How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

[Edi]

Because he decided to ignore the warnings given and heed the rules, malguslover has been temporarily banned for two weeks.

If this same incoherent shit continues afterward, we have no problems upgrading the ban to permanent as necessary.

[Crazedwraith]

Are official novelisations still considered canon? From what I was reading in PSW sounds like literally just the films and CGI Clone Wars cartoon count any more.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'd be quite surprised if they weren't canon anymore, since all they really do is add a little more depth to the films, it's not like they make up a whole new story.

[Borgholio]

I'd be quite surprised if they weren't canon anymore, since all they really do is add a little more depth to the films, it's not like they make up a whole new story.

This.

Movie novelizations basically just flesh out stuff that happens between scenes or in the minds of the characters. That's why a book made directly into a movie would be 4 hours easily...way too much detail to fit on film.

Now if it were a re-write of the movie, THEN it would not be canon.

[Crazedwraith]

I'd be quite surprised if they weren't canon anymore, since all they really do is add a little more depth to the films, it's not like they make up a whole new story.

the OT ones sure. The PT ones though? Well, the EP.III one is the one I'm thinking of. It's so steeped in and extensively references EU (especially Shatterpoint for Mace) that it doesn't really scan to keep it if you've ditched the EU.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Good point, I've only read the OT books so I wouldn't know about ROTS.

Incidentally, who wants to bet how long it will take malguslover to charge back in here after his temp ban expires?

[Borgholio]

Incidentally, who wants to bet how long it will take malguslover to charge back in here after his temp ban expires?

Depends. Sometimes being hit with the ban hammer is enough to wake people up. Sometimes they learn nothing.

Truth be told I don't mind debating what is and is not canon...and I certainly don't mind having to back up statements I make with fact (or at least concede it's just my opinion). But, hypocritically, he kept talking about shifting goal posts and then he'd do it himself. He'd make a statement, we'd debunk it with visual / dialogue / mathematical evidence, and rather than accept it, he would modify his argument to say something different and then proceed down that path until the end when what we were arguing about had absolutely nothing to do with his original statement anyways.

Or, he would nitpick individual issues to argue about instead of the big picture which really made the smaller issues moot. I mean arguing whether or not the SW galaxy used meters as their default unit of distance then saying General Veers could have been referring to hectometers? Just concede that they only ever refer to the metric system and that visually, the walkers are at least 10 miles away (probably more) and that the shield has to be at least that big.

Being one who does not have a degree, I am usually hesitant to call out other people on their own credentials. But based on how many basic concepts he got wrong and his inability to accept correction or criticism (a basic requirement of science), I'm beginning to doubt he actually has any serious higher education.

BTW, Cl2 is an element. *ducks*

[Eternal_Freedom]

I feel I should now say that yes I got the 17.28 kilometres statement wrong, I thought there was a mentioned, but I suspect that just got stuck in my head after so long reading EU stuff.

That being said, 17.28, is a distance that, in context, only makes sense as kilometres or possibly miles. We know they use the metric system so km it is. Any other unit than km would be silly, since using hectometres would give the guns an absurdly short range (and they quote range to the nearest metre, which seems unnecessary in that situation) and using megametres would be even dumber.

And yeah, Cl2 being an element still makes me chuckle. I seriously question whether he really did do that BSc he claimed.

[SilverDragonRed]

Would it suprise anyone to learn that malguslover wasn't a Navy Nuke? Whenever I heard the Nukes talking about chain reactions they would always be talking about the nuclear variety (when they didn't, they specify which they were mentioning). So when malguslover comes back from banned, someone needs to ask him where he went for Nuke training, how long it took, and what rank he was when he got to his first command.

I'll be able to tell ya'll if he was lying about that as well.

[Thanas]

With his spelling, lack of logic and lack of making any sense he either has got to be bullshitting or be the dumbest nuke tech in the navy.

[Mange]

Are official novelisations still considered canon? From what I was reading in PSW sounds like literally just the films and CGI Clone Wars cartoon count any more.

According to a tweet by Del Ray yesterday, the six movie novelizations and Traviss's Clone Wars movie novelization are canon. They later clarified that they're canon when they "align with what is seen on screen", Del Ray Twitter

[ray245]

What is the Canon status of the Clone Wars though? Is it on par with the movies? What happens when they contradict each other? The issue is the depiction of firepower in the Clone Wars is rather minimalistic.

