Moderator: NecronLord
NecronLord wrote:The most attractive Eldar I can find {and the other picture of her looks worse} and still she looks cruel, not pretty.
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperi ... al600c.jpg
(Though admittedly she's more attractive than any Krork I've ever seen.)
But is that genetic? Coding something like obedience into the genome is really tricky. The pre-Fall Eldar weren't especially obedient, I think it's an artefact of the Path lifestyle.NecronLord wrote: To be specific, what I meant was that it would, were it genetic, mean that they would never question an order to eliminate any number of bystanders.
Random as far as the humans are concerned yeah, but that's pretty much a trademark of Eldar actions towards their own purposes. Not to mention that the pirates were the forerunners of the DE, so always the ones most hostile to humans.Well, certainly the cosairs in the gothic sector {Not DE} were known for piracy (unsurprisingly, given the name) and had quite the reputation for random meteing out of death.
But that's like saying that 'present-day' humans are stupid compared to Golden Age ones, when there are reasons for their problems.They're certainly not smarter. More emotional perhaps, but compare the rates of technological development. Certainly the Eldar Empire had some impressive stuff, but for 60+ million years, they've not got much to show for themselves, compare with the extent humans managed to develop to in the Golden Age of Technology, it's pretty appalling really.
Really? I always thought that they were smarter, in so far as it was ever mentioned. Granted part of that is experience from longevity. Physique isn't much of a way to compare sentient species anyway.They're more emotional, certainly, but not more intelligent, not by a long shot. Hell, their crowning achievement (the webway) was based on the work of the Old Ones/Ancient Slann too!
They're superior in that they're faster, yes. They're not however, stronger, more intelligent or resillient.
As you say it's subjective, I was more thinking of their aesthetic sense than their actual appearance anyway.Beauty is most certainly subjective, and personally, I don't find eldar attractive. The depictions of eldar almost certainly have slanted eyes, at an angle of about 20-35 degrees, making them look arrogant and cruel, not pretty.
The most attractive Eldar I can find {and the other picture of her looks worse} and still she looks cruel, not pretty.
(Though admittedly she's more attractive than any Krork I've ever seen.)
Again that's not a fair comparison, If their population hadn't crashed they might be getting more psychic as well.Their only major superiority is that they've got greater psycic potential than humans (for now, both chaos and the Emperor are certain that if given the chance {which seems to be less than 65,000,000 years I might add} humanity would far exceed the Eldar in that department too.)
Yeah, but I couldn't think of a better example. OTOH note that the humans who think of rabbits as pretty are ones who have no issues with them. Farmers, or pre-industrial societies are less tolerant. Similarly, If the pre-Fall Eldar had met primitive humans they'd probably have had no real problem with them.Incidentally, it's not rabbits, they tend to consider humans as vermin more than rabbits, who many humans at least consider to have astetic value.
Well, kudos to you for actually picking ratios, I really wasn't expecting that. Personally I'd say that the ratio between sentient species is either 1 : infinity or 1 : 1. depending on the situation. That's because I think an objective assessment is pretty impossible, never mind agreement on it, so Iwouldn't bother. In 40K most races put themselves at 1 : infinity vs everyone else, for sensible enough reasons.1 human, based on the criteria of intelligence, rationality and physical abilities, is worth more than one eldar. Though given the rarity of Eldar, perhaps they should be considered an endangered species in need of preservation, which would tip it slightly in their favour. Maybe 2-10 humans to 1 Eldar.
Krork physical abilities far exceed those of humans. Intelligence varies wildly, but the most rational and intelligent caste of the Krork is dead, {the brainboyz} Krorks are a valuable species in terms of the criteria above, but given the speed at which they reproduce, I'd pick one human over many Krork.
Imperfect justifications, perhaps, but I never claimed absoloute objectivity.
Dying.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Ok, I've now read everything I could about the Squats, and decided they're my favorite 40K race. What have they been up to lately in the face of the Tyranid problem?
