Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

[the atom]

After discovering a stable wormhole leading to another galaxy near Romulan space, Starfleet intelligence has ascertained the existence of an immense and hostile empire on the other side. Intelligence is still sketchy, but it is determined that there is a high probability that this 'Galactic Empire' is more then likely to mount an invasion into the milky way and the alpha quadrant if the existence of the wormhole were to be discovered.

The task has now fallen to you, a Section 31 operative to lead a pre-emptive strike into this other galaxy, and find a means to prevent (or failing that, curtail) such a catastrophe from occurring by virtually any means necessary.

Nearly any strategy or tactic is pretty much a go as long as it's based on stuff that's been seen or can be directly inferred without veering into fanfiction (please try to stay away from derpy shit like 'self-replicating cloaked soliton genesis device spam' or something of that nature). The wormhole will appear in Hutt space, with a two year grace period or so before the Empire has a high probability of detecting it unless you manage to do something particularly stupid or brazen. Basically this means that they won't randomly stumble upon it without you somehow leading them to it.

Thanks to the wormhole's strange properties, all previously effective means of dealing with technobabble temporal space time anomalies used by Starfleet in the past have failed, so shutting it down is out of the question.

Good luck!:D

(P.S. In the spirit of the scenario, please try to avoid boring answers like 'we surrender!' or something like that).

[Eternal_Freedom]

Beg, borrow or steal a collection of trilithium warheads fromt he MW side and a hyperdrive-equipped starship on the other side. Use said weapons to destroy the Coruscant, Kuat, Fondor and Corellian systems. That shoudl leave the Empire in a shitload of turmoil for a while.

Alternatively, use aforementioend starships to sneak aboard Centrepoint and use that to destroy the systems I already named (except Corellia of course). This option has the advantage of making the remaining Imperial forces very angry at Corellia, thus hopefully sparking off a nice big civil war to keep them occupied.

Both these plans assume I am allowed to keep my out-of-universe knowledge. If not, spend some time intelligence gathering, simple starmaps and asking what systems have the best/biggest/most famou shipyards should suffice.

I suppose I should ask what year this is for the Empire.

[the atom]

We'll say roughly around ANH era, just before the Death Star was finished.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Then in that case, if I keep my out of universe knowledge, I definitely add the Hormuz system to my list.

[lPeregrine]

You're screwed. The Empire is so huge that even if you can find those forgotten plot-device planet killers the most you can do is make the Empire really angry at you. Remember, this is the Empire that just casually blew away a major planet to make a point, without any apparent hesitation about how irreplaceable Alderaan was. You can kill shipyards, but you can't kill the entire massive fleet that already exists and is distributed across the galaxy with no central base. You can kill lots of people, but there are lots more to replace them. You can kill the center of government, but you can't kill all of the regional/planetary governors and stop them from forming a new government. Etc.

Your best hope is to spend your time negotiating with one or more factions in the Star Wars universe and try to arrange for some degree of protection for the Federation. Maybe you can succeed in convincing enough people that you're fellow humans who should be brought into the Empire and given technological assistance to raise you out of your sad undeveloped state, and focus the Empire's invasion on the Federation's enemies instead.

[Eternal_Freedom]

This is where the problem of out of universe knowledge starts to matter. I, as a SW fan, know how badly the Empire was hurt by the loss of Palpatine and the DS2. With no designated successor you had warlords breaking off everywhere. Now if I can kill Palpatine as well as the central government (and the new secret superweapon) and make it appear that Centrepoint did it (by using it most likely) then whichever Grand Moff or Admiral is in charge of Corellia (Grand Admiral Kaine IIRC) will be the most likely suspect. If additional key systems are then destroyed as well the other Warlords will be far too interested in consolidating their positions and/or taking Centrepoint to be bothered exploring for a wormhole. Of course, the last thing to do is to set Centrepoint to destroy Corellia's primary and then escape, preventing it's use in future. Suddenly the massive fleet and surviving regional governments are occupied by internecine warfare and that wormhole goes on unnoticed.

This is the key: I have two years to wreak havok before the Empire finds the wormhole. If I can sow enough chaos then that two year period becomes ten or twenty and any Empire that emerges will be seriously weakened and the much more palatable (to the Federation at least) New Republic will be a great deal stronger. The Federation can then begin negotiating with them at a later date for support/technology/whatever.

