The morality of being a soldier

[Sokartawi]

Tell me, would you kill someone in self defense?

No.

Or would you simply let yourself die.

Yes.

Yet you refuse to have any respect for people who die to protect their comrades in combat, or to protect their friends or countries. Do you not see the contradiction inherent in your position?

If they just die I'll respect them for that (such as people that jump on a grenade), if they (try to) kill I will not.

[CJvR]

Tell me, would you kill someone in self defense?

No.

Or would you simply let yourself die.

Yes.

Perhaps she is Amish?

[Sokartawi]

That being said, it'd be nice to envision war between volunteer-only forces against only other volunteer-only forces. A sort of Command And Conquer-esque world where the best way to cripple the opposition would be to destroy their(Completely militarized, of course!) construction bays and then wear them down, soldier to soldier.

But even in C&C there are civvies in those buildings

[Master of Ossus]

If they just die I'll respect them for that (such as people that jump on a grenade), if they (try to) kill I will not.

In the other thread, though, you supported suicide bombers because they got rid of the Americans in Iraq. How do you reconcile these positions?

[Sokartawi]

If they just die I'll respect them for that (such as people that jump on a grenade), if they (try to) kill I will not.

In the other thread, though, you supported suicide bombers because they got rid of the Americans in Iraq. How do you reconcile these positions?

Because the Americans are the agressor in this conflict and if I have to pick sides in a conflict I usually pick the side of the defender. I don't think what the insurgents are doing is enlightened behavour, and I wouldn't do such a thing myself. However I perfectly understand why they are doing such a thing. And I still say coalition soldiers in Iraq deserve to die because they are interfering with another nation and are killing people there, but you could see that in a karmic-like perpective, since they are killing others, they are also deserving to be killed. Of course the same is true for the insurgents, however since there is a very unfair distribution of deaths, the coalition still deserves a lot more casualties.

[SirNitram]

That being said, it'd be nice to envision war between volunteer-only forces against only other volunteer-only forces. A sort of Command And Conquer-esque world where the best way to cripple the opposition would be to destroy their(Completely militarized, of course!) construction bays and then wear them down, soldier to soldier.

But even in C&C there are civvies in those buildings

The engineer is not a civilian. He has his mind-control ray of doom which lets him take over buildings by going in the front door.

[NecronLord]

Sokartawi, you do realise that this is a totally inconsistant position, right?

How can you claim that self defence is immoral and support Suicide Bombers?

[CJvR]

In the other thread, though, you supported suicide bombers because they got rid of the Americans in Iraq. How do you reconcile these positions?

Perhaps the US troops there are considered to be sub-human beasts as opposed to the civilized valiant A-Q & Saddamite freedom fighters, humanity's finest?

[NecronLord]

Perhaps the US troops there are considered to be sub-human beasts as opposed to the civilized valiant A-Q & Saddamite freedom fighters, humanity's finest?

Not all Iraqi insurgents are one of those two groups remember.

[Sokartawi]

Tell me, would you kill someone in self defense?

No.

Or would you simply let yourself die.

Yes.

Wow, so in addition to never taking responsibility for someone else, you will refuse to take responsibility for you own life, and simply allow someone to rape you, kill you, and then eat your body. WIthout resisting. Wow

Without resorting to killing this person yes. Doesn't mean I'm not considering to beat him up.

[CJvR]

however since there is a very unfair distribution of deaths, the coalition still deserves a lot more casualties.

Do you think war is some fucking game with scorecards or something?

[Sokartawi]

however since there is a very unfair distribution of deaths, the coalition still deserves a lot more casualties.

Do you think war is some fucking game with scorecards or something?

Your pitiful wars? No. Life? Perhaps.

[Master of Ossus]

Because the Americans are the agressor in this conflict and if I have to pick sides in a conflict I usually pick the side of the defender. I don't think what the insurgents are doing is enlightened behavour, and I wouldn't do such a thing myself. However I perfectly understand why they are doing such a thing. And I still say coalition soldiers in Iraq deserve to die because they are interfering with another nation and are killing people there,

Which of course explains why you support foreign insurgents in Iraq.

but you could see that in a karmic-like perpective, since they are killing others, they are also deserving to be killed. Of course the same is true for the insurgents, however since there is a very unfair distribution of deaths, the coalition still deserves a lot more casualties

In other words, they should die because they're all bad, but the Coalition forces should die more.