Care to elaborate? They don't seem like the type to roll over for the genestealers.NecronLord wrote:Dying.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Ok, I've now read everything I could about the Squats, and decided they're my favorite 40K race. What have they been up to lately in the face of the Tyranid problem?
Sqauts = Teh Dedzor, it's that simple.
Not really. The Old Ones wrote their genes from scratch remember. They also created a strain of Krork who can create advanced technology without comprehending its function (Mekboyz) in anything more than the vaguest terms, which is rather more impressive.Shortie wrote: But is that genetic? Coding something like obedience into the genome is really tricky.
That tends to enhance conformity, yes.The pre-Fall Eldar weren't especially obedient, I think it's an artefact of the Path lifestyle.
Nah, these are something else, they're the outcasts of the craftworld system. DE are a different strain, perhaps even a subspecies.Random as far as the humans are concerned yeah, but that's pretty much a trademark of Eldar actions towards their own purposes. Not to mention that the pirates were the forerunners of the DE, so always the ones most hostile to humans.
We probably are. I'd be surprised if no groups of humans in the GAoT were genegeneered for enhanced intelligence.But that's like saying that 'present-day' humans are stupid compared to Golden Age ones, when there are reasons for their problems.
Wiser perhaps, but that's cultural. and as you say due to long lifespansReally? I always thought that they were smarter,
Not really, but I'm trying to cover everything, and it's nice and easy to judge that objectively *Pats mentions of such things*in so far as it was ever mentioned. Granted part of that is experience from longevity. Physique isn't much of a way to compare sentient species anyway.
There is no disputing taste.As you say it's subjective, I was more thinking of their aesthetic sense than their actual appearance anyway.
Perhaps, but last time their numbers were high, bang, chaos god. Before that, bang, Enslaver (See this month's WD) plague infests universe, wipes out almost all sentience. Something similar may happen when psyker humans are common enough,Again that's not a fair comparison, If their population hadn't crashed they might be getting more psychic as well.
It's likely they did meet the humans at some point.Yeah, but I couldn't think of a better example. OTOH note that the humans who think of rabbits as pretty are ones who have no issues with them. Farmers, or pre-industrial societies are less tolerant. Similarly, If the pre-Fall Eldar had met primitive humans they'd probably have had no real problem with them.
Indeed. I would doubtless do so also in their situation.Well, kudos to you for actually picking ratios, I really wasn't expecting that. Personally I'd say that the ratio between sentient species is either 1 : infinity or 1 : 1. depending on the situation. That's because I think an objective assessment is pretty impossible, never mind agreement on it, so Iwouldn't bother. In 40K most races put themselves at 1 : infinity vs everyone else, for sensible enough reasons.
Irellevant. There are no rules for squats, there are no rules coming for squats, and bowing to much pressure, GW officially said that 'the Tyranids ate them' as an in universe fate.CaptainChewbacca wrote: Care to elaborate? They don't seem like the type to roll over for the genestealers.
I gotta say I agree. I'd be playing the Squats if they had a codex.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why the crap don't they make rules for squats? Those guys were badass!
Because, from what i've gathered, they weren't too popular, they normally lost, and because of their below average movement speed you normally got entire armies of bike/tank mounted squats which robbed them of one of the quirks of the race. Having fast moving squats is like having a close combat orientated Tau army.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why the crap don't they make rules for squats? Those guys were badass!
), but certainly never enough for an army.
Well, if it's any consolation, apparently the Tyranid fleet that munched them wasn't a threat afterwards.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why the crap don't they make rules for squats? Those guys were badass!
I thought that was because the main driving force behind Squats was an influential member of GW. When that person left the whole reason for having squats disappeared and hence ::squish::CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why the crap don't they make rules for squats? Those guys were badass!