[ray245]

Seems like the Clone Wars gave us some concrete figures about the firepower of some Star Wars weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKfprOPUF48

[darth_timon]

I still don't get how malguslover cannot see what's right in front of his nose.

When the Death Star beam hits the planet, the planet does not immediately explode. This is made quite clear by Mike- he broke this argument down for all of us in his debate with Darkstar, many years ago. We can also see it for ourselves. Something stops the beam and spreads the energy out for a fraction of a second before said 'something' (shield) stops working and the energy destroys the planet. There's all the evidence needed for a shield right there.

[Mange]

What is the Canon status of the Clone Wars though? Is it on par with the movies? What happens when they contradict each other? The issue is the depiction of firepower in the Clone Wars is rather minimalistic.

It's on par with the movies as per the announcement on SW.com:

He [George Lucas] set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

StarWars.com (bolding mine)

[Very_big_ship]

I still don't get how malguslover cannot see what's right in front of his nose.

When the Death Star beam hits the planet, the planet does not immediately explode. This is made quite clear by Mike- he broke this argument down for all of us in his debate with Darkstar, many years ago. We can also see it for ourselves. Something stops the beam and spreads the energy out for a fraction of a second before said 'something' (shield) stops working and the energy destroys the planet. There's all the evidence needed for a shield right there.

Where is this discussion so I can read it?

[Borgholio]

Where is this discussion so I can read it?[/quote]

About 10 pages ago. It's easier if you Google still images of the beam impacting the planet. You see a deflector shield for a short time before the planet shatters. The shield glows bright orange for a few frames before the beam penetrates.

[Very_big_ship]

Where is this discussion so I can read it?

About 10 pages ago. It's easier if you Google still images of the beam impacting the planet. You see a deflector shield for a short time before the planet shatters. The shield glows bright orange for a few frames before the beam penetrates.[/quote]
I meant this part:
" This is made quite clear by Mike- he broke this argument down for all of us in his debate with Darkstar, many years ago."

It can't be 10 pages ago in this thread if this thread was started januari in this year .

[Elheru Aran]

The Darkstar debates were a very long time ago. Your best resource would be to check the main site. Click the Star Destroyer logo at the top of the page and poke around.

[Borgholio]

It can't be 10 pages ago in this thread if this thread was started januari in this year .

You know what, you're quite right. It's actually 12 pages ago.

See for yourself.

" This is made quite clear by Mike- he broke this argument down for all of us in his debate with Darkstar, many years ago."

Now this one I don't know about. You can view the calculations page on the main SDN page in the technology section.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If he doesn't cover it on the main site, it may under the hate mail/flame mail sections. Some of his debates are on there, but I can't recall offhand if Darkstar is there too.

EDIT: Ah, yeah here we go: Darkstar in all his idiocy.

[SilverDragonRed]

And if you want some more chuckles at Darkstar's idiocy: http://darthtimon.wix.com/meerkatmusing ... tics/c1z5n

[darth_timon]

And if you want some more chuckles at Darkstar's idiocy: http://darthtimon.wix.com/meerkatmusing ... tics/c1z5n

Not actually Darkstar's. Virus-X's old Obsidian Order thing. Hopefully it makes for a good read though.

[SilverDragonRed]

Not actually Darkstar's. Virus-X's old Obsidian Order thing. Hopefully it makes for a good read though.

Hard to tell idiots apart sometimes; and yes, that was an enjoyable read (especially his very stupid war campaign idea).

[darth_timon]

Not actually Darkstar's. Virus-X's old Obsidian Order thing. Hopefully it makes for a good read though.

Hard to tell idiots apart sometimes; and yes, that was an enjoyable read (especially his very stupid war campaign idea).

There are so many things that make no sense. Why does he think the Federation conquered the Dominion? Where did this 'Federation fleets act as manufacturing plants' idea come from? The main problem, as I think I pointed out, is that his conclusions are drawn from faulty interpretations of both Star Trek and Star Wars, and thus, by the time we get to his war campaign, it falls apart.