An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Molyneux »

The Dark wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:On a related note to Skylon, I watched "Yesterday's Enterprise" last night, and according to the text commentary "cetacean ops" was apparently the idea they might have cetacean crewmembers like evolved dolphins on a water-filled deck. Seemed kinda silly though.
The "cetacean ops" was on the alternate universe vessel. However, according to the (non-canon) TNGTM, there were dolphins aboard as navigational specialists. Presumably either uplifted (as you said) or an analogous sapient species nicknamed dolphins by humanity. According to dialog in "The Perfect Mate," Geordi showed some dolphins aboard the Ent-D to a visitor to the ship.
Not sure where the canon status stands, but I do definitely recall references to intelligent (artificially uplifted) cetaceans in quite a few Star Trek books - mostly, their stations consisted of communications equipment and the controls for a set of waldoes, and a large fishtank. Silly, but not in a bad way.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Uraniun235 »

The Enterprise-D has dolphins. In TNG The Perfect Mate, Geordi offers to show someone the dolphin tanks. The only way the dolphin tanks aren't there is if Geordi is blitzed out of his mind on drugs.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Baffalo »

Uraniun235 wrote:The Enterprise-D has dolphins. In TNG The Perfect Mate, Geordi offers to show someone the dolphin tanks. The only way the dolphin tanks aren't there is if Geordi is blitzed out of his mind on drugs.
I'd pay to see Geordi on screen on a drug trip.

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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Ted C »

Uraniun235 wrote:The Enterprise-D has dolphins. In TNG The Perfect Mate, Geordi offers to show someone the dolphin tanks.
I recall a TNG novel ("Dark Mirror", I think) that had a dolphinoid navigator visiting the ship. He was considered particularly good at it because he was, by nature, comfortable navigating in a 3D environment.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Uraniun235 »

Yeah, that's the whole idea behind having the dolphins (and a small whale or two, I think) on board, they're supposedly really good at 3D navigation.
Baffalo wrote:I'd pay to see Geordi on screen on a drug trip.

"Engineering, status report."
Pretty sure they did a mellower take on this in Galaxy Quest.


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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

i don't think the engneer was stoned in that one, he just was completely oblivious to all the random shit going on
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Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Uraniun235 »

I remember reading that, although it got toned down in the editing, Tony Shalhoub's character was intended to be a pothead.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Molyneux »

Uraniun235 wrote:I remember reading that, although it got toned down in the editing, Tony Shalhoub's character was intended to be a pothead.
Last I heard, there was actually a deleted scene just before Tony Shalhoub's character and "Rocky" got beamed up where they got a wee bit high; it would go to explain a lot of their behavior.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Baffalo »

How did we go from talking about families aboard a starship to talking about dolphins to talking about drug trips. Seriously, if there was a point, we missed it a few lightyears back >.>
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Families to dolphins is easy:

Someone commented that the alt-E-D was a warship, with al the science bits cleaned out, except for "Cetecean Ops"
I then pointed out that according to the commentary, Cetecean Ops refers to having , well, intelligent fish aboard as navigators.

From dolphins to drugs is also easy: Uraniun 235 commented that Geordi offers to show someone the dolphin tanks in "The Perfect Mate" and that the only way there can't be dolphins is if Geordi was stoned when he said that. Then someone said Geordi stoned would be hilarious, then someone pointed out the engineer from Galaxy Quest

It's not that hard to figure out. But it is interesting to see how the thread weaves back and forth
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by TheHammer »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:No it doesn't, because the E-D of that timeline was destroyed, holding off the Klingons long enough to let the E-C escape back to the past

EDIT; So even if Picard evac'ed the civvies to the E-D, they die anyway, BEFORE the timeline reverts to what it was
The TNG episode "Parallels" showed pretty conclusively that paradoxes do not exist in Star Trek, rather there are multiple parallel timelines in existence at any given moment. Timelines don't revert, rather they shift to other alternate realities.

As for the "Yesterday's Enterpriseverse" I don't know that you can conclusively say the E-D in that timeline was destroyed. For all we know, Picard pulled "The Picard Maneuver II" and saved the day, albeit down a few crew members.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Stofsk »

TheHammer wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:No it doesn't, because the E-D of that timeline was destroyed, holding off the Klingons long enough to let the E-C escape back to the past

EDIT; So even if Picard evac'ed the civvies to the E-D, they die anyway, BEFORE the timeline reverts to what it was
The TNG episode "Parallels" showed pretty conclusively that paradoxes do not exist in Star Trek, rather there are multiple parallel timelines in existence at any given moment. Timelines don't revert, rather they shift to other alternate realities.

