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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)

31st Century UFP vs. Galactic Empire (A New Hope Era)

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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:17pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
Most of the debates on this site have dealt with earlier versions of the UFP, but how the the 31st Century UFP, at its peak, fare against the Empire?
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Ryag Han
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:21pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2009-12-27 05:47pm
Posts: 138
ThePerson5 wrote:
Most of the debates on this site have dealt with earlier versions of the UFP, but how the the 31st Century UFP, at its peak, fare against the Empire?


i for one don't know much about that era except that they have time travel. what do we know about their weapons, defenses and other technologies?

EDIT: i searched Memory Alpha and found almost nothing.

Last edited by Ryag Han on 2011-07-22 03:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eternal_Freedom
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:21pm 

Castellan


Joined: 2010-03-09 03:16pm
Posts: 5782
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Are they allowed time travel?

If they aren't, the 31st century UFP is screwed. They seem utterly reliant on temporal technology from what little we have seen.
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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:23pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
I guess same rules apply as in matches with Daleks etc.

No offensive Time Travel, to wipe out the GE in their infancy, but temporal weaponry etc. is permitted.
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Ryag Han
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:26pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2009-12-27 05:47pm
Posts: 138
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Are they allowed time travel?

If they aren't, the 31st century UFP is screwed. They seem utterly reliant on temporal technology from what little we have seen.


temporal technology is pretty much all that is know about the 31 century. and its nothing new, they did time travel many times before.
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:26pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
What do we actually know about them in terms of weaponry, shielding, ftl capabilities and infrastructure? Give me quotes and/or evidence.
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Eternal_Freedom
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:28pm 

Castellan


Joined: 2010-03-09 03:16pm
Posts: 5782
Location: Bound in a nutshell
And what exactly is "Temporal weaponry"? Do we mean shit like the Krenim ship that forces you out of history? If they have that stuff they have a chance. If not, it'll be a very slightly less one sided war against the Empire as per usual. Unless they pull out allt he stops technobabble-wise, like they did in TheDoctor's Time War fanfic.
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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:43pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
...like they did in TheDoctor's Time War fanfic.

Heh, link? :mrgreen:
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:51pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
ThePerson5 wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
...like they did in TheDoctor's Time War fanfic.

Heh, link? :mrgreen:


So... do you maybe want to start some discussion, give some evidence, or say something to do with the topic you started? Or are you going to be a tit?
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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:53pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
I know nothing of the 31st century UFP, which is precisely why I made the thread; so I could find out more.

It seems you are the only person being a 'tit.'
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 03:59pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
ThePerson5 wrote:
I know nothing of the 31st century UFP, which is precisely why I made the thread; so I could find out more.

So you started a thread while knowing nothing about one of the parties involved... wanker...

Okay, well, while they have time travel, we have seen nothing that implies their weaponry or shielding is stronger than 24th century UFP forces. We can therefore use those numbers as a lower limit. From that I would say the GE walks all over them still. :mrgreen:
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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:01pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
barnest2 wrote:
So you started a thread while knowing nothing about one of the parties involved... wanker...

How is that being a wanker? I'd assume it would be the exact opposite, as I don't know about one of the sides and therefore can't be completely biased for or against it...
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:03pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
ThePerson5 wrote:
How is that being a wanker? I'd assume it would be the exact opposite, as I don't know about one of the sides and therefore can't be completely biased for or against it...

I mean wanker purely in the sense of an insult, as in 'you are an arsehole', rather than saying you're wanking any particular thing.
In future I'll remember to just call you baser insults, like twat or dickhead.
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ThePerson5
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:05pm 

Youngling


Joined: 2011-06-18 11:33am
Posts: 79
barnest2 wrote:
I mean wanker purely in the sense of an insult, as in 'you are an arsehole', rather than saying you're wanking any particular thing.
In future I'll remember to just call you baser insults, like twat or dickhead.

How am I being an 'arsehole' simply by creating a thread? Or should I remember to insult you whenever you create a new thread from now on? :|
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Metahive
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:09pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2010-09-02 09:08am
Posts: 2426
Location: Little Korea in Big Germany
As long as temporal agents know where a certain person is at a certain time they can try and warp that person to some other moment in time and space as can be seen when Daniels does it to Archer countless times. So if they should get these informations about Palpatine they hypothetically could try and pick him up to fling him into unknown space which would cripple the Empire. That's all I can think of. We never get to see much of the 31st century and its warring capabilities so there's not that much point to discussing this scenario.
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:11pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
ThePerson5 wrote:
How am I being an 'arsehole' simply by creating a thread? Or should I remember to insult you whenever you create a new thread from now on? :|

Go for it :) I like to see creativity, rather than see some twat (see, I'm using simpler ones) make a thread that involves a vs. situation, where he has no idea what one side can do, and has shown little idea that he understands what the other side is really capable of.
If you want to know more about a side in a sci-fi environment, put up a thread saying something along the lines of "what can the the 31st century UFP do?" rather than making this piece of shit thread. I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that when you're making a vs. thread, make sure you know something about what each participant can do. Otherwise you get what we see here, with you making one line posts, and people asking for evidence which you cannot give. You're essentially relying on people coming to the rescue of the side you apparently prefer (or is it just that a victorious GE gives you a limp dick), which is a bit of a dick move. Go away, find some info, or just ask somewhere. This is fucking stupid.

metahive wrote:
So if they should get these informations about Palpatine they hypothetically could try and pick him up to fling him into unknown space which would cripple the Empire

That would be pretty cool. But if the GE were actually faced with an external threat, do you think they would still splinter as badly as they did?

metahive wrote:
We never get to see much of the 31st century and its warring capabilities so there's not that much point to discussing this scenario.

