Batman wrote:2 GT is like one percent of the output of a single Acclamator MTL and I don't recall Data ever saying that, unless you're referring to the 'XYZ gigawatts per second' comment that not only makes no sense but was also never completed. A 400GW particle beam managed to drop the Big E's shields in 'The Survivors'. Assuming the bolt interaction with the shield lasts a whole second, the wattage of a measly 6 MT LTL is 2.508E16W.
Yes. I think a fourteen orders of magnitude differential between an ISD's small guns and the E-D's shield capacity means they're essentially screwed.
You might have noticed we're not talking about Acclamators or ISDs.
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..."
We're talking about a ship that can be seriously damaged by type X phasers pre-adaption meaning it's likely not[]/i] a billion times more resilient than a Galaxy class.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Regarding the Survivors comment, that simply means that 400 GW of "particle energy" (which I interpret as referring to KE) is enough to knock out the shields. It doesn't necessarily imply that a 400 GW laser (or phaser, or LTL) will do the same damage.
Batman wrote:We're talking about a ship that can be seriously damaged by type X phasers pre-adaption meaning it's likely not[]/i] a billion times more resilient than a Galaxy class.
I'm not sure why it has to be.
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..."
It doesn't, I seem to have gotten a little sidetracked here. It does have to be considerably more resilient than it was shown to be in on screen though if it wants to live against the LTL armed Falcon.
@Boeing 757-how in hell did you get 85,000gs out of 'Relics'? 250,000km in 5 minutes (assuming that was actual travel time and not airtime) for a halfway turnover course course gets me a whopping 1631gs using s=1/2at^2. Were they stated to be coasting for most of the time or what? It's been a while since I saw that episode.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
To answer one question, the Falcon stays and fights because it's hyperdrive is broken, duh
A: We see the distance that tractor beams in Star Wars work (See: ANH), so there is no way in hell the Falcon gets close to a cube.
B: The Borg cube moves in straight lines very slow. (See: ST:TNG) The Falcon could out maneuver the shit out of it.
C: If the Falcon were crewed to fight, it would be a fairly simple and swift ass kicking. (See: ROTJ)
Why you guys get all caught up in bajilliontonnes all the time is beyond me, especially when the evidence is all right in front of you.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it. Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Batman wrote:2 GT is like one percent of the output of a single Acclamator MTL and I don't recall Data ever saying that, unless you're referring to the 'XYZ gigawatts per second' comment that not only makes no sense but was also never completed. A 400GW particle beam managed to drop the Big E's shields in 'The Survivors'. Assuming the bolt interaction with the shield lasts a whole second, the wattage of a measly 6 MT LTL is 2.508E16W.
Yes. I think a fourteen orders of magnitude differential between an ISD's small guns and the E-D's shield capacity means they're essentially screwed.
You might have noticed we're not talking about Acclamators or ISDs.
You might also notice his cock-up. 40GW is 4E10W, so the difference is six orders of magnitude not fourteen.
Besides, we see double-digit megatonne photorps doing fairly limited damage to the Borg cubes, so I doubt that a 6 megatonne turbolaser bolt is going to be massively more effective. I'm confident the Falcon would win, if only because it can probablyoutrun the Cube long enough to fix it's hyperdrive and leave, but I doubt it will be quite the curbstomp people expect.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Best guess is I dropped the giga when doing the calculations because the difference isn't big enough for me to have accidentally used the Acclamator MTL numbers so yeah, off by a few orders of magnitude. My bad.
Not that photon torpedoes were ever shown to be double digit MT of course but as omnidirectional explosives they waste at least half their yield on empty space unless they manage to penetrate into the enemy ship's hull before exploding. And prior to First Contact, I do seem to remember that all damage done to Borg cubes was done with phasers, photon torpedoes were only used after adaption and did exactly nothing. Mind you, it's entirely possible I'm remembering it wrong so feel free to correct me. Given that unlike photon torpedoes turbolasers always deliver all of their yield to the target, yes, I'd suspect they'd be a lot more effective, especially if the Borg turn out to be unable to adapt to them period.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Batman wrote:Not that photon torpedoes were ever shown to be double digit MT of course but as omnidirectional explosives they waste at least half their yield on empty space unless they manage to penetrate into the enemy ship's hull before exploding. And prior to First Contact, I do seem to remember that all damage done to Borg cubes was done with phasers, photon torpedoes were only used after adaption and did exactly nothing. Mind you, it's entirely possible I'm remembering it wrong so feel free to correct me. Given that unlike photon torpedoes turbolasers always deliver all of their yield to the target, yes, I'd suspect they'd be a lot more effective, especially if the Borg turn out to be unable to adapt to them period.
