How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

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bilateralrope
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by bilateralrope »

malguslover wrote:i dont' think they ever attacked Alderaan
Are you saying that Alderaan wouldn't want a shield until after they get attacked ?
If so, why ?
If not, please clarify what you actually meant.

Maybe they were attacked off screen. Maybe they weren't attacked because they had a shield strong enough that any attack would be pointless, because the shield would hold out until the Republic sent a fleet to drive off the Separatists.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

You of all people are quibbling over semantics? Answer the fucking point. You said something dumb, I called you out on it, you lied about what you'd said. Drop this linguistic bullshit and address the point.

I'd also note that you've completely stopped answering Batman's posts about the area covered by the Hoth deflector shield, or his, Borgholio's and my posts about the units used. Are you conceding those points?
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

bilateralrope wrote:
malguslover wrote:i dont' think they ever attacked Alderaan
Are you saying that Alderaan wouldn't want a shield until after they get attacked ?
If so, why ?
If not, please clarify what you actually meant.

Maybe they were attacked off screen. Maybe they weren't attacked because they had a shield strong enough that any attack would be pointless, because the shield would hold out until the Republic sent a fleet to drive off the Separatists.
what i'm saying is being under the protection of the Empire for 19 years and being a peaceful planet why would they need one.

I dont think they are ever attacked during the Clone Wars (i could be wrong) and then they had 19 years of empire control why would they maintain a planetary shield?
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Batman »

Let's see...we have a civil war going on with tens of thousands of systems if not more under attack, why would anybody want a defense mechanism that makes it if not impossible then at the very least really hard for any opposing force to hurt your planet.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:You of all people are quibbling over semantics? Answer the fucking point. You said something dumb, I called you out on it, you lied about what you'd said. Drop this linguistic bullshit and address the point.

I'd also note that you've completely stopped answering Batman's posts about the area covered by the Hoth deflector shield, or his, Borgholio's and my posts about the units used. Are you conceding those points?
dah fuck?? No no no no. I'm not letting you pull this bullshit. You missquoted me and lied. You then tried to for the past 2 pages claim that you quoted me.

I showed you the definition of the word quote and now you are trying to say its fucking schematics?

What point that you have no fucking clue to what a quote is? That i didn't understand what your misquote meant?

No i didn't I answered Batman's question about the deflector shield. I said it didn't matter if it was 100 square miles its still not even close to a significant portion of the planet like Borgholio claimed.

You haven't made a point about the units. You tried to lie
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Batman wrote:Let's see...we have a civil war going on with tens of thousands of systems if not more under attack, why would anybody want a defense mechanism that makes it if not impossible then at the very least really hard for any opposing force to hurt your planet.
19 years ago there was a civil war.
edit yeah i know the opening crawl but nothing has really happend yet remember the Rebels had just one their first victory

But I agree with the point. Yeah there was a huge civil war so why didn't the following planets that were invaded have a planetary shield?

Geonosis
Manadlore
Kamino
Kashyyyk
Umbra

edit Hey cool i fixed the double negative for you Batman!
Last edited by malguslover on 2014-04-29 10:39pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

malguslover wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:You of all people are quibbling over semantics? Answer the fucking point. You said something dumb, I called you out on it, you lied about what you'd said. Drop this linguistic bullshit and address the point.

I'd also note that you've completely stopped answering Batman's posts about the area covered by the Hoth deflector shield, or his, Borgholio's and my posts about the units used. Are you conceding those points?
dah fuck?? No no no no. I'm not letting you pull this bullshit. You missquoted me and lied. You then tried to for the past 2 pages claim that you quoted me.

I showed you the definition of the word quote and now you are trying to say its fucking schematics?

What point that you have no fucking clue to what a quote is? That i didn't understand what your misquote meant?

No i didn't I answered Batman's question about the deflector shield. I said it didn't matter if it was 100 square miles its still not even close to a significant portion of the planet like Borgholio claimed.

You haven't made a point about the units. You tried to lie
I took exactly what you had said and pointed out the obvious error. That is a quote

And yes, we did make a point about the units. You said there was no proof they used the metric system, so we provided evidence and quotes that they did indeed use the metric system, in a manner consistent with the visuals.

Who's lying now? That would be you.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Batman »

Thank you for stating that all of those planets did have a planetary shield (double negatives are a bitch).
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
I took exactly what you had said and pointed out the obvious error. That is a quote
YOU didn't take exactly what i fucking wrote!!!! You misquoted me!

And yes, we did make a point about the units. You said there was no proof they used the metric system, so we provided evidence and quotes that they did indeed use the metric system, in a manner consistent with the visuals.