[Stofsk]

How is section 31 leading this enterprise (haha) and not Starfleet? They don't exactly have official backing and it's not entirely clear how many people are involved in section 31. (For all we know, Sloan was like the only dude in it)

In any case, barring any acts of wanton mass murder like Eternal_Freedom suggests (which admittedly, section 31 wouldn't have a problem with - but Starfleet might), I think whoever is in charge on the Trek side is going to have a number of priorities: 1) maintain the secrecy and security of the wormhole's location - both from the GFFA and the milky way, the last thing anyone wants is for the Romulans to get involved :V 2) gather intel, more than likely through long range passive observation or a few discrete contacts here and there, and 3) find someway to collapse the wormhole entrance on either side, or otherwise render it difficult to transit - even if collapsing the entrance is out-and-out impossible, then unconventional means could be employed, like mining the entrace with self-replicating mines, having a trilithium bomber on standby in the system the wormhole is in (assuming it is in a system, if it's in deep interstellar space then ohdear), or maybe even tractoring large physical objects around the entrance like small asteroids or the like, you know outside the box thinking.

[Simonoz]

I think if you got rid of sidious, you would have to get rid of vader as well, and both these tasks would be extremely difficult for a non force user.

Personally, I would attempt to strike a deal with the hutts, the rebels, and any mandalorians I could find. I would either pay them or offer them alliegence in the fight against the empire. The mandalorians and the rebels dislike the empire, and no doubt the hutts wouldn't be too impressed by them either, the empire being the main obstacle in their smuggling runs.
I would then let the events of ANH take place, but help the rebels however i could, along with the mandalorians and the hutts. With the combined power of these factions, no doubt the trench run would be a lot easier. I would also send a squadron of fighters after darth vader, as he is a major threat. From there, we are left with an emperor with no successor, no events of the TESB, and luke completes his training more quickly.
Once the bothans give their lives to retrieve the information of the death star II, i send down my little force, but rather than just rebels, I take mandalorians, bounty hunters, and mandalorian bounty hunters (Boba Fett). This group should have no problem taking down the shield, as they would not give their position away to the scout troopers. From there, the entire battle would go exactly as planned, rather than the seat of the pants stuff in the movie. Sidious gets blown up on his death star, and the new joint governments, (republic, hutt and mandalorian) should agree to a treaty not to attack the federation, or maybe even a mutual defence treaty.
From there, the mandalorians and the hutts will start to take over non federation powers, and the federation will be the biggest milky way power, having access to star wars science and technology. Here could also be a potential new jedi academy in the milky way, to train force sensitives there.

[lPeregrine]

This is where the problem of out of universe knowledge starts to matter. I, as a SW fan, know how badly the Empire was hurt by the loss of Palpatine and the DS2. With no designated successor you had warlords breaking off everywhere.

One small problem here: the Empire's collapse into civil war was because of internal conflicts. The whole rebellion era was really just a conflict between various factions left over from the Republic, with the important people and planets choosing sides for power/idealism/whatever. Once the rebellion's side won the factions just shifted around a bit more and gave opportunities for certain players to make a move, but it's all still the same people/planets involved. So it's really easy to focus on maintaining your position among the important factions in galactic politics while the average citizen goes about their daily lives without really caring too much about whose face is on the money.

That's entirely different from a mass-murdering attack from outside the galaxy. Now instead of an internal power struggle between distant rulers you've got an external threat to unify against. Your attacks might cause the eventual breakup of the Empire, but first they're going to utterly destroy the Federation in revenge.

The mandalorians and the rebels dislike the empire, and no doubt the hutts wouldn't be too impressed by them either, the empire being the main obstacle in their smuggling runs.

What exactly are you going to offer the Hutts? The Federation is going to be morally opposed to creating a lawless galaxy with a thoroughly immoral criminal organization in charge, and the Hutts aren't going to care about destroying the Empire if it just gets replaced by another government that's equally concerned with maintaining law and order.

With the combined power of these factions, no doubt the trench run would be a lot easier. I would also send a squadron of fighters after darth vader, as he is a major threat. From there, we are left with an emperor with no successor, no events of the TESB, and luke completes his training more quickly.

Except merely by arriving and interfering you've changed events and you can no longer guarantee that the precise details of everything will happen the way you like. For example, maybe the mere suspicion of Hutt criminal elements providing assistance to the rebels convinces Tarkin to launch a few more fighter squadrons, and Luke is shot down and killed in the opening seconds of the battle.

Once the bothans give their lives to retrieve the information of the death star II, i send down my little force, but rather than just rebels, I take mandalorians, bounty hunters, and mandalorian bounty hunters (Boba Fett).