True. Still, Borg vessels are seen being barely effective by MT-range weapons. Even if we ignore the TM yield (64 MT IIRC) and give them a nominal 10 MT yield, even wasting half their energy they are comparable to the LTL energies. As I said, I've no doubt the Falcon would win, I think the Borg cube wouldn't be as easily killed with LTL's alone as some might think. Assuming of course we have the Falcon equipped with LTL's and not the quads.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
A 10MT yield never shown in the series, and even that has half of it wasted on empty space and the other half spread all across the Cube's facing surface unless you can show the PT digs into the Cube before exploding whereas all 6MT of the LTL hit the same few dozen square metres (or whatever the diameter of an LTL bolt results in).
And since the LTLs popped up to begin with I was rather under the impression that we're talking about the LTL equipped Falcon.
My opinion of what the Falcon equipped with merely the quads can do is there for everyone to see in this thread. She can get away with impunity even without hyperdrive as likely as not but killing the Cube is if feasible to begin with (which is dubious) not worth the hassle.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
I never disputed that, I just don't think it will be quite so easy for the Falcon to total the cube as easily as some might think. It'll win, certainly,but it will just take a bit longer.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
The Vortex Empire: I think the real question is obviously how a supervolcano eruption wiping out vast swathes of the country would affect the 2016 election. Borgholio: The GOP would blame Obama and use the subsequent nuclear winter to debunk global warming.
That's basically what I said. The Falcon could defeat the Cube, but it doesn't pack as much high firepower as some of the more powerful capships, so it's not like it'd be a one-hit wonder. Besides, a Borg Cube is so big it would take several strafing runs even with high firepower.
By the way, I'm pleased to see the response my inquiry has gotten, lol.
Of course the Falcon doesn't pack the firepower of a capship. She's like 30 metres long? Even going by the stupid EU definition of capship, the smallest of those should be the Nebulon-B, which at a rough eyeball guesstimate has several dozen times the volume of the Falcon? Nevermind a real capital ship like an ISD or Mon Cal cruiser.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Of course this is all moot because the Falcon DID fight against a Borg cube in Star Trek: First Contact. And in that appearance, its firepower alone wasn't enough to stop the Borg cube. So you're asking a question that's already been decided in canon.
Instant Sunrise wrote:Of course this is all moot because the Falcon DID fight against a Borg cube in Star Trek: First Contact. And in that appearance, its firepower alone wasn't enough to stop the Borg cube. So you're asking a question that's already been decided in canon.
You're assuming that she hadn't just turned up when she made her appearance, and that her CMs weren't the only weapons in Picard's concentrated fire order that did any damage.
Actually we don't even see her fire so much as a single shot (quads, LTLs, CMs or otherwise) so FC doesn't tell us beans about the Falcon's firepower;P
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
We're talking about the Falcon. Even odds the hyperdrive crapped out on them in transit to someplace else.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
The Vortex Empire: I think the real question is obviously how a supervolcano eruption wiping out vast swathes of the country would affect the 2016 election. Borgholio: The GOP would blame Obama and use the subsequent nuclear winter to debunk global warming.
Given the ship is on-screen for what, less than half a second, chances are they decided they didn't like it there and just hauled ass out of there?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
The Falcon would wield the power required to charge a six megaton turbolaser, so if it had capital grade heavy point-defense, then perhaps it could wield that magnitude or more firepower. The quads are more probably more like gigajoule range vehicular equivocalness, because we see several bolts stopped by tie shields in the movies - in white flashes a short distance from the hull, perhaps deflected. The weapon is also vastly smaller than a fighters laser cannon.
A ship equipped with the falcons maneuverability, speed, and a capital ships point defense 6MT turbolaser, could probably deal crippling surface damage to the cube, taking away propulsion weapons and tractor beams while evading or taking firepower in return. In the film it is struck by at least one could be multi-megaton energy bolt. If it has some 250MTish missiles, it could again to serious damage to the cubes outer layers. A on target torpedo burst in return from the cube might take her out though. In contrast beyond the surface, i doubt the cube will really suffer from such firepower. With the quad, the Falcon could shoot at it all day long. So i'm going with between slight and overwhelming edge to the cube, depending on the Falcons weapons. The falcon has the acceleration needed to easily escape though.
The Falcon has the power generation by default thanks to her linear acceleration. And since when are her quads smaller than a TIE's laser cannon?
Armed with 6MT LTLs and especially Wars level missiles, the Falcon would eat the cube for breakfast. But feel free to show how 250MT missiles would only damage the surface layers when maybe-MT photorps and phasers killed the Cube in First Contact, and prior to adaption phasers of no more firepower blew the smithereens out of a Cube in 'Q Who'.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
What I want to know is why the cube had several chunks blown out of it by phasers, yet when the Enterprise fires photon torpedoes at it they do no damage whatsoever, both instances happened after the Borg had beamed a drone onboard engineering to presumably analyse the ship's capabilities. As far as I'm aware, torpedoes don't have a frequency either.
What I want to know re: First Contact is, was Picard's order to concentrate fire on one section a genuine weak spot, or was it case of simply concentrating all fire on any one section and him picking one at random?