As for the "Yesterday's Enterpriseverse" I don't know that you can conclusively say the E-D in that timeline was destroyed. For all we know, Picard pulled "The Picard Maneuver II" and saved the day, albeit down a few crew members.
Come on - the crew were dead or dying, the ship was on fire, Geordi said something about how the engines are fucked. It's obvious the Enterprise was going down at the end.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I'd swear we actually see it explode.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Stofsk »

We don't, but it's well on the way. Geordi said the engines were fucked and a warp core breach was imminent and that he couldn't fix it.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Uraniun235 »

The ship was a burning wreck (the bridge was literally on fire in the last few seconds we see alternate-Picard), the main phasers were down, pretty sure the shields were down, there were still two Klingon battlecruisers hammering it, the reactor's coolant system was failing, I think Geordi mentioned something about antimatter containment wavering, and if the bridge was any indication, most of the crew were dead as well. (Unfilmed were Data and Wesley being killed as well.) Picard wasn't wizarding his way out of anything, he was going down with the ship.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

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Uraniun235 wrote:The ship was a burning wreck (the bridge was literally on fire in the last few seconds we see alternate-Picard), the main phasers were down, pretty sure the shields were down, there were still two Klingon battlecruisers hammering it, the reactor's coolant system was failing, I think Geordi mentioned something about antimatter containment wavering, and if the bridge was any indication, most of the crew were dead as well. (Unfilmed were Data and Wesley being killed as well.) Picard wasn't wizarding his way out of anything, he was going down with the ship.
If I had a nickel for everytime the warp core was about to breach on TNG and they still somehow survived I'd have enough for a large cup of coffee. As for the Klingon "battelcruisers" and I use that in quotes since they were clearly birds of prey, Quite frankly, one was rather easily destroyed. If Picard managed to destroy a second cruiser, the third might be inclined to retreat or at least still be damaged enough that the Enterprise has a fighting chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFdEL0G4mY

The Writers could have shown the Ent-D of that time line destroyed but they did not. The only "confirmed killed" member of the crew was Wriker. The final external shot of the ship showed the shields were still holding to a degree, and she appeared largely intact. The point I'm getting at, is if someone wanted to write a story where the Enterprise itself was heavily damaged, but somehow won via a lucky shot, intervention of a third party (a surprise Federation ship, alien of the week, Q etc) or what have you, then you could do so and it wouldn't contradict the episode.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Uraniun235 »

I was about to put effort into another post, but then I realized I could just shove yours right down your throat:
If I had a nickel for everytime the warp core was about to breach on TNG and they still somehow survived I'd have enough for a large cup of coffee.
Go on, then. List the number of times the Enterprise-D averted an imminent warp core breach. I'll even include a link to the Memory Alpha episode list for your convenience:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek: ... isode_list

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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by TheHammer »

Uraniun235 wrote:I was about to put effort into another post, but then I realized I could just shove yours right down your throat:
If I had a nickel for everytime the warp core was about to breach on TNG and they still somehow survived I'd have enough for a large cup of coffee.
Go on, then. List the number of times the Enterprise-D averted an imminent warp core breach. I'll even include a link to the Memory Alpha episode list for your convenience:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek: ... isode_list

Let's find out how much a large cup of coffee costs where you live. Image
Coffee is complimentary in many places :). I was clearly being facetious with that line.The point I was trying to make is that we don't see the Enterprise destroyed, and we have seen many instances where things "looked bad" and they've averted danger at the last moment. All it takes is for Geordi to say "Captain I've managed to avert the core breach by shunting excess energy from the flux capaciter into the stabilization matrix". And again, I'm being facetious with that line so don't ask me to quote an episode where Doc and Marty give flux capaciter technology to Geordi.

Just to be clear, I'm not guaranteeing the Enterprise survived. Not even saying its likely. But since we don't see it destroyed on screen, any number of scenarios such as the few I mentioned could have occured that are reasonable within the bounds of Star Trek.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by seanrobertson »

No one addressed this yet, in case the thread's in full necro-mode :)
Kythnos wrote: In my opinion the Galaxy Class ships are not Battleships, have have a few weapons yes but are in no way made for warfare. I think a better analogy would be a Coast Guard ship. They are armed and armored but only to a point, much more useful in policing actions. When you consider the other jobs the Enterprise did this becomes more visible, and yet they still can fight in a war if they have to. Although this might be more a product of the tech limitations than design.
Actually, all indications are that Galaxy-class ships were Starfleet's top battleships in the 2360s -- and probably well past the Dominion War years, since we saw lots of GCSs leading fleet formations.