Ignoring the issue of how you convince someone like Boba Fett, who is quite happy to work with the Empire in the movies and (according to the EU) hates the rebellion, to help with the attack, don't forget that the only reason they were able to land was that they were a small team aboard a single shuttle. You can't count on the Emperor allowing a more powerful force to make the initial attack without interference, and if the full defense force is out at the start of the battle it's going to be over pretty quickly.

[Simonoz]

Ignoring the issue of how you convince someone like Boba Fett, who is quite happy to work with the Empire in the movies and (according to the EU) hates the rebellion, to help with the attack,

He's a bounty hunter. You pay him. Besides, he isn't critcal to the plan, he would just be a useful asset.

don't forget that the only reason they were able to land was that they were a small team aboard a single shuttle. You can't count on the Emperor allowing a more powerful force to make the initial attack without interference, and if the full defense force is out at the start of the battle it's going to be over pretty quickly.

It could still be a small team. Han and Leia (and the rebels) aren't exactly the best of fighters, and chewbacca lacks an element of stealth. I would use an elite team of the best mandalorians, and throw Luke in there, because he is a jedi. The mandalorians would also start singing vode an if it came to a more open battle.

[jwl]

I don't know a terrible amount about star trek, but they have cloaking devices, right? If they focused all their efforts on making a big enough cloaking device over the two years, they might be able to hide the wormhole from the empire permanently. This depends how big the wormhole is, of course, but if it was too big the hutts would find it in less than 2 years.

[Ted C]

Secrecy is going to be made difficult by the ESP and precognitive powers of Sith lords. They likely wouldn't have details, but it's likely that even if the Federation could find a way to get to Coruscant's system with a trilithium device or some kind of planet killer that Palpatine and/or Vader would perceive a threat and either relocate or tighten defenses around the capital.

Intelligence is going to be a major problem. Passive scans won't reveal nearly enough information to plan and execute a major strike against multiple critical systems, and once they start trying to insert agents to gather local intel, the risk of exposure will rise dramatically. I don't foresee them finding away to "decapitate" the Empire before their existence is exposed.

Far better to look for ways to close the wormhole or block it until a way to close it can be found.

[StarSword]

@jwl: Except the Federation is banned by treaty from using cloaking devices. IIRC the only reason the original Defiant got one is because the Romulans made an exception for that specific ship.

EDIT: Though now that I think about it, this is Section 31 we're talking about so they're probably not thinking about treaties. Though there's still the question of where they would get one, since the Klingons and Romulans don't exactly like to share them.

[the atom]

That's entirely different from a mass-murdering attack from outside the galaxy. Now instead of an internal power struggle between distant rulers you've got an external threat to unify against. Your attacks might cause the eventual breakup of the Empire, but first they're going to utterly destroy the Federation in revenge.

If you're going around telling people 'we are from the Federation in the milky way galaxy! Arrr!' then odds are you're doing it wrong. Tell people you're from the other side of the galaxy and they'll have no real reason not to believe you.

[Batman]

Other than the fact that your technology is about 20,000 years out of date of course.
And what, exactly, is my job here? Am I required to do this with the resources Section 31 can get its hands on without anybody having to admit to noticing, which isn't much really but should include them getting their hands on a cloaking device or three (which may or may not work against Wars sensors). If this is Section 31 sanctioned (officially or otherwise) by the Federation the options open up. As per the Dominion war, the Feds aren't above cooperating with the Romulans, and those in turn aren't stupid (at least not consistently so) and would probably agree to amend the Treaty of Algernon or at least temporarily suspend the 'no cloaking' clause for this conflict, especially as its bound to start in their territory thanks to the OP.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That's entirely different from a mass-murdering attack from outside the galaxy. Now instead of an internal power struggle between distant rulers you've got an external threat to unify against. Your attacks might cause the eventual breakup of the Empire, but first they're going to utterly destroy the Federation in revenge.

This is exactly why using Centrepoint is my main plan. That way it is not immediately obvious I am from the Federation or that a Federation even exists. By uing Centrepoint I can also make it seem that the Corellian Grand Moff/Admiral was responsible and is attempting a coup. At no point do I take any action that reveals the presence of the Feds. Indeed, if Corsuscant, Kuat and others were destroyed, by a weapon that is known to be that powerful, would you assume that an extra-galactic power is responsible?

Hell, even if I have to use the trilithium weapons it will still at least resemble Centerpoint. Or the Sun Crusher's weapons.