Who's lying now? That would be you.
Oh this is fucking perfet. RIGHT HERE WE SEE IT!!! You are doing it again. You either are really fucking stupid and lack basic reading comprehension or you are just a fucking dumb ass.

I never once said there was no proof they used the metric system i said
What else could they use? Umm I don't know space units? If you really want to stick with the metric system which of course there is no proof of that how about Hectometers?
I said there was no proof that they used the metric system in that scene You know the one where you tried to lie and say they used 17.28 km. The scene you fucking lied about.
It's called basic reading comprehension
never said there wasn't But why do you think meters are the only source of measurement?
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Batman wrote:Thank you for stating that all of those planets did have a planetary shield (double negatives are a bitch).
wow there are some issues with people on this board.

Sure claim that as a victory for you

But can you tell me why a single planet on that list doesn't have a planetary shield?

and i'm heading out for the evening good day gentlemen and gentlewomen
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

malguslover wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
I took exactly what you had said and pointed out the obvious error. That is a quote
YOU didn't take exactly what i fucking wrote!!!! You misquoted me!
No I did not. I have repeatedly quoted exactly what you said and pointed out your error. You have repeatedly tried to weasel out of it by saying, variously, that I missread you, or that it "wasn't what I meant to say" or that I missquoted you which I clearly have not done.

And yes, we did make a point about the units. You said there was no proof they used the metric system, so we provided evidence and quotes that they did indeed use the metric system, in a manner consistent with the visuals.

Who's lying now? That would be you.
Oh this is fucking perfet. RIGHT HERE WE SEE IT!!! You are doing it again. You either are really fucking stupid and lack basic reading comprehension or you are just a fucking dumb ass.

I never once said there was no proof they used the metric system i said
What else could they use? Umm I don't know space units? If you really want to stick with the metric system which of course there is no proof of that how about Hectometers?
I said there was no proof that they used the metric system in that scene You know the one where you tried to lie and say they used 17.28 km. The scene you fucking lied about.
It's called basic reading comprehension
Emphasis in your quote mine. Why would they use the metric system in one scene but not in another. Can you present one single piece of evidence that they weren't using kiolmetres in that scene, or that they use sometihng other than the metric system elsewhere?
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Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

At any rate I'm done for the night. We'll see if you've developed a brain by morning.
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Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Batman »

I'm sorry, you just claimed every last one of them did.
But if we assume for the time being that was the result of you being too stupid to properly use the English language (which let's face it, it was) how about those planets being seriously affected in ways that could've been prevented by them getting planetary shields motivated them to get, I dunno, planetary shields?
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by bilateralrope »

malguslover wrote:
bilateralrope wrote:
malguslover wrote:i dont' think they ever attacked Alderaan
Are you saying that Alderaan wouldn't want a shield until after they get attacked ?
If so, why ?
If not, please clarify what you actually meant.

Maybe they were attacked off screen. Maybe they weren't attacked because they had a shield strong enough that any attack would be pointless, because the shield would hold out until the Republic sent a fleet to drive off the Separatists.
what i'm saying is being under the protection of the Empire for 19 years and being a peaceful planet why would they need one.

I dont think they are ever attacked during the Clone Wars (i could be wrong) and then they had 19 years of empire control why would they maintain a planetary shield?
Maybe they don't trust the Empire. I doubt that the Death Star was the first time the Empire used genocide to scare people into staying in line.
Maybe the major cost is the installation, but upkeep is comparatively cheap, so there is no incentive to remove it.
Maybe removing the shield generators is going to be expensive.
Maybe there are some criminal groups around that the shield easily deals with not that the major cost of installing the shield has already been paid.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Esquire »

Right, look, it's like this:

You admit that there is a shield on Hoth, right? Not a planetary shield, just a shield on a planet, whatever the difference is supposed to be. From ROTJ we know that a single shield generator on Endor (or complex of generators, point stands) can cover a >160km diameter sphere, and that shield generators can be integrated with each other - the DSII and Executor losing her bridge shields but keeping the other shield regions respectively. By simple inference, covering a planet with a network of interlocking shield generators is both possible and, given the utterly massive industrial capability represented by the Death Stars, not particularly taxing. Individual absences of planetary shield networks are easily explained by differing economic priorities, odd cultural hangups, or any number of other reasons beyond technical impossibility; barring any of those, it makes sense for any well-off world to have at least a limited network of shield generators. To protect from starship accidents, if nothing else - I certainly don't want an FTL object smashing into my capital city because the navicomputer conked out unexpectedly.

Alderaan obviously did have a need for a planetary shield, since it was blown up in Episode IV and must have known an attack was at least possible. The only reason they could conceivably have for not wanting one is their alleged pacifism, which is... guess what, not canon anymore. They do indeed have weapons in the movie, as witnessed by Princess Leia's armed guards and starship, both of which we see being used to try and overthrow the government. A traitor trying to save her home planet and family after already lying about the location of the Rebel base once before is not a trustworthy source of information when that information could help accomplish that goal.

