The Borg in Star Trek?

[Gurgeh]

Suppose by Q the Borg Collective assimilate an entire Venator-class Star Destroyer during the height of the clone wars. With the ship under their controll how do you think they will terrorize the galaxy?

[Darth Tanner]

Oh dear.... oh well might as well...

Which Galaxy?

If Star Wars then there are plenty of much larger vessels or simply other venators to blast the Borg to bits after they give their usual diplomatic spiel.

If Trek then the Borg gain a major fire-power and speed advantage for the single ship they control... which they in effect already have over most of the other species but are too stupid to use. Maybe they use it to wipe out 8472?

[Borgholio]

Ok I'll bite. If the Borg fully assimilate the power generation, weapon systems, shielding, and hyperdrive of a Star Destroyer, then they would be unstoppable in any conflict they became involved in in the Milky Way.

However, it has been pointed out that the Borg don't just assimilate anything in their path. Otherwise, the galaxy would have been under their control centuries prior. It could also be argued that the Borg would ignore the rest of the galaxy as they are now technologically inferior...and they have been known to ignore inferior species.

As far as the SW galaxy, there are ships much bigger even than a cube. With all the galaxy at a technological parity, there are no uber-advanced techs the Borg can assimilate to get an advantage. Their only hope is to find an uninhabited part of the galaxy and set up several large factory worlds to churn out enough ships to overwhelm the Republic / Empire. And that...would be a tall order.

[biostem]

Another important point, (using my admittedly limited knowledge of things), is that Imperial crew don't seem to be the "jack of all trades" that Starfleet has - so assimilating a bridge officer doesn't give you engineering or communications knowledge - it'd be a longer process to gain full knowledge of the vessel.

If we're assuming that Q just snapped his fingers and all the crew on the Star destroyer were turned into Borg, then yeah - the AQ would be FUBAR'd. The ST galaxy would probably lose a few ships initially, trying to fight the rogue SD via normal means, until they ganged up on it...

[Batman]

Call me silly but when somebody says 'assimilate an entire Venator-class Star Destroyer' I kinda assume that means assimilating its crew too, which guess what, definitely does know how to operate the ship?

[Eternal_Freedom]

True. Trouble is, as powerful as a Venator is compared to ST, it's a light destroyer/carrier by SW standards. The Borg knowing how to build the technology will do them little good when they are soooo far behind the other galactic powers in sheer numbers.

[Batman]

Oh they're definitely screwed on the Wars side, I was commenting on biostem's idiotic 'so assimilating a bridge officer doesn't give you engineering or communications knowledge'.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well he's right in that only assimilating senior officers won't be of as much use as it would on a ST ship. Still, unless the rest of the crew sacrifice themselves there will be plenty of new drones with useful knowledge appearing soon.

[Batman]

'Entire' Venator-class. Call me silly but to me that includes the crew.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well it may not necessarily. If Q just gives them the ship then the crew aren't included. Since some EU works claim that many Venators were just left adrift in space (stupid as that is) it's not inconceivable that the Borg might find one abandoned.

It doesn't change things whether the crew is aboard anyway. If the assimilated Venator is in the SW galaxy the Borg are fucked as they are absurdly outnumbered/outgunned by everyone else. If it's given to them in the ST universe, everyone else is still fucked even if the Borg take longer to figure out the systems.

[Havok]

Does a Venator-Class carry specs on other ships? Data banks? Location of data banks?

The Borg aren't stupid. They wouldn't just start go blazing a path of destruction. They would bide their time, build up whatever they needed to and start trying to figure out a way back to the collective.

[Darth Tanner]

Since some EU works claim that many Venators were just left adrift in space (stupid as that is) it's not inconceivable that the Borg might find one abandoned.

Why on earth would that be the case? Which EU does that sort of thing appear in?

Does a Venator-Class carry specs on other ships? Data banks? Location of data banks?

It would stand to reason that the databanks and droids on-board would have the information to at a minimum repair the ship which would include technical plans and schematics for most of the technology. The droids at least should have quite a wide database of different designs of vessel and technologies.

I'm pretty sure the chief engineer and his staff are going to have quite a wide range of skills and in-depth knowledge of Star Wars level engineering.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Since some EU works claim that many Venators were just left adrift in space (stupid as that is) it's not inconceivable that the Borg might find one abandoned.

Why on earth would that be the case? Which EU does that sort of thing appear in?

Well it's from the wiki:

"After the end of the Clone Wars, many Republic Venators were abandoned and left to drift in space. Several of these vessels fell into the hands of the Mandalorians, the Zann Consortium, and various pirate groups. By this time, the vessel was considered obsolete, but Venators were available for purchase from several merchants[7] who gained the ships after the Empire sold many of them as scrap metal." That single citation is for Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, so mke of that what you will.

[Darth Tanner]

Ah the shit add-on pack to EaW where second rate pirates can challenge the Empire in open battle.

