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Wouldn't Picard have been questioned over not using the nexus to go a bit further back in time? Even if he inexplicably chose not to save his family, i doubt Temporal Investigations would have complained if he'd gone far back enough to prevent La Forge from getting captured or something.

Well, that opens up a host of possible issues, depending. It's been said the Nexis can take you anywhere at any time, but are you ever able to leave the Nexis? Was Picard still in the Nexis, with this fantasy that he managed to save the day and walk away? Or did it really happen? That's the problem when you deal with a band of energy with such incredible powers but still very ill defined.

If he didn't escape the Nexus plot device, then that thing would have do some weird stuff in order to simulate two new classes of ships, and the knowledge of ketresel white for the other movies to make sense in this theory.

Probably less ridiculous than the fact that Kirk and Picard just walk out of the Nexus.

The Nexus is extremely ill defined and poorly understood. It's quite possible that it's actually some form of energy spaceship controlled by highly advanced beings who are capable of picking up randos from whatever ships they encounter and inserting them into some sort of program to examine their personalities. Who's to say it didn't deliberately choose *when* to let Picard and Kirk go, and that just happened to be in a convenient spot and place to wrestle Soran? Because frankly, there's a lot of random possibilities, and it was never examined much beyond the whole 'you can make your dreams come true if you live here' part.

That bugged me when I saw the movie in theaters at 8 years old. I honestly thought that the entire crew of the Enterprise D and the planet were destroyed and that everything from Generations onward for Picard was some weird Nexus fantasy.

A lot of people still cling to that notion to this day. Even though it became impossible the moment that Worf stepped onto the set of DS9.

Or maybe the entirety of Star Trek after 2293 (Guinan going into the Nexus) is in Guinan's head?

I know it's a little bit late, but I was wondering who would be court martialed over the failure to eject the warp core and/or antimatter storage pods?

Tribble wrote:I know it's a little bit late, but I was wondering who would be court martialed over the failure to eject the warp core and/or antimatter storage pods?

If the failure is due to poorly designed ejection systems, then the people who designed, tested, and approved them could be found liable. If the crew are trained to eject the core and antimatter pods but fail to do so, they could be court-martialed for that. If they were never trained to do so and it wasn't part of the standard emergency procedure, then it becomes a bit trickier to lay blame because you can't fault someone for not doing what they were never trained to do in the first place.

You know I get that the Nexus is an energy ribbon but at the speed we saw it moving at (25 odd mph?):

1.) How the hell did it make it from near Sol to Viridian 3 or any other star for that matter in the time period we see?

2.) I am failing to see how a nearby super nova, and in astronomical terms "nearby" is more like up its asshole in this case, doesn't destroy or somehow severely alter the Nexus. Not such a good thing for good old Soran if he plans to live there forever.

Patroklos wrote:You know I get that the Nexus is an energy ribbon but at the speed we saw it moving at (25 odd mph?):

1.) How the hell did it make it from near Sol to Viridian 3 or any other star for that matter in the time period we see?

2.) I am failing to see how a nearby super nova, and in astronomical terms "nearby" is more like up its asshole in this case, doesn't destroy or somehow severely alter the Nexus. Not such a good thing for good old Soran if he plans to live there forever.

IIRC the Nexus was moving pretty quick to pass through the planet the way it did, but I completely understand what you mean. It's the magical mcguffin they didn't really think through since it's pretty obvious that there are plot holes associated with it. That is, unless the damned thing was way closer to Earth than we originally knew about. Because either it was close to Earth for the whole Enterprise-B thing being the only ship in range, or Starfleet was pinching pennies so tight that the Enterprise-B was expected to defend half the Federation from the Klingons. Wait... that's standard operating procedure, never mind.

And also, if the thing isn't affected by matter, then it would have had no effect on any of the ships we saw. Yet it did. So... what the hell? And if it only affects biological matter, then did it take along some plants? Are those plants now sitting in a perfectly sunny location absorbing all the sunlight they can? Seriously. So many issues with it that if the report were based on the crew's report, then I'm seriously wondering if they didn't fuck with the report just to say, "This was a fucked up situation."

And what happened to Soran? He was taken by the Nexus too right? Is a version of him still in there?

There probably is, but from when he had his original encounter with the Nexus and was rescued by the Enterprise-B.

As for when he was sucked into the Nexus along with Picard, I can only assume that either that was undone, or when Picard (and Kirk) left the Nexus he was deposited into a duplicate version of his original timeline. Otherwise, it's a good thing that Soran's plan when he went into the Nexus was apparently just to indulge his fantasies rather than, say, travelling a century into the past and using his knowledge of trilithium bombs and other future technologies to wipe out the Borg before they can destroy the El Aurian homeworld, and then set himself up as First Galactic Emperor.

If you listen carefully to what Soren says in his confrontation with Picard in the 3rd quarter of the film, he talks about how the one constant in the universe is death, and that time is a predator stalking us all, bound to catch up to us in the end and kill us.

