Destructionator XIII wrote:CrateriaA wrote:1. A simple tractor beam totally messes up the targeting of the ED. Pathetic.
holy christ that episode is the best hour of television EVER MADE
They didn't even miss here. That was direct hit after direct hit after direct hit right on the same pinpoint location.
BTW hull rupture in main engineering but the ship is still fighting.
And BTW #2, Picard's "warp 9" there is my favorite thing I have ever seen. I'd rather watch that on repeat for 30 seconds than have sex.
I definitely remember the big misses though breaking a tractor beam. Must be from Q Who?
Yes... here we go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAlUTxk ... re=related
They did hit it, and shots #1 and #2 were in pretty much the same location. Perhaps Worf thought the beam was coming from somewhere else; perhaps the computer miscalculated due to the alien construction of the Borg cube (it might have been going for the generator rather than the emitter), or maybe it's just not as obvious in universe as it appears to be to us the viewer.
Regardless, they did indeed take it down in four shots, and once Picard gave the order to go nuts, it was a matter of seconds.
Yes, yes, the links your put have shown that Trek beam weapons can accurately hit stationary targets, from stationary position. CMIIW, but the point is whether Trek beam weapons can target SW fighters or not. And here we have evidence that Trek beam weapons have missed targets much bigger and slower than SW fighters.
Destructionator XIII wrote:A Star Trek nebula, that is. Star Wars has their communications broken up by simple rocks floating around.
A "Star Trek nebula" is still made up of gas, asteroids are solid objects. And the Star Destoyers in TESB were still able to communicate with each other in the asteroid field. Vader ordered to move out off the asteroid field because he wanted clear transmission, not because the ships were unable to communicate.
TESB script wrote:the admiral is scared, his face white as a sheet.
PIETT: The Emperor commands you make contact with him.
VADER: Move the ship out of the asteroid field so that we can send a clear transmission.
Destructionator XIII wrote:Not true. The seismic charge in Attack of the Clones was witnessed to have kiloton effects at best. It didn't even vaporize anything!
It doesn't matter whether the seismic charge vaporized the asteroids or merely destroyed them. In "Pegasus", Riker said it would take the entire photon torpedo payload to destroy a single 5km wide hollow asteroid.
Destructionator XIII wrote:Not true. The turbolasers witnessed in The Empire Strikes Back were witnessed to have kiloton or maybe megaton effects, at best; on par with a single Federation weapon, not the full payload.
You do realize that the turbolasers witnessed in TESB are light turbolasers, don't you?
Destructionator XIII wrote:The port was two meters wide (and considered impossible to hit by Star Wars targetting computers).
A photon torpedo is less than one meter wide.
Gimme a break, this is getting ridiculous. An airbus is smaller than an airbus' hangar, but show me the last time an airbus made a high-g, 90 degree turn to enter the hangar. Likewise, show me the last time a Trek torpedo accomplished such feat.
Destructionator XIII wrote:The shields went down immediately after the fighters destroyed the globe thing.
Then a fighter took out the bridge, which led directly to the ship speeding out of control. That's a kill.
No, the Executor bridge crew noticed the bridge shields were down immediately after the fighters destroyed the globe thing.
Destructionator XIII wrote:omg watch The Phantom Menace, it's an awesome movie with a flawlessly constructed plot and brilliant action scenes.
One of those action scenes is a little kid flying a fighter into a battleship (when he said the podracing line), virtually unopposed, and firing ~megajoule weapons at something right off the hanger bay.
The whole ship then went up in a series of explosions, destroying itself completely and shutting down their entire army.
Because Anakin firing megajoule weapons inside the hangar, which is unshielded. Try again.
Destructionator XIII wrote:Half of the big bad ships seen in the Star Wars movies, at least, are destroyed by little fighters scoring just a couple small hits.
Exaggeration to the point of bullshit. Show me the evidence where those "couple of small hits" had ever overwhelmed SW capship's hull, let alone its shield. And no, computer games don't count.
Destructionator XIII wrote:Saxton is an idiot Warsie who has a... shall we say, unique, interpretration of clear on screen evidence. Nevertheless, his numbers tend to be high, so they are useful for these things since if we are generous with his assumptions and conservative with ours, and still win, it's pretty clearly not a curbstomp.
He pegged the shields have had failed from a 1/10 megaton asteroid impact. Mike Wong, who has a... shall we say... unique interpretation of clear on screen events in Star Trek, estimates photon torpedoes to be 1/10 megaton weapons here: http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Databas ... mit=Submit
The energy can do the damage.
Now, Saxton wasn't happy with his own conclusion, so he tried to cover it up by saying the shields were battered all day, but that doesn't make much sense and isn't even confirmed that they were. Do SW shields never regenerate? Do we know SW shields actually fail progressively? Why would a shield fail progressively anyway?
Black and white fallacy. You are completely ignoring the possibility that the rate of asteroid impact is higher than the rate of SW shield's regeneration --which makes sense, considering how dense and violent TESB asteroid field was.
Destructionator XIII wrote:But, the fact is a physical impact with the same energy as a low end estimate for ST weapons took that star destroyer out.
Even if the damage wasn't caused by energy, but some other property (wait is a megaton a megaton a megaton????????), what matters is it happened. Worst case scenario? Toss rocks at the Imperial ships. They have a proven track record.
Now, on power, the E2ICS, AKA the Holy Bible to Warsies, puts a Republic ship's "peak shielding" at 1e23 W. That sounds like a massively big number.
But, real life nukes have done that. The first hydrogen bomb test America did, Ivy Mike, put out about a ten megatons of energy (~1e16 J)... but the nuclear reaction happened in a fraction of a second, thereabouts ten nanonseconds.
Power is energy / time. 1e16 J / 10 ns = 1e24 W.
Did you intentionally, conveniently ignored the asteroid that exploded harmlessly against the Avenger's hangar bay?
Destructionator XIII wrote:It's probable that photon torpedoes have similar power outputs. Just like with a nuclear bomb, if the reaction isn't incredibly fast, it won't work very well.
So, the photon torpedo can overwhelm Saxton's numbers on both energy and power. Even if one isn't enough - if we go with Mike Wong's energy estimate, and/or if newer ships are vastly superior to Republic ships (though it was a new ship that died in ESB..), we're in the right ballpark here. Numerical superiority and/or torpedo spreads ought to be able to put it over the top.
And yet, TNG Episode "Pegasus" had shown what the E-D photon torps payload are incapable of --destroying hollow asteroid, that is.
Destructionator XIII wrote:The Empire's advantages are best stated from the strategic angle - speed, production, numbers - not the tactical one.
Concession duly noted, and accepted.
[/quote]Destructionator XIII wrote:Though they have a big problem there too.... if they are invading, how will they keep their fuel lines going?
Logistics are the most ubiquitous military problem since Hannibal era, what makes you think the Empire cannot handle it?