I can understand them being sold as scrap.. being left adrift in a state that pirates could take them over seems stupid to an extent I can't even grasp. They would have to have actually gone out of their way to abandon them in space to pick up the crew with another ship rather than just park the venator off at the scrap yard itself.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Like I said, it's a stupid idea. But, sadly, it's there.

Of course, it doesn't make a difference since the OP said the Borg are magically given one.

I have to wonder, why a Venator specifically? Everyone in SW uses roughly similar technology: turbolasers from a CIS ship would be compatible with a Republic ship if needed, and vice versa, and later on the Rebels used captured/modified/adapted Imperial stuff. So, since assimilating just about any SW capital ship would allow the Borg to build turbolasers/ion cannons/heavy missiles/whatever, why specifically a Venator?

In most scenarios like this it's "we give xyz ship to the Federation/Klingons/Romulans" and see what happens, where the power of the individual ship is important. But since this is the Borg, it wouldn't really matter if they were given an Executor or a Carrack.

[PREDATOR490]

Borg being stranded in the Star Wars universe would only be concerned with surviving and getting back to the collective. The Borg are used to being a dominating force in their own galaxy and have sufficient power to act like they do. Being removed from that power base and faced with a galaxy that can wipe the floor with them in short order is not going to be lost on the collective. The Borg in Enterprise were shown to be trying their best to get home rather than going on a rampage with little support so I fully expect them to do the same in a Star Wars setting.

Once they get home - The Borg are going to tear the Venator to bits assimilating it's technology as best they can.

The Borg are unlikely to go on a rampage with their new toy until they have gotten everything they want from it. By then, I would assume the Borg have duplicated what they can and have gotten a sufficient edge for it to be worthwhile to deploy any new toys. The Star Trek galaxy will end up screwed to varying degrees depending on how the Borg use their new toys.

Despite what the Borg actually say, they do not assimilate EVERYTHING or EVERYONE. At best, the Federation is screwed when the next Borg cube arrives but we have never seen or heard any interest in galactic domination. At worse, the Borg could feasibly assimilate the entire Star Trek galaxy with little resistance. The Borg have had the capability to assimilate a great deal of the DQ for decades if not centuries with few powers that could resist them. I see no reason why a magical upgrade to Star Wars technology would change their desire to suddenly assimilate everything without another factor being introduced.

If the Borg manage to duplicate Star Wars tech, it is far more likely they will build up a power base and try to assimilate what interests them in the Star Wars galaxy. If we use the plot stupid Borg then they will probably send a single ship to Coruscant and demand the surrender of the entire Republic. What happens then is really dependent on how you expect the Republic to react.
Dying of laughter and thinking the Borg as an amusing attraction that can be ignored is the best the Borg could hope for. Otherwise, the Borg get slaughtered worse than S8472 could manage.

If we credit the Borg with some decent intelligence and common sense they could easily spend centuries acting like scavenging Jawas preying on easy targets in the Star Wars galaxy without being noticed or even cared about if they were. The chances are the Borg will never attain enough power to challenge the entire Star Wars galaxy and trying to do so would take so long the Borg would be radically different from any Borg we know.

[Metahive]

I can't find it but there was a thread where someone gave the Borg a fully operational Death Star to play around with. I think all the arguments that were made back then also apply here, only even moreso since a Venator is much, much weaker than the Death Star.

[The Romulan Republic]

True. Trouble is, as powerful as a Venator is compared to ST, it's a light destroyer/carrier by SW standards. The Borg knowing how to build the technology will do them little good when they are soooo far behind the other galactic powers in sheer numbers.

I think Venators are referred to as cruisers in The Clone Wars.

[Metahive]

The designations used in the Clone Wars are not necessarily the same as those being used for ship classes today. Earth cruisers were ships that could operate alone and over long distances. SW cruisers are more accurately called Ships of the Line since they participate in formations in setpiece battles.

"Star Destroyer" in itself is also a actual designation that describes a battleship/carrier combo that doesn't exist on contemporary Earth.

[Purple]

Ah the shit add-on pack to EaW where second rate pirates can challenge the Empire in open battle.

I can understand them being sold as scrap.. being left adrift in a state that pirates could take them over seems stupid to an extent I can't even grasp. They would have to have actually gone out of their way to abandon them in space to pick up the crew with another ship rather than just park the venator off at the scrap yard itself.

That actually sounds like a good plan if you think about it from the imperial perspective. Back in the early days of the empire the galaxy was probably not yet completely united and subjugated as it was during the OT. After all the imperial senate had even existed well into ANH. And the emperor would have needed a reason to keep and even improve the imperial armed forces to the point where he could do it. So little things like this that open up a back door for small time troublemakers to get their hands on just enough hardware to start being a serious nuisance is just what the doctor ordered to round up public support.

"Star Destroyer" in itself is also a actual designation that describes a battleship/carrier combo that doesn't exist on contemporary Earth.

