Senator Palpatine takes a trip

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Einzige
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Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby Einzige » 2010-04-25 05:16pm

This isn't really a military versus debate, but it's an idea I've had floating around in my head for some time.

By act of Q, an identical copy of then-Senator Palpatine from a period ten years before the events of The Phantom Menace is inserted into the Federation approximately ten years before "Encounter At Farpoint". Q considers this to be a fun game, and tells Palpaclone his mission: to subvert the Federation and establish himself as dictator within a quarter of a century - roughly the same amount of time it took him to do so from the point he was pulled out of the GFFA to Revenge of the Sith. Palpatine is given a Darth Maul clone to help him in his mission, and all of his personal affects (his lightsaber, Sidious cloak, etc.). He's given ten thousand Federation credits to start with, and a datapad glossing over the most significant elements of Federation technology and Federation politics. He starts out in the streets of San Francisco with no room and no board. Assume that the Force works in the Milky Way exactly as it does in Star Wars. Also assume that Galactic Basic sounds like Federation English for the purpose of the mission, and visa-versa.

Can he succeed?
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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby BLACKSUN2000 » 2010-04-25 07:50pm

Wasn't this scenario already done on a different thread?
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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2010-04-25 10:22pm

On the one hand, Federation security is notoriously bad, and Palpatine is a master of political manipulation and subterfuge. Also, unlike the Republic's Jedi, there is nothing in the Federation that can take him one-on-one in a fight.

However, he won't nessissarily have an easy time of it. Certainly the tricks he employed canonically wouldn't work without modifications. There is no obvious underlying dissatisfaction with the government (at least not on the same scale) for him to exploit to build a separatist movement. There is no Anakin equivalent so far as we know. There is also a long history of Starfleet officers who hold the Federation's rights and laws sacred and will disobey orders to uphold them/the greater good (ie Kirk, Picard, Sisko).

I imagine Palpatine is a clever enough politician and manipulator that he could likely get himself made President, provided he is able to mask his true nature from telepaths/empaths like the Betazoids. However, if he started acting like the unquestioned Emperor of the Federation he would face open rebellion from officers like Picard. Frankly, I imagine the end result of a Palpatine Presidency would be a schism in Starfleet resulting in a civil war. Who would win is anyone's guess. Probably the Federation's hostile neighbors (Romulans, Klingons depending on the time period, possibly the Dominion or Borg) exploit the internal division to attack.

Of course, Palpatine doesn't have to take the subvert from within approach that he does for the Republic. Unlike the Republic, the Federation has hostile neighbors with arguably greater military power. Palpatine can take over one of them in a coup and go ass-kicking. Harder to do in that most or all of these factions would probably not accept a human leader, but there are compensating advantages. The Klingons should be easy to pull a coup on, given one can apparently take the leadership in a duel with the Chancellor. So, Palpatine can buy off a Klingon warrior, or find and turn a Klingon Force-sensitive, or surgically alter Maul to make him appear Klingon, and take over the Empire and all its military assets in a single duel. Then, attack the Federation. Or, in a variation of his Clone Wars ploy of controlling both sides, become Federation President, then have his pawn take over the Klingons and attack, possibly giving him the pretext to declare martial law in the Federation. The Klingon pawn can be disposed of as soon as he's no longer useful, of course.

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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2010-04-25 10:53pm

Did some digging, and BLACKSUN2000 is right: there was a thread like this before: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48059&hiit=Palpatine+Federation.

Some of my points were even raised there, ie the risk of rebellion from within Starfleet.

From the old thread:

Prozac the Robert wrote:And starfleet is most likely full of a lot more idealists than the old republic navy, so he may well have to deal with a much bigger rebelion. He also has no hope of building any of his favourite superweapons, and without hyperspace he can't get his forces into place to quickly crush rebelion.

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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby NecronLord » 2010-04-27 06:20pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:On the one hand, Federation security is notoriously bad, and Palpatine is a master of political manipulation and subterfuge. Also, unlike the Republic's Jedi, there is nothing in the Federation that can take him one-on-one in a fight.

However, he won't nessissarily have an easy time of it. Certainly the tricks he employed canonically wouldn't work without modifications. There is no obvious underlying dissatisfaction with the government (at least not on the same scale) for him to exploit to build a separatist movement.
He also can't start a civil war, if he does, the Klingons or Romulans (or Borg) might snap them up. That's not a problem in Star Wars.

I think he'd have to engineer some kind of threat akin to the borg and declare emergency powers, but I have little doubt he could.
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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby montypython » 2010-04-29 08:22pm

NecronLord wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:On the one hand, Federation security is notoriously bad, and Palpatine is a master of political manipulation and subterfuge. Also, unlike the Republic's Jedi, there is nothing in the Federation that can take him one-on-one in a fight.

However, he won't nessissarily have an easy time of it. Certainly the tricks he employed canonically wouldn't work without modifications. There is no obvious underlying dissatisfaction with the government (at least not on the same scale) for him to exploit to build a separatist movement.
He also can't start a civil war, if he does, the Klingons or Romulans (or Borg) might snap them up. That's not a problem in Star Wars.

I think he'd have to engineer some kind of threat akin to the borg and declare emergency powers, but I have little doubt he could.


Considering Admiral Leighton's attempt at that, Palpatine's chances would be very good indeed.

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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby Darth Lucifer » 2010-04-30 12:02am

If it was sooner, Palpatine might be able to recruit ppl from the Maquis.
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Re: Senator Palpatine takes a trip

Postby Themightytom » 2010-04-30 03:36pm

NecronLord wrote:He also can't start a civil war, if he does, the Klingons or Romulans (or Borg) might snap them up. That's not a problem in Star Wars.

I think he'd have to engineer some kind of threat akin to the borg and declare emergency powers, but I have little doubt he could.


If Palpatine can get himself into some political position in the federation, he can deploy Maul in much the same manner as he did in TPM, probably to the Klingon Empire as his fighting prowess would get him some respect there. Don't forget Riker got himself promoted to captain within days of showing up. organize for a convenient slaughtering of the higher Federation cabinet by the Klingons and Palpatine could step in with emergency powers leading to the same eventual Empire in SW galaxy, though.

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