In the Federation-Klingon war in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Picard specifically refers to the Enterprise as a "battleship." When the crew was deprived of their memories but could access everything but the crew manifest, Worf and the alien infiltrator determined that the Enterprise was a "battleship."

One might be tempted to dismiss the former as a alternate timeline and, thus, a red herring; further, one might also dismiss Worf and the alien's dialogue, since we don't know for sure that they were actually weighing the E-D against the entirety of Starfleet.

Ultimately, however, it's a moot point: when Picard was assimilated in "Best of Both Worlds," the Borg specifically said he commanded the "strongest ship in the Federation fleet," which is why they chose him to "speak for his people." Numerous Federation outposts and at least one Starfleet ship had been assimilated prior to that point (to say nothing of the Borg fucking about with the Enterprise's computer in "Q Who?"), so I'd say their declaration's truthful.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Batman »

I think the Galaxy being the closest thing they had to a battleship at the time has been well established. :D He does have a point about it not being a proper warship, which I think has also been well established :D
But for it being a Coast Guard ship-no? As I said, at the time, it was the closest Starfleet had to a warship, but if this is Coast Guard level of armament (both offensive and defensive), great Valen what do you expect from a real fighting ship? :wtf:
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by seanrobertson »

Batman wrote:I think the Galaxy being the closest thing they had to a battleship at the time has been well established. :D He does have a point about it not being a proper warship, which I think has also been well established :D
But for it being a Coast Guard ship-no? As I said, at the time, it was the closest Starfleet had to a warship, but if this is Coast Guard level of armament (both offensive and defensive), great Valen what do you expect from a real fighting ship? :wtf:
No kidding :)

If someone else had already noted that the GCSs were their hitherto best take on a battleship, I apologize. I tried to read the thread carefully but I don't recall anyone saying as much.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Batman »

I honestly don't know if it's come up in this thread before. It's just that around here and by now, I (apparently mistakenly, for which I apologize) assume that a)the Big E being the closest they had to a battleship at the time and b) it not being a proper battleship (or any sort of proper warship, while we're at it) is taken for granted.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by seanrobertson »

Batman wrote:I honestly don't know if it's come up in this thread before. It's just that around here and by now, I (apparently mistakenly, for which I apologize) assume that a)the Big E being the closest they had to a battleship at the time and b) it not being a proper battleship (or any sort of proper warship, while we're at it) is taken for granted.
Bats,

Nah, that's probably all true. We're certainly on the same page.

I was partly thinking of, and really preemptively addressing, the old crowd which held that Nebulas and Akiras were tactically superior. You know, because those two apparently have something like 20+ torpedo launchers between them.

That's getting tangential; more than one ship class could serve as battleships, of course. I just wanted to underscore that the GCS was THE very best they had at the time, in spite of what the Nebkira wankers might claim. (I know there's some controversy over whether or not starship registries are strictly chronological, but I'm pretty sure the three or four known Akiras are in the 62000-63000 range. Meanwhile, the Galaxy herself is somewhere in the 70000s. As such, I think it's safe to say Galaxies are the newer class. Moreover, that would mean the Borg regard the E-D -- and by extension, GCSs in general -- as stronger than Akiras.)
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by TheHammer »

seanrobertson wrote:
Batman wrote:I honestly don't know if it's come up in this thread before. It's just that around here and by now, I (apparently mistakenly, for which I apologize) assume that a)the Big E being the closest they had to a battleship at the time and b) it not being a proper battleship (or any sort of proper warship, while we're at it) is taken for granted.
Bats,

Nah, that's probably all true. We're certainly on the same page.

I was partly thinking of, and really preemptively addressing, the old crowd which held that Nebulas and Akiras were tactically superior. You know, because those two apparently have something like 20+ torpedo launchers between them.