EDIT: The thing I was quoting was from two pages ago and is no longer relevant.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Borgholio »

The Empire never invaded Allderaan why would they think that it would?
Alderaan has always been a focal point for resistance against the Empire. Vader himself stated that Alderaan was a hotbed for rebellious sentiment. They wanted to silence it for awhile but they had to wait until the Death Star was complete. Why? If the Empire had a fleet that could lay waste to the planet, why not use it? Well, if Alderaan had a planetary shield that made conventional fleet attacks very difficult, that'd be horrible for propaganda. They'd want a quick victory to demonstrate their strength. Enter the Death Star. One shot, one kill, home in time for dinner.
Delaware isn't afraid that the US government is going to come in and occupy it. Why? Because its part of The United States.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard you say so far...and that's saying something. No, you idiot, they're not afraid because Delaware isn't actively providing troops, money and supplies to a rebel group trying to overthrow the Federal government. If they were doing that, then they damn well would be afraid and with good cause.
got a canon source for most of the anti inmperial senators came from Alderaan? All we know is that one anti Imperial diplomat came from there.
Senator Bail Antilles - Episode 1
Senator Bail Organa - Episodes 2 and 3
Senator Leia Organa - Episode 4

Three senators, all key leaders of the anti-Palpatine / anti-Empire movement. And those are just the ones from Alderaan. Senator Padme Amidala (Episode 2 and 3) and Senator Mon Mothma (Episode 3) were both allied with the representatives from Alderaan.
He wanted to destroy a core world to prove no one was safe and they were willing to destroy an important planet.
Yeah but why Alderaan? There are countless other choices but with Alderaan being a thorn in their side, it made a perfect target. Force Leia to give up the location of the rebel base AND eliminate a chunk of the rebel leadership and support structure all at once.
We never see Allderaan attacked BEFORE it is destroyed you idiot.
Of course we don't, you imbecile. The events of Episode 4 are where things came to a head. You have Alderaan making more and more noise until the Empire decides to silence it. Best way to do that is the Death Star. If they had been attacked by the Imperial government beforehand, that would have changed everything. The shield was their biggest defense against the kind of strong-arm tactics that the Empire preferred to use.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

some really great responses but i just want to know
Alderaan has always been a focal point for resistance against the Empire. Vader himself stated that Alderaan was a hotbed for rebellious sentiment.
where is your Canon source?
That's the dumbest thing I've heard you say so far...and that's saying something. No, you idiot, they're not afraid because Delaware isn't actively providing troops, money and supplies to a rebel group trying to overthrow the Federal government. If they were doing that, then they damn well would be afraid and with good caus
canon source that Alderaan was supplying troops, money and supplies to the rebels?
Senator Bail Antilles - Episode 1
Senator Bail Organa - Episodes 2 and 3
Senator Leia Organa - Episode 4

Three senators, all key leaders of the anti-Palpatine / anti-Empire movement. And those are just the ones from Alderaan. Senator Padme Amidala (Episode 2 and 3) and Senator Mon Mothma (Episode 3) were both allied with the representatives from Alderaan.
Your canon source that Bail Antilles and Bail Organa were part of an anti Palestine movement? I don't remember Bail ANtilles saying anything in Episode 1.
Yeah but why Alderaan? There are countless other choices but with Alderaan being a thorn in their side, it made a perfect target. Force Leia to give up the location of the rebel base AND eliminate a chunk of the rebel leadership and support structure all at once.
Where is your Canon source that the Empire thought Alderaan was a thonr in their side? Canon source that Rebel Leadership was even on Alderaan?

You have Alderaan making more and more noise until the Empire decides to silence it.
Where is your canon source that Alderaan was making more and more noise?


In fact aside from knowing that Princess Leia was helping the rebel alliance what did she actually do that was anti Empire? Her political views are never known in the movies. Yes she is a rebel spy but why would a rebel spy make herself known as being anti empire?