So they're getting rid of squats and creating a race exactly like them? They'd better just be the same-ole guys a bit wiser for the Tyrannids kicking their asses.SAMAS wrote:Although it should be noted that while the squats are gone, there are a lot of rumors building up that a new "Space Dwarf" race/army is in the works.
indeed. I think they'd make awesome tanks, as well as crafting other excellent weaponry.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Oh, and if you want to play squats, Arcanis, you can find some unofficial codicies on the net. You have to bend the rules because 40K never gave squats anything worthwhile. Don't you think these guys should have made badass tanks?
Yep, I think they're called the Demiurg this time.CaptainChewbacca wrote:So they're getting rid of squats and creating a race exactly like them? They'd better just be the same-ole guys a bit wiser for the Tyrannids kicking their asses.SAMAS wrote:Although it should be noted that while the squats are gone, there are a lot of rumors building up that a new "Space Dwarf" race/army is in the works.
Well, I don't know that much about 1st edition 40K - but Squat tanks IIRC were variants of the Imperial ones, and all named after Mesopotamian deities. (eg. their Rhino version was called the Ishkur, and they also had something called a Tiamat which was based upon a Land Raider)Oh, and if you want to play squats, Arcanis, you can find some unofficial codicies on the net. You have to bend the rules because 40K never gave squats anything worthwhile. Don't you think these guys should have made badass tanks?
New Kneusian sytle tanks to go with the mole motar skills, tanks that just pop the turret out and tehn bury themselves....CaptainChewbacca wrote:So they're getting rid of squats and creating a race exactly like them? They'd better just be the same-ole guys a bit wiser for the Tyrannids kicking their asses.SAMAS wrote:Although it should be noted that while the squats are gone, there are a lot of rumors building up that a new "Space Dwarf" race/army is in the works.
Oh, and if you want to play squats, Arcanis, you can find some unofficial codicies on the net. You have to bend the rules because 40K never gave squats anything worthwhile. Don't you think these guys should have made badass tanks?
Yeah, but the point is that they're not natually very conformist (you could argue that the surviviors of the Fall were the conformist ones, but still). And I'm still not sure if I prefer the subconcious blueprints or the new thing about subcioncious psychic tech.NecronLord wrote: Not really. The Old Ones wrote their genes from scratch remember. They also created a strain of Krork who can create advanced technology without comprehending its function (Mekboyz) in anything more than the vaguest terms, which is rather more impressive.
That tends to enhance conformity, yes.
Nowadays sure, but originally DE didn't exist. Equally, to the Imperium the difference between Eldar Pirates and a Craftworld fleet is really very fuzzy.Nah, these are something else, they're the outcasts of the craftworld system. DE are a different strain, perhaps even a subspecies.
Probably, but you had to get the tech to do that gengineering reliably, and given that they didn't last they can't have been the majority.We probably are. I'd be surprised if no groups of humans in the GAoT were genegeneered for enhanced intelligence.
Yeah, and the Fall wasn't all about psychic power, it's about what they were doing with it. Do you think humans would be more sensible, without the repression of the Imperium? Now that I think about it, the two different systems (Path vs Inquisition et al) are aimed at the exactly same goal, with a similar disregard for morality along the way.Perhaps, but last time their numbers were high, bang, chaos god. Before that, bang, Enslaver (See this month's WD) plague infests universe, wipes out almost all sentience. Something similar may happen when psyker humans are common enough,
Maybe so, and would you think they'd have viewed them so harshly? Granted the Golden Age humans say would have been more impressive, but so long as the Eldar were doing well they'd have less reasion to be intolerant.It's likely they did meet the humans at some point.
Right, so the only evidence for them being evil, as opposed to just generally unpleasant, is that one quote. May GW and all their proof-readers (what proof-readers?) be condemned to infernal tortures in the Warp for all eternity.Indeed. I would doubtless do so also in their situation.
Nah, these are something else, they're the outcasts of the craftworld system. DE are a different strain, perhaps even a subspecies
using unshielded Witch engines, kinda like having a reactor without a moderator.Yeah, and the Fall wasn't all about psychic power, it's about what they were doing with it.
