Your favorite ST Starship design

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Your favorite ST Starship

Constitution TOS/Refit (Classic)
22
23%
Excelsior (workhorse of the fleet)
10
10%
Galaxy (oh my God that saucer is huge!)
2
2%
Bird of Prey TOS/Movies (Klingon Classic)
3
3%
D'deridex (Man this thing is big)
11
11%
Miranda/Reliant (KHAAANNNN!!!!)
6
6%
Sovereign (sleek and dangerous)
13
13%
Defiant (small but dangerous)
14
14%
D-7/K'tinga (workhorse)
3
3%
Other (anything else)
13
13%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Darth Tedious » 2012-01-05 11:47pm

Didn't they try and reconcile the GCS's unstable warp core with some fluff about it being all overclocked and shit?

Not that it really helps...
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Cesario » 2012-01-06 01:07am

They also spent some time pointing out that the Enterprise was an early ship in the GCS line that hadn't had all the kinks worked out.

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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Uraniun235 » 2012-01-06 02:13am

Darth Tedious wrote:Didn't they try and reconcile the GCS's unstable warp core with some fluff about it being all overclocked and shit?

Not that it really helps...

No, I don't recall this occurring in any of the series at all. You may be thinking of a fanfiction theory that Mike hoked up about the main reactor being roughly the same size as that seen in a refit-Constitution class, and therefore being a similar design being asked to do much more than it was originally intended for.

There was actually at least one instance in the series where the warp core was replaced with a new one that was supposed to offer higher performance; this occurred in that TNG episode where Data starts dreaming about miners who want to tear him apart and Counselor Troi as a cake.

Alternately, you may be misremembering lines in DS9 about the Defiant being "overgunned" or "too powerful" to the point that it would "shake itself apart."

Cesario wrote:They also spent some time pointing out that the Enterprise was an early ship in the GCS line that hadn't had all the kinks worked out.

To my knowledge, this conversation never occurred in any of the series. You may be remembering TNG Contagion, where the crew spends time worrying about whether Yamato had been destroyed by a design flaw*, before realizing that both ships had been compromised by an invasive alien software program. However, at this point in the series, all of the Galaxy-class starships were very new, as the Enterprise-D was supposed to be almost brand-new at the start of the show.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Uraniun235 » 2012-01-06 02:21am

Enigma wrote:As I recall, the Galor fired on the Enterprise and knocked its shields down by a third. Picard just sat there until forced to withdraw. Don't remember too much of it only remembering that a single shot\volley\salvo took a chunk of the E-D's shields. We don't know how the Galaxy class would have fared against a Galor or Keldon in combat AFAIK before the Dominion War. During the war it kicked ass but then again they could have been upgraded by then.

Picard was not forced to withdraw in The Wounded. The Galor actually got a shot in before the shields were raised; structural integrity was specifically stated to not be compromised, and we never even hear of any casualties. Meanwhile, after a few seconds of phaser fire, the Enterprise was able to shred the Galor's shields.

You may be thinking of Parallels, where the Enterprise took several hits that caused substantial damage that forced Picard to flee. However, this was (again) after Worf failed to raise the shields, because he had been transported into an alternate universe where the control panel layouts were unfamiliar. This was also in an alternate universe, which may not be indicative of Cardassian technology in the main timeline shown by the series.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Enigma » 2012-01-06 09:24am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Was it a core breach or just the engines not working in Wrath of Kahn?

Either way, the Enterprise A vs the Bird of Prey in The Undiscovered Country may have taken less damage, but it also had functional shields did it not?


I do not consider having a whole punctured through the saucer as having suffered less damage. But then again with my fuzzy memory that may have happened to Sulu's ship.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Darth Tedious » 2012-01-06 09:28am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Darth Tedious wrote:Didn't they try and reconcile the GCS's unstable warp core with some fluff about it being all overclocked and shit?

Not that it really helps...

No, I don't recall this occurring in any of the series at all. You may be thinking of a fanfiction theory that Mike hoked up about the main reactor being roughly the same size as that seen in a refit-Constitution class, and therefore being a similar design being asked to do much more than it was originally intended for.

I don't even think I've read that theory. I do agree, it wasn't ever covered in the series. I was pretty sure it was some fluff from one of the technical manuals. Most likely it was a response to the amount of people who picked on it.