His actions in the film make sense in that regards re: "using his knowledge of trilithium bombs and other future technologies to wipe out the Borg before they can destroy the El Aurian homeworld, and then set himself up as First Galactic Emperor." He wasn't out to save his world. There wasn't any point in it. He wanted to be immortal and free from the pains of the universe.

But that motivation follows the death of his wife and world. Death is probably less of a sting if you grow old and die with your wife by your side surrounded by loving children confident in a world and life for them that will exist after you as opposed to after invading killer cyborgs convert your loved ones to mindless drones and destroy your life, world and everything in it. At least it would for me. His motivation should be to save his wife and return to his life not end up in a glorified holodeck fucking the sexbot/hologram that perfectly mirrors his memory of his wife when he knows that is exactly all it is. It wasn't good enough for Kirk when he didn't know what the Nexus was, how could the Soren we see on screen settle for that when the better option is available?

Which coincidentally is why Nero's motivations in NuTrek made zero sense.

To be fair, there was never any indication that Soran knew of the Nexus's ability to let someone re-enter their personal timeline at whichever point they wanted. If he'd known that, I'd imagine that at the very least he'd have gone back to rescue his wife and family, then (assuming the technology was available) pulled off his little star-imploding trick 40 years earlier and taken them all into the Nexus back then.

The question I'd ask if I were confronted with the Nexus would be, is the Nexus really taking me back in time? Or just letting me THINK it's happening. There would be tests, of course, but ultimately... how can you ever know for certain? I mean, what if each fantasy is simply an alternate universe that the Nexus allows you to bounce between? Every possibility, played out, allowing you to literally experience any possible consequence of your actions, including just randomly popping in and saving the day. I guess that's just me,

Baffalo wrote:The question I'd ask if I were confronted with the Nexus would be, is the Nexus really taking me back in time? Or just letting me THINK it's happening. There would be tests, of course, but ultimately... how can you ever know for certain? I mean, what if each fantasy is simply an alternate universe that the Nexus allows you to bounce between? Every possibility, played out, allowing you to literally experience any possible consequence of your actions, including just randomly popping in and saving the day. I guess that's just me,

That's my problem with it. The properties of the Nexus are not well defined. Is it capable of teleporting you backwards / forwards in real time to anywhere you wish, or is it all a fantasy and everything that happened since then is actually in Picard's mind?

So back to the topic, why didn't Riker just curb stomp the BoP the second they had Geordi back? These guys are in cahoots with a dude about to murder billions, they were involved in a raid on a Federation observatory in some capacity (there actions caused it), kidnapped and tortured a Federation officer and now have potential access to the most devastating weapon ever observed via any Star Trek media. Oh, and by the way, these guys are banished provocateurs in active rebellion against the Klingon state whom are currently your allies.

Millions. Only 230 million on Veridian 4. Bad enough, of course.

And as for why he didn't just blow them out of the sky after he got Geordi back... that whole Federation thing of being nice guys. Their biggest weakness. They also don't know that the Romulans attacked the observatory *because* of the Duras sisters, they only know that the Romulans attacked it, or at least they don't really have any proof to the contrary.

I actually picked up Generations at the library book sale this last weekend, and re-watched it this morning, so a few observations:

--Soran wants to redirect the Nexus to pass over a planet because it tends to destroy ships that approach nearby. Ummm... how did he get into it in the first place? How did Kirk get into it? He must've gotten hitten harder on the head than that scar looked.

--When he first fires the rocket at the sun from Veridian 3, it starts dimming almost immediately (never mind the whole it gets there in a couple of seconds bit). It'd take a few minutes, actually, wouldn't it. A minor detail... but annoying.

--More minor details: Why is Picard's version of Christmas straight out of a Dickens novel? Ugh. Random carousels in the living room. But there's some small consolation-- one of his "kids" pulls out a rather interesting model of, apparently, a starfighter of some kind? Wouldn't mind a closer look at that.

-- Why does not the fucking Enterprise have SEAT BELTS. Goddamnit.

--Kirk has been in the Nexus for... 78 years. Picard is there for a few minutes, and he realizes it's not right. Guinan was there for (possibly) even less time (we don't know how long the El-Aurian ships were stuck in the Nexus before the E-B came to the rescue). So... how does Kirk not figure out that he's in a simulated reality in 78 years? Stasis?

--Back to the start of the movie. What kind of fucking idiot lets the ship out of drydock without at the very least a tractor beam, which could be considered a part of basic navigational and maneuvering equipment? Photon torpedoes I can understand not having (they're just taking a maiden spin around the block). But a tractor beam... you would think at the very least that it would be part of the essential hardwired equipment of the ship.

And all the goddamn press. I understand the press being on the bridge at the start when everybody's boarding, that's fine. But they should've been shooed to a convenient observation lounge, Ten-Forward-B or whatever, when they set off.