Now i'm sure the fact that you didn't put up any canon sources was just a small oversight on your part and you will fix that as soon as you can. Because with out canon sources everything you said was well just fan fiction.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

bilateralrope wrote: Maybe they don't trust the Empire. I doubt that the Death Star was the first time the Empire used genocide to scare people into staying in line.
Maybe the major cost is the installation, but upkeep is comparatively cheap, so there is no incentive to remove it.
Maybe removing the shield generators is going to be expensive.
Maybe there are some criminal groups around that the shield easily deals with not that the major cost of installing the shield has already been paid.

those are some good ideas
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: No I did not. I have repeatedly quoted exactly what you said and pointed out your error. You have repeatedly tried to weasel out of it by saying, variously, that I missread you, or that it "wasn't what I meant to say" or that I missquoted you which I clearly have not done.

we talked about this. A quote is an exact copy of what someone said. Not an interpenetration. You gave an interpenetration of what you thought i said not a quote.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Batman wrote:I'm sorry, you just claimed every last one of them did.
But if we assume for the time being that was the result of you being too stupid to properly use the English language (which let's face it, it was) how about those planets being seriously affected in ways that could've been prevented by them getting planetary shields motivated them to get, I dunno, planetary shields?
shake my head
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by malguslover »

Esquire wrote:Right, look, it's like this:

You admit that there is a shield on Hoth, right? Not a planetary shield, just a shield on a planet, whatever the difference is supposed to be. From ROTJ we know that a single shield generator on Endor (or complex of generators, point stands) can cover a >160km diameter sphere, and that shield generators can be integrated with each other - the DSII and Executor losing her bridge shields but keeping the other shield regions respectively. By simple inference, covering a planet with a network of interlocking shield generators is both possible and, given the utterly massive industrial capability represented by the Death Stars, not particularly taxing. Individual absences of planetary shield networks are easily explained by differing economic priorities, odd cultural hangups, or any number of other reasons beyond technical impossibility; barring any of those, it makes sense for any well-off world to have at least a limited network of shield generators. To protect from starship accidents, if nothing else - I certainly don't want an FTL object smashing into my capital city because the navicomputer conked out unexpectedly.

Alderaan obviously did have a need for a planetary shield, since it was blown up in Episode IV and must have known an attack was at least possible. The only reason they could conceivably have for not wanting one is their alleged pacifism, which is... guess what, not canon anymore. They do indeed have weapons in the movie, as witnessed by Princess Leia's armed guards and starship, both of which we see being used to try and overthrow the government. A traitor trying to save her home planet and family after already lying about the location of the Rebel base once before is not a trustworthy source of information when that information could help accomplish that goal.

EDIT: The thing I was quoting was from two pages ago and is no longer relevant.
that's a good post but let me ask you this. Why do you know of planetary shields in star wars?

The answer is because of the Thrawn Trilogy. That was the book that introduced the conept and i beleive they mention that Alderaan has one I could be wrong its been a while since i read it. The trilogy also brings in Battle Meditation.

So because of this people went back looking for answers. Now in the origanl special effect for it looks kind of weird and I could get were people think that its a planetary shield. However the speical edition came out and they completely changed the effect.

I'll make a video this weekend so you can see in motion the differences.

So now we have lost the weird special effect and the source that mentions planetary shields.

Funny I don't here anyone saying Battle Mediation is still canon.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Thanas »

As the Novelization is canon, so is battle meditation. Done. Now go be a troll somewhere else.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Omeganian »

Guys, what would do you think of this post?

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... t-14091863
Q: How are children made in the TNG era Federation?

A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Thanas »

It makes no sense at all.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

Post by Borgholio »

where is your Canon source?
Episode 4 official novelization - Vader and Tarkin discussing possible repercussions of having destroyed Alderaan.
canon source that Alderaan was supplying troops, money and supplies to the rebels?
Episode 4 official novelization - same scene.
Your canon source that Bail Antilles and Bail Organa were part of an anti Palestine movement?
Episode 3 - dialogue between Bail Organa and Padme Amidala regarding hundreds of senators banding together to oppose more emergency powers to the Chancellor.
Where is your Canon source that the Empire thought Alderaan was a thonr in their side?
Episode 4 official novelization.
Canon source that Rebel Leadership was even on Alderaan?
Not all of them were. Only Bail Organa was confirmed dead. The rest were elsewhere at the time.
Where is your canon source that Alderaan was making more and more noise?
Episode 4 official novelization.
In fact aside from knowing that Princess Leia was helping the rebel alliance what did she actually do that was anti Empire?
I think that helping to steal the Death Star plans is a pretty significant anti-Empire act.
Her political views are never known in the movies.
She's a leader of the fucking Rebel Alliance...how can you not know her political views?
Yes she is a rebel spy but why would a rebel spy make herself known as being anti empire?
Because she's not a rebel spy. Duh. She used her diplomatic status as a cover so she could run jobs for the Alliance in plain view without getting stopped. That's what Vader was referring to when he said, "You weren't on any mercy mission this time."
Now i'm sure the fact that you didn't put up any canon sources was just a small oversight on your part and you will fix that as soon as you can. Because with out canon sources everything you said was well just fan fiction.
The official novelization of the films is quite canonical. It is not EU, nor is it fan fiction, therefore it is valid. I suggest you read the books to gain an insight behind what you see in the films.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
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