That's getting tangential; more than one ship class could serve as battleships, of course. I just wanted to underscore that the GCS was THE very best they had at the time, in spite of what the Nebkira wankers might claim. (I know there's some controversy over whether or not starship registries are strictly chronological, but I'm pretty sure the three or four known Akiras are in the 62000-63000 range. Meanwhile, the Galaxy herself is somewhere in the 70000s. As such, I think it's safe to say Galaxies are the newer class. Moreover, that would mean the Borg regard the E-D -- and by extension, GCSs in general -- as stronger than Akiras.)
I believe it was explicitly stated that the Defiant was the first dedicted warship of the federation in the TNG era. Supposedly this was due to the the idea that "starfleets mission is one of peace" that got shaken up by the Borg, and later the Dominion.

As for the registry numbers meaning one class was newer, I don't think that tells us anything at all. We've already seen starfleet re-use registry numbers. Besides that, in every day life you've got numbers that are used out of sequence despite something newer or better being out there, from graphics cards to processors, to TV models, to fighter jets. It could simply mean that the "70000's" range is used for a certain SIZE of ship rather than its generation, or perhaps its role in the fleet.

Given the sheer number of torpedo tubes on the Akira, it can't be anything other than a warship. And, as stated earlier the Defiant was the first dedicated warship, designed after the encounter with the borg, and thus after the Galaxy class.
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Re: An idea about Ambassador-class starships . . .

Post by Enigma »

Cracked came out with an article that fits the issue with families onboard Starfleet vessels. Hilarious even though wrong in some areas.
Star Trek has been around so long, and we take it so much for granted, that we don't really stop and think about how weird the Starship Enterprise is.

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Oh, hey, it's happy hour.

They seem to use it for everything: In one episode it's a warship, like the equivalent of a modern aircraft carrier. In another, it's acting more like a diplomatic vessel serving as an ambassador to alien races. But overall, they always talk about it first and foremost as an exploration vessel, more the equivalent of the old sailing ships that sat out to find the New World, knowing mortal danger may lurk over the horizon.

But the day-to-day atmosphere inside is more like that of a cruise ship. For instance, there are children on board.

You see them in the background of numerous episodes, and various plots involve them in one capacity or another. So ... why are they allowed on the ship? Anyone? Let's look at the ship's mission, which any even casual viewer knows by heart:

"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. It's continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before!"

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Bah! Nah Nah NAH! Nah Nah NAAAH!

Boldly going where no one has gone before -- meaning places full of unknown beings, diseases and environmental dangers we may not know how to deal with. And we brought our kids along.

Can you remember any time in history when human beings thought that was ever a good idea? Especially considering that this ship we are talking about is the freaking flagship of the Federation, an institution that already has way more enemies than you could shake a bat'leth at. The Enterprise gets attacked every other week.

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Not to mention the space pedophiles.

And the danger to the kids isn't hypothetical; in one episode, a bunch of kids get kidnapped by aliens. In another, a tour group of kids almost gets killed when the ship malfunctions.

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"Ah ... that, little Johnny, is a Romulan Bird-of-Prey. The green glow is the disruptor powering on."

There are other episodes where children get singled out and tormented by alien races, such as one where a little girl's imaginary friend turns out to be a homicidal being, or when a young boy's dead mother comes back to life as an alien, presumably studying how much you can traumatize a human child.

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Give Mommy a kiss!

And it's not even like the Enterprise is just the victim of bad luck here, like it's an innocent fishing boat continually getting surprise-attacked by pirates. No, they used this ship to attack the Borg, a race of half-robots with no emotion hell-bent on taking over the entire human race. With the children on board.

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Hey, it worked out pretty well for Seven of Nine.

What makes it even stranger: We can't think of an occasion where the crew has considered the safety of the children in any way when making decisions.

In the last TNG film, the new Enterprise is carrying a wedding party with it (cruise ship mode) when it is ordered to fly into enemy territory on a mission (battle ship mode). Long story short, this doesn't end well, and Captain Picard is left with a ship half blown open and finds himself face-to-face with the enemy's giant doomsday ship. His only choice is to ram the front of the Enterprise into the bad guy without any warning ... to anyone.

Now anybody (OK, maybe just nerds) can tell you what's at the front of the Enterprise -- it's a place called Ten Forward, a lounge where people go to socialize. But more importantly, according to previous episodes of the show it is also one of many emergency shelter locations in case of a deck evacuation within the ship ... something that had happened earlier in the battle. All of the men, women and children would have been huddled there.

And they use it as a goddamned battering ram.

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Mazel tov!

ASVS('97)/SDN('03)

"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons

ASSCRAVATS!
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