doing 'satans work'. He's an I Can't Believe It's Not Freemasonry guy, not a devil worshipper.
lol. You know what I meant.
I don't remember any chain 'breaking free on it's own', they were on a dangerous elevated construction site.
All I'm saying is that it was fairly obvious that the director was going for the "woooooo spooky" angle with the bird. Given the fact that Holmes never offered a rational explanation for the thing, and actually half-jokingly made reference to some sort of supernatural "revenge" being imposed on Blackwood as the ritual was "perfectly executed" right before the bird appeared and Blackwood met an unexpectedly iconic demise, it would seem that it was being implied that something supernatural might have been at play.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Stark »

That's undeniable; I took the view that it was supposed to suggest OMG DEVILZ at the start, but was actually in some was Moriarty related. It's not an uncommon device.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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I get the feeling that the writer of the article is the kind of hardcore fundie who thinks that nothing short of God's almighty left nut bashing the villian in the face for his heresy counts as anything other than atheistic propaganda.

Well maybe not but I mean that what this kind of person wants is a damn pro-Christian sermon in their movies.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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mingo wrote:If I recall my past reading of Conan-Doyle correctly, Holmes was less than subtle about his atheism. Therefore it's not the "secular media" coloring Sherlock Holmes, but the AUTHOR doing so. Also, the remark that occult practices leading to "more dire consequences" indicates some belieif in those practices.
Not really. Holmes has attributed to a "Creator" before, making what could be attributed to be deist statements if not Christian.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

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I took the view that it was supposed to suggest OMG DEVILZ at the start, but was actually in some was Moriarty related.
I dunno, I guess that it could be. Has Moriarty ever been associated with crows before? I never read the novels.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Pelranius »

Knobbyboy88 wrote:
I took the view that it was supposed to suggest OMG DEVILZ at the start, but was actually in some was Moriarty related.
I dunno, I guess that it could be. Has Moriarty ever been associated with crows before? I never read the novels.
No, but Moriarty could arguably be associated with celestial bodies via his paper on asteroids. If you really want to go on a limb, you can link him to all sorts of mythological stuff via that association.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Stark »

Knobbyboy88 wrote:
I took the view that it was supposed to suggest OMG DEVILZ at the start, but was actually in some was Moriarty related.
I dunno, I guess that it could be. Has Moriarty ever been associated with crows before? I never read the novels.
Not to my knowledge; but my impression was that at first the crow was a sign of the evil magic going on, but at the end it returns, now not a messenger but a master, to oversee Blackwood's death. I quite liked the change in role, but never considered it to be anything supernatural.

Moriarty never had a useless spring-loaded gun for no reason either. He was a super genuis, not Neo.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Drooling Iguana »

Knobbyboy88 wrote:Spoiler
Also, Holmes did say something in the end scene more or less to the effect of "well its too bad that you weren't serious about all that occult stuff, becuase you performed the ritual perfectly," right before the crow was shown skulking around and Blackwood was killed by a chain apparently breaking free on its own. Supernatural involvement was pretty heavily implied IIRC.
Spoiler
Actually, the quote was more along the lines of "You'd better hope that this is all just baseless superstition because you performed the ritual perfectly and, if the occult has any basis in fact, the Devil now has claim to your soul."

And I think we can just ascribe the crow to poetic imagery. Hell, there was nothing to show that it was the same crow in every instance and there are a lot of crows in London, so it's not a stretch to assume that there'd be at least one present for a given event. The only thing unusual about the crow was that the camera chose to focus on it.
Stark wrote:Moriarty never had a useless spring-loaded gun for no reason either. He was a super genuis, not Neo.
Even if it was never specifically mentioned in the books, it would make sense for an organised crime boss like Moriarty to be armed.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes "subtly atheistic"

Post by Stark »

Armed with a shit 2-shot gun on a bizarre clockwork extension, when he's a quiet professor of politics who manipulates much of the world?

Seriously, Moriarty plays a totally different game than you think he does. He fought Holmes hand-to-hand when Holmes tracked him down, even though he had armed henchmen. Oops.
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