How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

[Batman]

As that particular showing undeniably happened it's not an unfounded assertion. Silver Jedi is quite correct-the mere fact that lower power examples exist does not make the high power examples from the movies go away, and dial-a-yield weapons are positively sufficient to explain why we don't see the high-end firepower more often.

[the atom]

As that particular showing undeniably happened it's not an unfounded assertion. Silver Jedi is quite correct-the mere fact that lower power examples exist does not make the high power examples from the movies go away, and dial-a-yield weapons are positively sufficient to explain why we don't see the high-end firepower more often.

Remember when the bombardment in TDiC happened and then the Trekkers won everything forever? No?

[Batman]

Small problem-the TDiC visuals arecompletely incompatible with the firepower Trekkers claim they represent, at least for DET weapons.
The movie firepower estimates for Wars are derived from the visuals.

[Borgholio]

For those who are interested, Mike Wong already did a very nice analysis of the power of turbolasers:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html

[RogueIce]

...no he didn't.

Well, okay, maybe he has a page about it on his VS website, but what you linked to was done by Brian Young.

[Borgholio]

Ah, my mistake. Still a good analysis though.

[malguslover]

well now we know. It's all gone ICS everything. I guess ST fans got what they wanted a debate only on the movies.

This also means planetary shields are gone. Come to think about it makes me want to completely rethink how the DS destroys a planet.

[darth_timon]

If we accept that the films and only the films are the canon now, then Darkstar et al can no longer refer to the EU novel Death Star to help them in their chain reaction arguments. They will also lose a lot of low firepower examples from the EU. What are the odds they mention this themselves?

[malguslover]

If we accept that the films and only the films are the canon now, then Darkstar et al can no longer refer to the EU novel Death Star to help them in their chain reaction arguments. They will also lose a lot of low firepower examples from the EU. What are the odds they mention this themselves?

well the movie shows a chain reaction at least the special editions do. The bigger thing is we lose all the tech manuals which means that's everything, all about how the weapons work and everything else.


ugggh I just realized Battle Meditation is also gone. I really liked that.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If we accept that the films and only the films are the canon now, then Darkstar et al can no longer refer to the EU novel Death Star to help them in their chain reaction arguments. They will also lose a lot of low firepower examples from the EU. What are the odds they mention this themselves?

well the movie shows a chain reaction at least the special editions do. The bigger thing is we lose all the tech manuals which means that's everything, all about how the weapons work and everything else.


ugggh I just realized Battle Meditation is also gone. I really liked that.

I'm pretty sure the films showed a chain reaction to charge the weapon, not to destroy the target. Even in the special editions it was "fire...boom, one shot," no "chain reaction" that I could see.

[malguslover]

If we accept that the films and only the films are the canon now, then Darkstar et al can no longer refer to the EU novel Death Star to help them in their chain reaction arguments. They will also lose a lot of low firepower examples from the EU. What are the odds they mention this themselves?

well the movie shows a chain reaction at least the special editions do. The bigger thing is we lose all the tech manuals which means that's everything, all about how the weapons work and everything else.


ugggh I just realized Battle Meditation is also gone. I really liked that.

I'm pretty sure the films showed a chain reaction to charge the weapon, not to destroy the target. Even in the special editions it was "fire...boom, one shot," no "chain reaction" that I could see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wag8PF2g3Mc
that looks pretty much like a chain reaction. notice how it keeps exploding after the laser goes away and the explosions continue to get bigger

[Generalissimo]

What's really interesting is how Clone Wars cartoon apparently is now vastly more important for debates.
I dare say most Star Wars canon related to fighting occurs in that program.

[malguslover]

What's really interesting is how Clone Wars cartoon apparently is now vastly more important for debates.
I dare say most Star Wars canon related to fighting occurs in that program.

lol what i find hillarious is that Thrawn isn't canon but Spider legs Maul is...


Well hopefully we will see Thrawn in a movie he is too good of a character to get rid of.

[Eternal_Freedom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wag8PF2g3Mc
that looks pretty much like a chain reaction. notice how it keeps exploding after the laser goes away and the explosions continue to get bigger

The explosions don't seem to get bigger. Besides, the weapon dumps all that energy into a planet that isn't a uniform composition, it's not all going to be released uniformly.

Ironically, a good counter-example is from the same film, General Dodonna states that firing torpedoes intot he exhaust port will "cause a chain reaction that destroys the entire station." When we see that happen, it's one boom.

[malguslover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wag8PF2g3Mc
that looks pretty much like a chain reaction. notice how it keeps exploding after the laser goes away and the explosions continue to get bigger

The explosions don't seem to get bigger. Besides, the weapon dumps all that energy into a planet that isn't a uniform composition, it's not all going to be released uniformly.

Ironically, a good counter-example is from the same film, General Dodonna states that firing torpedoes intot he exhaust port will "cause a chain reaction that destroys the entire station." When we see that happen, it's one boom.

uuuuhhh yeah its is. Its several explosions the larger ones coming after the initial explosion.