It came up in a thread a while ago when someone asked why Voyager's core was so much more stable, I wish I could remember the reference (it was properly sourced, IIRC).
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2012-01-06 04:26pm

Enigma wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Was it a core breach or just the engines not working in Wrath of Kahn?

Either way, the Enterprise A vs the Bird of Prey in The Undiscovered Country may have taken less damage, but it also had functional shields did it not?


I do not consider having a whole punctured through the saucer as having suffered less damage. But then again with my fuzzy memory that may have happened to Sulu's ship.


I'm afraid I rather do consider a hole in the saucer as less serious than a warp core breach that destroys half the ship and forces the other half to crash land.

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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Enigma » 2012-01-06 04:50pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Enigma wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Was it a core breach or just the engines not working in Wrath of Kahn?

Either way, the Enterprise A vs the Bird of Prey in The Undiscovered Country may have taken less damage, but it also had functional shields did it not?


I do not consider having a whole punctured through the saucer as having suffered less damage. But then again with my fuzzy memory that may have happened to Sulu's ship.


I'm afraid I rather do consider a hole in the saucer as less serious than a warp core breach that destroys half the ship and forces the other half to crash land.


Then it proves that the E-A can take more punishment and survive while the E-D takes a few hits and its core breaches. E-D took a few hits and its core breached while the E-A took a lot more punishment including ventilating the saucer and managed to stay in one piece. So my point still stands.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-01-06 04:56pm

Enigma wrote:Then it proves that the E-A can take more punishment and survive while the E-D takes a few hits and its core breaches. E-D took a few hits and its core breached while the E-A took a lot more punishment including ventilating the saucer and managed to stay in one piece. So my point still stands.


Because a single torpedeo into a saucer is comparable to repeated fire directly into the drive system.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-01-06 04:56pm

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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Uraniun235 » 2012-01-06 06:33pm

Guys, the "saucer got holed" thing is totally irrelevant when we have an actual example of the Enterprise-refit taking damage directly to the drive system: the opening salvo in The Wrath of Khan.

Darth Tedious wrote:I don't even think I've read that theory. I do agree, it wasn't ever covered in the series. I was pretty sure it was some fluff from one of the technical manuals. Most likely it was a response to the amount of people who picked on it.

It came up in a thread a while ago when someone asked why Voyager's core was so much more stable, I wish I could remember the reference (it was properly sourced, IIRC).

I don't recall seeing that in either the TNG or DS9 tech manuals.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-01-06 06:54pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Guys, the "saucer got holed" thing is totally irrelevant when we have an actual example of the Enterprise-refit taking damage directly to the drive system: the opening salvo in The Wrath of Khan.


Well quite. But I wasn't going to make his argument for him was I?

Plus the E-D takes nearly identical damage from a borg cutting beam (twice) in BoBW and handles it much better than the E-nil in TWok. Restoring main power and capability, very quickly compared the E-nil limping about for the rest of the film.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Cesario » 2012-01-06 07:36pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
Cesario wrote:They also spent some time pointing out that the Enterprise was an early ship in the GCS line that hadn't had all the kinks worked out.

To my knowledge, this conversation never occurred in any of the series. You may be remembering TNG Contagion, where the crew spends time worrying about whether Yamato had been destroyed by a design flaw*, before realizing that both ships had been compromised by an invasive alien software program. However, at this point in the series, all of the Galaxy-class starships were very new, as the Enterprise-D was supposed to be almost brand-new at the start of the show.

You may be right about that. It's been a while since I saw that episode.

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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Batman » 2012-01-06 07:43pm

To my knowledge, the Galaxy Warp core being redlined all the time is indeed nothing more than Mike's theory from a while back (a sensible theory if you ask me, but nothing more than that) but given the pounding the Galaxies took in the Dominion war I think the TNG ones Which were brand spanking new at the series' start still working out the kinks (one of them possibly being a slightly...oversensitive Warp core) absolutely makes sense.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Uraniun235 » 2012-01-06 10:29pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Guys, the "saucer got holed" thing is totally irrelevant when we have an actual example of the Enterprise-refit taking damage directly to the drive system: the opening salvo in The Wrath of Khan.


Well quite. But I wasn't going to make his argument for him was I?

Plus the E-D takes nearly identical damage from a borg cutting beam (twice) in BoBW and handles it much better than the E-nil in TWok. Restoring main power and capability, very quickly compared the E-nil limping about for the rest of the film.

