Defiant's armor against projectiles
Moderator: Vympel
Defiant's armor against projectiles
I've never heard this incident discussed before, but I thought it was pretty funny - I'm just watching the episode now.
In Starship Down (Season 4), the Defiant is hunted by two Jem'Hadar ships while hiding in a gas giant's atmosphere - at one point, the Jem'Hadar launch two "torpedoes" (never seen again, as far as I know) at the Defiant - the ship manages to dodge the first.
Now, these torpedoes are said to be closing "fast". The second torpedo is described as still closing - we don't see it hit - but the range is called out as it gets closer.
At 26:17-18, the miscellaneous crewman calls out the range as 100m - then 75m, then 50m, then impact at 26:27. In other words - it took about 10 seconds for the torpedo to fly 100m - or 36km/h (I'm sure one could estimate it more accurately, but who cares - its starting range and the time it hit are good enough).
(It's of course even worse when you consider the angle the torpedoes approached from)
The results? The torpedo didn't detonate. It did, however, show up wedged in the wall of the mess hall - where Quark and his Karemma associate try and disarm it.
What would the consistency of Defiant's armor be, really? Butter?
In Starship Down (Season 4), the Defiant is hunted by two Jem'Hadar ships while hiding in a gas giant's atmosphere - at one point, the Jem'Hadar launch two "torpedoes" (never seen again, as far as I know) at the Defiant - the ship manages to dodge the first.
Now, these torpedoes are said to be closing "fast". The second torpedo is described as still closing - we don't see it hit - but the range is called out as it gets closer.
At 26:17-18, the miscellaneous crewman calls out the range as 100m - then 75m, then 50m, then impact at 26:27. In other words - it took about 10 seconds for the torpedo to fly 100m - or 36km/h (I'm sure one could estimate it more accurately, but who cares - its starting range and the time it hit are good enough).
(It's of course even worse when you consider the angle the torpedoes approached from)
The results? The torpedo didn't detonate. It did, however, show up wedged in the wall of the mess hall - where Quark and his Karemma associate try and disarm it.
What would the consistency of Defiant's armor be, really? Butter?
Last edited by Vympel on 2008-01-04 07:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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*continues watching*
Here's where O'Brien thinks it hit:
Here's where O'Brien thinks it hit:
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Dude it's a CRYSTAL look at it! Crystals, as you know, have bizarre and special properties allowing them to do virtually anything!
The best part for me is that the crystal is BLUNT. Best penetrator ever, and the internal luminence makes it seem quite low mass too. Low mass, low speed, blunt...
The best part for me is that the crystal is BLUNT. Best penetrator ever, and the internal luminence makes it seem quite low mass too. Low mass, low speed, blunt...
OOU? Because they figured the audience was too stupid to figure out when the torpedo had been disarmed.Thanatos wrote:Why does it have a gigantic light bulb for a warhead?
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Of more interest is since the defiant is purpose designed as a warship what does this say about the hull's on galaxy intrepid and so on?.
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From watching the episode you'll get the opposite impression - the thing acts like it's been coated with dry ice.FA Xerrik wrote:Well it's glowy and smoky so it must be really hot, probably melted it's way through the hull
Yeah, it was merely faulty. Quark disarms it with a random guess as to which component to pull out of the conveniently accessible insides.What ended up happening to this thing, anyways? Was it meant to detonate and simply fail to do so?
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The dude on the right was the Karemma arms dealer who sold that make of torpedo to the Dominion. He admits it's just crap merchandise.FA Xerrik wrote:Well it's glowy and smoky so it must be really hot, probably melted it's way through the hull
What ended up happening to this thing, anyways? Was it meant to detonate and simply fail to do so?
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This is what you get when you have writers that are in love with WW2 battles, but don't do any research. That being said did you factor in the Defiants possibly direction and speed before they started evasive action?
This brings up a small rant of mine. WW2 tributes do not belong in space combat. It makes the battles slow, and unimaginative.
This brings up a small rant of mine. WW2 tributes do not belong in space combat. It makes the battles slow, and unimaginative.
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Did anyone else but me have to take a double take? In the second picture the torpedo looks like it hit towards the back of the starboard drive section (at least that's what I think it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong), in the third O'Brien's pointing towards the front of the ship.Vympel wrote:*continues watching*
Here's where O'Brien thinks it hit:
-snip pic-
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The second picture is the Defiant dodging the first torpedo.General Schatten wrote:Did anyone else but me have to take a double take? In the second picture the torpedo looks like it hit towards the back of the starboard drive section (at least that's what I think it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong), in the third O'Brien's pointing towards the front of the ship.Vympel wrote:*continues watching*
Here's where O'Brien thinks it hit:
-snip pic-
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My bad, that looked like a hit. I need to get to bed, I pulled another all-nighter.Bounty wrote:The second picture is the Defiant dodging the first torpedo.General Schatten wrote:Did anyone else but me have to take a double take? In the second picture the torpedo looks like it hit towards the back of the starboard drive section (at least that's what I think it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong), in the third O'Brien's pointing towards the front of the ship.Vympel wrote:*continues watching*
Here's where O'Brien thinks it hit:
-snip pic-
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Quick note Vympel, you screwed up the speed by an order of magnitude, it should be 36km/h. Not that is all that less pathetic, seeing as how that's the approximate speed of a good Olympic sprinter.
And I now have this image of a guy running at the Defiant and doing a flying kick that carries him through the hull.
This incident should definitely be filed under the "didn't do the fucking math" category.
And I now have this image of a guy running at the Defiant and doing a flying kick that carries him through the hull.
This incident should definitely be filed under the "didn't do the fucking math" category.
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You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
Even if that were so, Quark and his buddy wouldn't be standing so close to something that would be giving off tremendous heat and not feel the effects.FA Xerrik wrote:Well it's glowy and smoky so it must be really hot, probably melted it's way through the hull
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Granted. I was attempting to go for the sarcastic approach there, since clearly anything that could melt through the "ablative armor" would be far too hot to be standing around as Quark and this lanky fellow are doing.Balrog wrote:Even if that were so, Quark and his buddy wouldn't be standing so close to something that would be giving off tremendous heat and not feel the effects.
Actually, do we know how the ablative armor might affect an impact like this? The U.S.S. Odyssey showed Starfleet vessels are pretty weak against kinetic impact, after all. Perhaps that weakness, and/or the funky ablative properties of the Defiant's armor plate, could at least partly explain this incident. I'm not up to par on my DS9 lore though, so I honestly have no idea if something like this even makes sense.