[Master of Ossus]

Your pitiful wars? No. Life? Perhaps.

Yes. Life is a game in which many people here are kicking your ass.

[CJvR]

Not all Iraqi insurgents are one of those two groups remember.

No, but they seem to be the most active at the moment after Sistani smacked down the Shia militants. There are probably some legitemate resistance groups but with the savages operating there they hardly get any press coverage.

[Sokartawi]

Because you have a choice to either defend yourself from a brutal sadistic serial killer, or allow yourself, an innocent person, to die a horrible painfull death. ANd of couse, one wouldnt want to get their hands dirty doing an evil thing like defending themselves now would we?

Especially if they were going to do it again to someone else, who was also innocent.

Because of curse, we arent responsible for the suffering of others, no matter how easy it would be to prevent. Because everyone is responsible for their actions, and only their actions. WIth no duty to defend ourselves, let alone anyone else.

Why would one have a DUTY to defend themselves in the first place? And to whom?

Here is an idea, how about we toss the entire sum of ethical discourse between human beings out the window and allow ourselves to be ruled by murderers and rapists!!!

That assumes the 'pascifists' or whatever you prefer to call them, are intimidated by the murderers and rapists and cooperate with them. Power's given, never taken I always say...

[Master of Ossus]

Why would one have a DUTY to defend themselves in the first place? And to whom?

To people who care about them, you fucking moron, and who would be hurt if harm were to come to them.

That assumes the 'pascifists' or whatever you prefer to call them, are intimidated by the murderers and rapists and cooperate with them. Power's given, never taken I always say...

Right, and power will ALWAYS LIE WITH THE MURDERERS AND RAPISTS, since the pacifists have no ability or concept of how to fight back.

[CJvR]

Your pitiful wars? No. Life? Perhaps.

My pitiful wars? The last war we fought in, IIRC, was the Napoleonic war.

[Sokartawi]

That being said, it'd be nice to envision war between volunteer-only forces against only other volunteer-only forces. A sort of Command And Conquer-esque world where the best way to cripple the opposition would be to destroy their(Completely militarized, of course!) construction bays and then wear them down, soldier to soldier.

But even in C&C there are civvies in those buildings

The engineer is not a civilian. He has his mind-control ray of doom which lets him take over buildings by going in the front door.

Not the engineer, those guys in bright shirts with a pistol which you get a couple of if you sell the thing.

[SirNitram]

But even in C&C there are civvies in those buildings

The engineer is not a civilian. He has his mind-control ray of doom which lets him take over buildings by going in the front door.

Not the engineer, those guys in bright shirts with a pistol which you get a couple of if you sell the thing.

They gladly run to their deaths. Clearly they are glorious volunteers of the Soviet Army.

[NecronLord]

Not the engineer, those guys in bright shirts with a pistol which you get a couple of if you sell the thing.

Those are called Starfleet Marines.

[CJvR]

Why would one have a DUTY to defend themselves in the first place? And to whom?

To people who care about them, you fucking moron, and who would be hurt if harm were to come to them.

Perhaps you have solved the mystery, no-one gives a damn if Sok lives or dies.

[Sokartawi]

Why would one have a DUTY to defend themselves in the first place? And to whom?

To people who care about them, you fucking moron, and who would be hurt if harm were to come to them.

You're not responsible for the hurt of the people that care about you since they made that choice to care about you themselves. You could've seen that one comming

That assumes the 'pascifists' or whatever you prefer to call them, are intimidated by the murderers and rapists and cooperate with them. Power's given, never taken I always say...

Right, and power will ALWAYS LIE WITH THE MURDERERS AND RAPISTS, since the pacifists have no ability or concept of how to fight back.

Pascifists fight back when they die since their death damages the society which the rapist/murderers parasite upon.

[CJvR]

Pascifists fight back when they die since their death damages the society which the rapist/murderers parasite upon.

Does anyone else think about the Black knight in Monte Python when you read this?

[DPDarkPrimus]

That assumes the 'pascifists' or whatever you prefer to call them, are intimidated by the murderers and rapists and cooperate with them. Power's given, never taken I always say...

Right, and power will ALWAYS LIE WITH THE MURDERERS AND RAPISTS, since the pacifists have no ability or concept of how to fight back.

Pascifists fight back when they die since their death damages the society which the rapist/murderers parasite upon.

You think dying is going to do jack shit for a violent criminal?

You're an even bigger moron than I had you pegged for, and that's quite an accomplishment.