Ent-D also has much more volume sitting between the outer hull and the reactor compartment/main plasma conduits to the nacelles, and never actually lost main power.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Skylon » 2012-01-07 09:31am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Guys, the "saucer got holed" thing is totally irrelevant when we have an actual example of the Enterprise-refit taking damage directly to the drive system: the opening salvo in The Wrath of Khan.


Well quite. But I wasn't going to make his argument for him was I?

Plus the E-D takes nearly identical damage from a borg cutting beam (twice) in BoBW and handles it much better than the E-nil in TWok. Restoring main power and capability, very quickly compared the E-nil limping about for the rest of the film.


The damage in TNG may not have actually hit the drive system though. The Borg indeed breach the hull in engineering, necessitating an evacuation, but may have failed to hit the warp core directly. The opening in salvo in TWOK we see evidence that the warp core was being directly damaged:

Where the explosions start happening - http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... hd0448.jpg

Post-salvo - the pressure door is going down, and the sparks don't have the warp core looking good - http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... hd0455.jpg

The yellow shit can't be good - http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... hd0463.jpg

In BOBW there is never any mention of the Ent-D losing power, or damage to the warp core - just that there was a hull breach in engineering and Geordi and his people had to get out. The only visual cue we have of interior damage in BOBW is the pressure door dropping - that may have been the worst of it.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby edaw1982 » 2012-01-11 02:47am

I'm partial to the Excelsior. Sure she's not a tough little bulldog like the Defiant, but she's got good lines like you'd expect of a 'Aubrey in Space' like TOS. And she's (as the list indicates) the workhorse of the fleet.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby andrewgpaul » 2012-01-11 03:47pm

I voted the Miranda, although the art deco Federation designs from the movies are all rather spiffy.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Alyeska » 2012-01-11 06:42pm

"All Good Things" has a nice comparison on Galaxy warp cores. Brand new Enterprise, 7 year old enterprise, and 25 year old Enterprise. Each ship suffered a warp core breach due to the stress of what they were attempting. The brand new Enterprise breached first. The 7 year old Enterprise breached second. 25 year old breached third. The design was clearly upgraded and modified with time. By the time Deep Space Nine comes around we see Galaxy class ships taking serious damage in prolonged battles and surviving.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-01-11 08:21pm

:shock: :shock:

Wow...that is a lot of posts since the last time I checked...to add to the discussion though...I can agree that the 'Exploding Warp Core Syndrome' thing was probably because of the newness of the design. That being said, the Galaxy did start working better later on, like in the Dominion War, when the refit-Galaxy's were the toughest ships out there. I will say this though (and on topic), I have never liked the design from a looks point, namely since the ship looks so top-heavy. Then again, I am partial to the TOS ships so I may be biased :) .
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby edaw1982 » 2012-01-11 11:34pm

The explody warp core was a bit of a brain-bug that unfortunately got accepted like 'Worf-is-a-sad-sack-who-has-overinflated-opinions-on-how-cool-Klingons-really-are' or 'Worf is a Baddass Klingon who keeps getting his arse kicked'.

It was probably funny the first time, like Harry Kim getting dumped on the first time, because he's a prettyboy Nub Ensign...then as it started becoming status Qu; as Worf became the Universe's punching bag, Harry Kim became the universe's buttmonkey....and Warp Cores explode if you sneeze funny.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2012-01-12 08:39am

If you want a really cynical viewpoint: Galaxy class warp cores started working properly when the writers no longer needed to come up with forced drama on the ships.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby edaw1982 » 2012-01-12 09:16am

Eternal_Freedom wrote:If you want a really cynical viewpoint: Galaxy class warp cores started working properly when the writers no longer needed to come up with forced drama on the ships.


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Touché
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby edaw1982 » 2012-01-12 09:17am

Even though I voted on the Excelsior, I will admit the Connie refit is a nice looking ship. Very swan-like.
But the Excelsior class just has a meatier look to her. Like she can take more of a licking and keep on ticking.
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Re: Your favorite ST Starship design

Postby Terralthra » 2012-01-13 03:52am

I agree that I never particularly liked the Galaxy-class design. Way too top/front heavy. The saucer dwarfed the engineering hull and made it look clunky and underpowered. Sovereign was a much better take on the new flagship design.


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