Think of putting a m-80 in a pumpkin. It's just one explosion. Now put a bunch of M-80s in and only light 1. The first explosion will cause all the others to ignite.

As for the death star explosion its the exact same effect as the Alderaan explosion.

[Generalissimo]

Well hopefully we will see Thrawn in a movie he is too good of a character to get rid of.

That outcome would be ideal.
Right now, however, our actions do seem limited to prayer and hope.

[malguslover]

Well hopefully we will see Thrawn in a movie he is too good of a character to get rid of.

That outcome would be ideal.
Right now, however, our actions do seem limited to prayer and hope.

after how cool they have made the Marvel Universe I have faith

[Eternal_Freedom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wag8PF2g3Mc
that looks pretty much like a chain reaction. notice how it keeps exploding after the laser goes away and the explosions continue to get bigger

The explosions don't seem to get bigger. Besides, the weapon dumps all that energy into a planet that isn't a uniform composition, it's not all going to be released uniformly.

Ironically, a good counter-example is from the same film, General Dodonna states that firing torpedoes intot he exhaust port will "cause a chain reaction that destroys the entire station." When we see that happen, it's one boom.

uuuuhhh yeah its is. Its several explosions the larger ones coming after the initial explosion.

Think of putting a m-80 in a pumpkin. It's just one explosion. Now put a bunch of M-80s in and only light 1. The first explosion will cause all the others to ignite.

As for the death star explosion its the exact same effect as the Alderaan explosion.

I'll agree to disagree ont he explosions looking bigger, since my eyes aren't very good. As for the Death Star explosion, it is just one boom.

Suffice to say though, that the Death Star is explicitly stated as "having sufficient power to destroy a planet" and no mention is made of a chain reaction, so I see no reason to say that such a reaction was used.

[malguslover]

I'll agree to disagree ont he explosions looking bigger, since my eyes aren't very good. As for the Death Star explosion, it is just one boom.

Suffice to say though, that the Death Star is explicitly stated as "having sufficient power to destroy a planet" and no mention is made of a chain reaction, so I see no reason to say that such a reaction was used.

fair enough but you do agree its more then one explosion

That's the original death star explosion which isn't canon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFgFAcGHQc
here is the Special edition one. Not as many explosions as Alderaan but still several explosions they just happen really fast.

I would say there is no reason to say it creates a chain reaction. It would be kind of clunky dialog

Vader "The power to create a chain reaction inside of a planet causing it to explode is insignificant to the power of the force"

doesn't sound so cool or make it sound like the force is really powerfull which of course is the real purpose of that scene.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'd be hard pressed to say how many explosions are in that special edition one. I still say it looks like one single boom. Of course, the Death Star is far more likely to have larger secondary explosions than a typical Earth-like planet is.

[malguslover]

I'd be hard pressed to say how many explosions are in that special edition one. I still say it looks like one single boom. Of course, the Death Star is far more likely to have larger secondary explosions than a typical Earth-like planet is.

oh i agree its probably impossible to count how many explosions there are but its more then one. If it was just one it would be a uniform explosion and would all fade at the same time. But its multiple explosions happening very fast.

THe more I watch it the more I admire it. While all they were trying to do was get a cool special effect they really managed to capture how a chain reaction destruction would occur.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'd be hard pressed to say how many explosions are in that special edition one. I still say it looks like one single boom. Of course, the Death Star is far more likely to have larger secondary explosions than a typical Earth-like planet is.

oh i agree its probably impossible to count how many explosions there are but its more then one. If it was just one it would be a uniform explosion and would all fade at the same time. But its multiple explosions happening very fast.

THe more I watch it the more I admire it. While all they were trying to do was get a cool special effect they really managed to capture how a chain reaction destruction would occur.

True. Although now that I think about it, "a chain reaction that will destroy the station" doesn't necessarily mean a series of visible explosions, more like the torpedoes wreck something important and the main reactor (or its fuel supply or whatever) goes boom. In that case, the other explosions are probably the various fuel tanks, secondary reactors, power cells (the ICS states that some of the power cells are 15 km across), magazines and so on exploding.

[Soontir C'boath]

The Death Star I was simultaneously about to fire the superlaser on Yavin, so proton torpedoes hitting the reactor likely made it release all the energy it was ready to fire leaving Tarkin and everyone else unaware. Contrast that with the DSII where it did take its sweet time that evacuation procedures seem to have been in effect and for that matter enough time for Luke to get to the hanger.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Death Star I was simultaneously about to fire the superlaser on Yavin, so proton torpedoes hitting the reactor likely made it release all the energy it was ready to fire leaving Tarkin and everyone else unaware. Contrast that with the DSII where it did take its sweet time that evacuation procedures seem to have been in effect and for that matter enough time for Luke to get to the hanger.

Good point.

[Omeganian]

A minor point; the Death Star generating the power to blast Alderaan into debris directly might be debatable. The Death Star's shields shrugging off the impact of said debris isn't.