As for lacking information, this is why I specified "If I can keep my out of universe knowledge." I know what system the major facilities are located in, and I can look them up in the navicomp of the ship I acquire. I am aware it is a mass-murdering tactic that will result in a horrific civil war, but the mandate is for me, as a Section 31 guy to launch a pre-emptive attack on the Empire. This plan, if all goes well, completely removes the threat of invasion and at worse severely weakens the Empire.

Clearly if I am not allowed to keep my out of universe knowledge some other method is rrequired. Closing the wormhole is impossible as per the OP so some way to conceal it is likely the best bet.

[lPeregrine]

He's a bounty hunter. You pay him. Besides, he isn't critcal to the plan, he would just be a useful asset.

So why mention him at all? It just sounds like mindless Boba Fett fanboyism, especially since you're talking about a character who hates the rebellion and is far more likely to hand you over to the Empire and collect a nice reward.

It could still be a small team. Han and Leia (and the rebels) aren't exactly the best of fighters, and chewbacca lacks an element of stealth. I would use an elite team of the best mandalorians, and throw Luke in there, because he is a jedi. The mandalorians would also start singing vode an if it came to a more open battle.

Did you watch the same movie as the rest of us? The Emperor let them land because it was all part of his trap, if you take away Luke and friends you just broke the trap, and the Emperor has no more motivation to leave the bunker "unguarded". Meanwhile they only won the battle because of Han's improvisation, take him away and your elite commando team stands around yelling in frustration at the bunker doors. It might be fun to have fanboy dreams about how awesome Mandalorians are, but they aren't going to be much help, especially if the shuttle is shot down as soon as it asks for landing permission with the old code.

If you're going around telling people 'we are from the Federation in the milky way galaxy! Arrr!' then odds are you're doing it wrong. Tell people you're from the other side of the galaxy and they'll have no real reason not to believe you.

Or you got captured and tortured until you admitted the truth. Or people just figure out that you're not part of any known organization, therefore you must be some kind of external threat, whether it's from a remote undiscovered region of the galaxy, or from another universe entirely.

That way it is not immediately obvious I am from the Federation or that a Federation even exists.

That's assuming you can get there without getting caught, get onto the station without getting caught, figure out how to use it, get off the station without getting caught (especially since it will be surrounded and probably boarded and recaptured the moment it starts doing anything other than just sitting there), etc. If you get caught at any point you get tortured until you admit where you're from and you just ended the Federation.

By uing Centrepoint I can also make it seem that the Corellian Grand Moff/Admiral was responsible and is attempting a coup.

And then they say "I had nothing to do with this" and lead the assault to seize the station and bring it back under Imperial control, at which point you're captured and interrogated.

Indeed, if Corsuscant, Kuat and others were destroyed, by a weapon that is known to be that powerful, would you assume that an extra-galactic power is responsible?

Not until I finish capturing and interrogating the people responsible. Before that point I'd assume that a rogue terrorist group was involved, retake the station, and subject any prisoners to all the nice unethical interrogation methods the Empire is willing to use. And even if everyone was killed in the boarding assault I'd still assume that I've just stopped a major terrorist threat, and use the attack as a justification for imposing an even harsher crackdown on anyone defying Imperial authority.

[Simonoz]

He's a bounty hunter. You pay him. Besides, he isn't critcal to the plan, he would just be a useful asset.


So why mention him at all? It just sounds like mindless Boba Fett fanboyism, especially since you're talking about a character who hates the rebellion and is far more likely to hand you over to the Empire and collect a nice reward.

I mentioned him because he is mandalorian. Meh, i guess it doesnt really make a difference.

Quote:
It could still be a small team. Han and Leia (and the rebels) aren't exactly the best of fighters, and chewbacca lacks an element of stealth. I would use an elite team of the best mandalorians, and throw Luke in there, because he is a jedi. The mandalorians would also start singing vode an if it came to a more open battle.


Did you watch the same movie as the rest of us? The Emperor let them land because it was all part of his trap, if you take away Luke and friends you just broke the trap, and the Emperor has no more motivation to leave the bunker "unguarded". Meanwhile they only won the battle because of Han's improvisation, take him away and your elite commando team stands around yelling in frustration at the bunker doors. It might be fun to have fanboy dreams about how awesome Mandalorians are, but they aren't going to be much help, especially if the shuttle is shot down as soon as it asks for landing permission with the old code.