--You would think they would upgrade the Federation flagship so it's, I don't know, a bit tougher after all the shit that happens in the series. But nope. A few photon torpedoes and disruptor hits, and poof. Fucking absurd.

Borgholio wrote:That's my problem with it. The properties of the Nexus are not well defined. Is it capable of teleporting you backwards / forwards in real time to anywhere you wish, or is it all a fantasy and everything that happened since then is actually in Picard's mind?

In the context of the Star Trek universe Picard obviously did come back and stop Soran, otherwise it'd mean that Worf, Troi and Barclay all died on Veridian 3, rendering it impossible for them to show up in later TV episodes. If we were only talking about the film, I suppose you could argue that Picard couldn't have known about the Enterprise crash-landing, and would have no reason to fantasize that event taking place, especially since he was likely expecting the future seen in "All Good Things" to be the one that would actually happen.

Elheru Aran wrote:--Soran wants to redirect the Nexus to pass over a planet because it tends to destroy ships that approach nearby. Ummm... how did he get into it in the first place? How did Kirk get into it? He must've gotten hitten harder on the head than that scar looked.

That would actually have made more sense if Kirk hadn't been pulled into the Nexus. Without that, you could argue that Soran and Guinan didn't truly enter the Nexus and would have died when the transport ships were destroyed, but Kirk got sucked in from a far greater distance than Soran and Guinan.

--More minor details: Why is Picard's version of Christmas straight out of a Dickens novel?

Picard's from a traditionalist family, and has a keen interest in classical literature. The scene's a little off-the-wall, but not entirely out of character; hell, the recent death of his brother and nephew were probably causing him to think of some romanticized ideal of Christmas.

--Kirk has been in the Nexus for... 78 years. Picard is there for a few minutes, and he realizes it's not right. Guinan was there for (possibly) even less time (we don't know how long the El-Aurian ships were stuck in the Nexus before the E-B came to the rescue). So... how does Kirk not figure out that he's in a simulated reality in 78 years? Stasis?

Something to do with time working differently in the Nexus, I think. Guinan said that from Kirk's perspective, he had only just arrived too. If anything, Kirk actually seemed to work out that he was in the Nexus faster than Picard did (saying something to the effect of "Wait, I was just in the Ent-B deflector room, now I'm chopping wood?"), but for whatever reason was more willing to throw himself into his fantasy.

--You would think they would upgrade the Federation flagship so it's, I don't know, a bit tougher after all the shit that happens in the series. But nope. A few photon torpedoes and disruptor hits, and poof. Fucking absurd.

See here's the thing that makes me shake my head at the Federation. Ok, I get that you don't want your ships to look like warships. Ok, I get that your primary mission is exploration and you don't want to appear threatening to any new species you encounter. I get that, and it makes sense. Peaceful explorers should look peaceful. However, they are fucking idiots if they forget the one of the most important adages in history is that in order to have peace you must prepare for war. So fine, keep your ships looking like peaceful exploration ships. Nothing stopping you from putting a foot of armor plate under the hull or add internal defensive forcefields, or have phasers automatically target incoming torpedoes as a kind of point defense.

DaveJB wrote: In the context of the Star Trek universe Picard obviously did come back and stop Soran, otherwise it'd mean that Worf, Troi and Barclay all died on Veridian 3, rendering it impossible for them to show up in later TV episodes. If we were only talking about the film, I suppose you could argue that Picard couldn't have known about the Enterprise crash-landing, and would have no reason to fantasize that event taking place, especially since he was likely expecting the future seen in "All Good Things" to be the one that would actually happen.

No problems here. Presumably all the shuttle craft in the saucer section shuttle bays are fine. Just load up the named characters and leave the red shirts to their fate.

So when does Picard going to be court marshaled for abandoning a priceless Kurlan Naiskos?

Baffalo wrote:The question I'd ask if I were confronted with the Nexus would be, is the Nexus really taking me back in time? Or just letting me THINK it's happening. There would be tests, of course, but ultimately... how can you ever know for certain? I mean, what if each fantasy is simply an alternate universe that the Nexus allows you to bounce between? Every possibility, played out, allowing you to literally experience any possible consequence of your actions, including just randomly popping in and saving the day. I guess that's just me,

No, it makes sense.

I've long argued that Star Trek "time travel" isn't time travel at all, rather dimensional travel to parallel universes (as observed in the TNG episode "Parallels".) - This is the explanation for why history changes in those timelines, and yet the protagonists seem to be aware of those changes when they should not be. In short, you can't go back and kill your own grandfather, but you could go back and kill the grandfather of a parallel you.

The "Nexus" if you will, is exactly that. It is where all of these parallel dimensions join. Allowing you to re-live your fondest memories, or even live out fantasies that never existed. It makes one wonder if the Q have figured out how to tap into that power, and that is the source for how they seemingly do what they do.

I've long argued that Star Trek "time travel" isn't time travel at all, rather dimensional travel to parallel universes

Actually that's how it is. This was clearly explained via dialogue in the new Star Trek.