Nail. Head. Hit.
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lord Martiya
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:27pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2007-08-29 11:52am
Posts: 1119
Well, we SAW something of their weapons: they apparently have handguns powerful enough to disintegrate cars easier than a normal Type II phaser can disintegrate a person.
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:28pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
lord Martiya wrote:
Well, we SAW something of their weapons: they apparently have handguns powerful enough to disintegrate cars easier than a normal Type II phaser can disintegrate a person.

Where was that? :?
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Captain Seafort
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:30pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Posts: 1163
Location: Blighty
barnest2 wrote:
Where was that? :?


Future's End
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Metahive
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:32pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2010-09-02 09:08am
Posts: 2426
Location: Little Korea in Big Germany
barnest2 wrote:
That would be pretty cool. But if the GE were actually faced with an external threat, do you think they would still splinter as badly as they did?

Depends on with how much knowledge about the capabilities of the temporal agents the Empire starts out, how powerful the temporal agent's Space-Time Displacement Device (STDD) is and how much they have to adhere to the temporal prime directive. If the Empire starts with complete intelligence of their tech they'd probably rush and try to secure that technology for themselves/destroy it no matter the cost. Of course, the temporal agents could attempt to establish their base of operations somewhere else in time, in a period where the Empire is oblivious to their presence similar to what the Xindi tried in ENT (Carpenter Street). So unless the Empire is helped by another time-travelling agency I think there's not much they can do to get at them.
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:36pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
Huh, that's pretty cool. I was mainly working of the stuff from enterprise, rather than voyager (I never saw much of the later voyager).

So we can accept a higher lower end of weapons that are slightly more powerful than 24th century trek. I mean that's not much more powerful, all things considered, is it?

Quote:
So unless the Empire is helped by another time-travelling agency I think there's not much they can do to get at them.

Fair point. So our end result, assuming the OP doesn't force total war (and fuck the OP) is that the UFP causes the downfall of the GE by starting the splintering early, seeing the collapse of the Empire early (can we assume 0by?).
It's a defeat in as much as the Empire is gone and the rebel alliance becomes the republic much earlier and we don't have to have Death Star remembrance day?
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Agent Sorchus
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:42pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2008-08-16 09:01pm
Posts: 1116
You're asking about the possibilities of a conflict between time travelers and future predicting bastards. And there is too little to say about the 31st century "UFP". (Hint, we don't know if they even call themselves the United Federation of Planets so how can we call anything about them at all.)

They still have scale problems, such that they aren't guaranteed to be able to deploy enough agents to the field to actually effect the Star Wars Galaxy. (I believe we are told that there are limited number of possible field agents and there are a limited number of times they can go into action in another time before they are stuck due to health issues. What the actual limits are are never stated, but they aren't Time Lords.)
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Metahive
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:45pm 

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Joined: 2010-09-02 09:08am
Posts: 2426
Location: Little Korea in Big Germany
barnest2 wrote:
Fair point. So our end result, assuming the OP doesn't force total war (and fuck the OP) is that the UFP causes the downfall of the GE by starting the splintering early, seeing the collapse of the Empire early (can we assume 0by?).
It's a defeat in as much as the Empire is gone and the rebel alliance becomes the republic much earlier and we don't have to have Death Star remembrance day?

That's one way it might go down. Unfortunately the OP has skimped on telling us any details of this particular VS scenario, like how do the two factions come into contact, how much do they know about each other and what objectives they have to achieve.

Laaaaaazy.
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HMS Sophia
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:48pm 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
Posts: 1199
Location: Watching the levee break
Metahive wrote:
That's one way it might go down. Unfortunately the OP has skimped on telling us any details of this particular VS scenario, like how do the two factions come into contact, how much do they know about each other and what objectives they have to achieve.

Laaaaaazy.

That's because the fuckwit knows nothing about the future 'UFP', making this whole thing ridiculous...

I like the idea of an early collapse of the Empire. It could leave the rebels without a lot of their planetary supporters, without much of their power-base and similar.
In fact, considering how much things changed between Yavin and the death of the Emperor, do you think the rebels could have taken control?
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Metahive
PostPosted: 2011-07-22 04:56pm 

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Joined: 2010-09-02 09:08am
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Location: Little Korea in Big Germany
I have no idea. The temporal agents might vanish Palpatine before he sends off Galen Marek to found the Rebellion or even before he proclaims himself Emperor. If they know enough details of imperial history they could attempt to sabotage Anakin's hovercar so he can't go and save Palpatine from Windu in time. I think that would be their best choice. It would prevent the Empire from coming about, keep the SW galaxy locked in a bloody civil war and keep their interference low-key enough so as to not draw any unwanted attention.

There are just too many possibilities and variables to this scenario.

I therefore demand the OP flesh his scenario out more.
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