I did say that Luke would still be in there, so the emperor would let them through. And the empire would never be alerted by Chewbacca, so the ground forces would have no idea where they were. Besides, where does it say that the mandalorian team wouldn't be able to get into the bunker. For all we know, there might be someone with them with the same amount of ingenuity as Han Solo.

Although perhaps it is just mandalorian fanboyism

[jwl]

By uing Centrepoint I can also make it seem that the Corellian Grand Moff/Admiral was responsible and is attempting a coup.

And then they say "I had nothing to do with this" and lead the assault to seize the station and bring it back under Imperial control, at which point you're captured and interrogated.

Indeed, if Corsuscant, Kuat and others were destroyed, by a weapon that is known to be that powerful, would you assume that an extra-galactic power is responsible?

Not until I finish capturing and interrogating the people responsible. Before that point I'd assume that a rogue terrorist group was involved, retake the station, and subject any prisoners to all the nice unethical interrogation methods the Empire is willing to use. And even if everyone was killed in the boarding assault I'd still assume that I've just stopped a major terrorist threat, and use the attack as a justification for imposing an even harsher crackdown on anyone defying Imperial authority.

I don't thinks he's thinking of capturing and holding centrepoint. It sounds more to me like go there, blow stuff up, leave.

[Stofsk]

Secrecy is going to be made difficult by the ESP and precognitive powers of Sith lords. They likely wouldn't have details, but it's likely that even if the Federation could find a way to get to Coruscant's system with a trilithium device or some kind of planet killer that Palpatine and/or Vader would perceive a threat and either relocate or tighten defenses around the capital.

I don't think secrecy is going to be made difficult by precog, given how that a) didn't help Vader locate the Rebel base in Star Wars and b) didn't help Palpatine see his trusted right-hand man betray him at the end of Jedi. The further into the future the event, the more unpredictable it is - Yoda said as much in Empire. And none of the Jedi foresaw what ended up happening in Sith.

Secrecy might be more of a problem if the end point of the wormhole is in a well-trafficked area or gives off emissions that can be detected by SW sensors, and that's more of a problem than shaky clairvoyance that sometimes-does sometimes-doesn't work.

Intelligence is going to be a major problem. Passive scans won't reveal nearly enough information to plan and execute a major strike against multiple critical systems, and once they start trying to insert agents to gather local intel, the risk of exposure will rise dramatically. I don't foresee them finding away to "decapitate" the Empire before their existence is exposed.

I'm not so sure. Star Trek has telepaths, cloaking devices, holograms that can disguise bases or fool someone on a viewscreen - there's a lot of tricks someone can pull off to gather intelligence, especially if he's doing so carefully and quietly.

Far better to look for ways to close the wormhole or block it until a way to close it can be found.

I agree with you here.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Bingo, go there, blow shit and leave. Rig the station to blow if possible, or target Corellia's sun if needed. If I have to die in the blast, so be it, I've brought chaos to the Empire and achieved the objectives.

[lPeregrine]

Bingo, go there, blow shit and leave. Rig the station to blow if possible, or target Corellia's sun if needed. If I have to die in the blast, so be it, I've brought chaos to the Empire and achieved the objectives.

That's not exactly going to be an instant process. And as soon as the local bizarre alien artifact starts doing anything other than sitting there doing nothing there's going to be a boarding assault on its way to figure out what's going on. Assuming it doesn't already have a security force aboard, sensors on the entrances to alert a security force to any intrusion, etc, and have stormtroopers bringing you into the interrogation room before you've even figured out which way to go to get to the "kill planet" button.

Also, don't forget that at this time nobody knows how to use the station's weapon (or that it even has one), so good luck figuring it out before you're caught. It's certainly not going to be as simple as "dock at the station, blow up every key planet in Star Wars, back home to Earth in time for dinner".

[Eternal_Freedom]

Again, I'm using out of universe knowledge, and also I never plan to return. I'm fully aware that this would likely get me killed. Although the objections you raise are good ones, so I will fall back on the trilithium weapons instead methinks.

[Simonoz]

Perhaps if we were to send out some spies to try and glean some information about the local technology. Since the wormhole leads to hutt space, people would be used to strangers and tend to know not to ask questions to people with guns. If there was no way to close the wormhole, and the people were being hostile towards us, then we should just sit tight and wait the rebellion out. No doubt the new republic would be a more firendly government to negotiate with. We could even offer help in fighting the imperial remnant.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What could the Federation possibly offer the New Republic in terms of military aid?