Actually, there were some experiments with battleship-carrier hybrids back in the 40's. Most notably with the Japanese who actually converted some battleships to this role. And you could make a good argument that with their heavy anti ship missile armament all Soviet aircraft carriers fit the description.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise-class_ ... d_carriers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Ku ... r#Armament

[Batman]

Actually 'Star Destroyer' essentially means it's big, largely triangular and definitely a fighting ship. The Venators were heavily weighted towards carrier duties, the Victories were mostly cruisers, the Imperials (yes, sorry, I like that a lot better than Imperator) were jack-of-all-trade ships but still heavily weighted towards ship-to-ship combat, all that 'Star Destroyer' really stands for is a shape and size combo.

[FedRebel]

Ok I'll bite. If the Borg fully assimilate the power generation, weapon systems, shielding, and hyperdrive of a Star Destroyer, then they would be unstoppable in any conflict they became involved in in the Milky Way.

Won't be instant, Hyperdrive, etc. will require infrastructure that the Borg will have to develop from scratch. And that'll take potentially centuries given how innovatively repressed the collective is portrayed in VOY. Keep in mind Wars tech is at least 25,000 years more developed.

As far as the SW galaxy, there are ships much bigger even than a cube. With all the galaxy at a technological parity, there are no uber-advanced techs the Borg can assimilate to get an advantage. Their only hope is to find an uninhabited part of the galaxy and set up several large factory worlds to churn out enough ships to overwhelm the Republic / Empire. And that...would be a tall order.

I'd think the Borg would gravitate towards the junkyard worlds, they need infrastructure to build the fancy near tech and those places would have enough discarded examples to give them what they require to make expedient reverse engineering and manufacturing possible.

Which Republic? Clone War era, roughly same result as if they were the Empire. New Republic, similar results as the Vong invasion...as a stretch.

The Empire would near immediately assess the Borg as an invasive infestation, apply overwhelming force to the ships the Borg assimilated, turkey-shoot all Cubes, spheres (and whatever else suits the Collective's geometry fetish.) And BDZ any Borg controlled planets (plus all the junkyard planets, only way to be sure.)

[Borgholio]

Won't be instant, Hyperdrive, etc. will require infrastructure that the Borg will have to develop from scratch. And that'll take potentially centuries given how innovatively repressed the collective is portrayed in VOY. Keep in mind Wars tech is at least 25,000 years more developed.

Oh indeed, I never meant to imply it'd be instant. But given a complete and intact Imperial warship, the Borg would have a collective orgasm reverse-engineering that thing. They'd probably devote a great deal of their attention to it.

I'd think the Borg would gravitate towards the junkyard worlds, they need infrastructure to build the fancy near tech and those places would have enough discarded examples to give them what they require to make expedient reverse engineering and manufacturing possible.

Assuming that they:

A) Knew where to find such a world

B) Could get there in less than a few years.

Keep in mind that if a cube suddenly popped into the middle of the SW galaxy, it would not have any transwarp conduits to get around, so it'd be limited to ordinary warp drive. It could take years to get to another planet and if the first planet the find happens to be even a moderately-well defended one...game over immediately.

New Republic, similar results as the Vong invasion...as a stretch.

That'd be quite a stretch. Despite being politically neutered, the New Republic still had a very large navy. Hell, even the Rebel fleet from ROTJ had dozens of Stardestroyer-class ships that could lay waste to a cube.

The Empire would near immediately assess the Borg as an invasive infestation, apply overwhelming force to the ships the Borg assimilated, turkey-shoot all Cubes, spheres (and whatever else suits the Collective's geometry fetish.) And BDZ any Borg controlled planets (plus all the junkyard planets, only way to be sure.)

Pretty much. Unlike the Feds, the Imperials would not hesitate to glass a Borg-infested planet to prevent them from gaining access to it's resources.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Keep in mind that if a cube suddenly popped into the middle of the SW galaxy, it would not have any transwarp conduits to get around, so it'd be limited to ordinary warp drive. It could take years to get to another planet and if the first planet the find happens to be even a moderately-well defended one...game over immediately.

It wouldn't have access to transwarp hubs, but the transwarp coils that Borg ships use can generate conduits just fine, it's just that the conduits generated by the hub permit far faster travel.

Pretty much. Unlike the Feds, the Imperials would not hesitate to glass a Borg-infested planet to prevent them from gaining access to it's resources.

That's the thing with the Borg, there's no such thing as capturing any of their ships or planets since you'd need to eliminate every last drone to be secure. And it's not like you can take any of them prisoner either.

[Borgholio]

It wouldn't have access to transwarp hubs, but the transwarp coils that Borg ships use can generate conduits just fine, it's just that the conduits generated by the hub permit far faster travel.

True. I don't think it's explained how fast a coil can take the ship, but if it's anything close to a slow hyperdrive then that makes it a *little bit* easier for the Borg to locate a good world to assimilate.

That's the thing with the Borg, there's no such thing as capturing any of their ships or planets since you'd need to eliminate every last drone to be secure. And it's not like you can take any of them prisoner either.

Right. We never see on screen a Federation colony or planet being over-run by the Borg, so we have no idea how the Feds would deal with such a thing. I think it's safe to say that orbital bombardment is something they would hesitate to do, but any Imperial captain would give the order as soon as he received word that a colony was fully assimilated.