The Dark Knight (GODDAMN SPOILERS)

[hongi]

It didn't seem to me that Batman was surprised that it was Harvey Dent at the location and not Rachel. Also if the Joker lied, you'd expect Batman to bring that issue up later on when he and the Joker are talking to each other.

IMO Batman changed his mind and went after Dent, and Gordon agreed to switch off-camera.

But I could be wrong.

[Havok]

I'm pretty sure that it was the Joker lying. I know he talked about not having a plan, but he sure as hell had one throughout the whole movie. He needed Batman to save Dent, and for Dawes to die, so that he could prove that the best Gotham had to offer could break, just like he did. It is very Killing Joke, just with Dent and not Gordon. He also knew, and we did as well from the scene in the interrogation room when he is getting his ass kicked by Batman and fucking with him about loving Rachel, that Bats would go after Rachel and not Dent, so he had to lie to get him to go there.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

That was the best movie I've seen all summer, possibly excepting Wall-E. I'm still amazed at the writing, and even stunned with the acting. Heath Ledger's Joker was a much more intense, frightening psychopath than Hannibal Lecter could ever hope to be, and his performance was much more visceral. Joker wasn't scary because other characters were scared of him-- he was scary because he was fucking scary. I don't think I've ever seen a portrayal of a serial killer that was so unnerving, where I truly believed that he could do anything vicious to anyone at any time. Much of that was the writing, but Ledger brought it to life with gusto. It was his movie.

There is no way I can ever take the Nicholson Joker seriously ever again.

Oh, yeah, and the whole Batman/Harvey Dent plotline was heartbreaking, too.

[Flagg]

It didn't seem to me that Batman was surprised that it was Harvey Dent at the location and not Rachel. Also if the Joker lied, you'd expect Batman to bring that issue up later on when he and the Joker are talking to each other.

IMO Batman changed his mind and went after Dent, and Gordon agreed to switch off-camera.

But I could be wrong.

You are wrong. 100%. The Joker flat out lied. He knew that Batman could get to either location in time to save the person trapped there, and he knew that Batman would go for Dawes. It was all part of his plan to destroy Dent and warp him into 2-Face. The reason it wasn't brought up later is simply because it was so fucking obvious that that is what happened it didn't need to be explained to the audience in further exposition.

[Darth Fanboy]

^ What he said.

What an amazing fucking movie. I haven't been to a movie twice in theatres in over ten years, and I think now is the time to end that.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Another scenario is just as good from The Joker's point of view; if Batman went for Dent and saved Rachel, Bats would have had to watch Gotham lose one of its best hopes for the future. And the Joker's other distractions left the Hospital unguarded, so in an alternate Rachel survives world, Joker has a good shot at reaching her and further demoralizing Batman by killing/maiming or whatever he feels like doing, just like he managed to reach Dent in the scenario that actually played out.

I'm guessing his ultimate goal wasn't Dent, but Batman, he was hoping the SWAT team would kill the disguised hostages, take huge casualties from the doctors posing as hostages, and then Batman cracks and kills Joker. The way it actually played out Joker seemed a little disappointed to be alive.

[Superman]

The Joker definitely lied. He's a psychotic loon, but he's also extremely manipulative. Look at what he did to get out of the police station; teasing the cop to the point of getting beaten and putting the phone in that asylum patient's stomach was pretty good evidence that he could indeed plan ahead. His argument about "chasing cars" made perfect sense though, and it was so damn convincing that it managed to work on Harvey.

Anyway, holy freakin' shit, that was a movie. This was definitely the only 2+ hour movie where I didn't get bored enough to think about leaving early. Usually I hate long movies, even good ones, but not this time. The story was well written, the acting was as good as it gets, and the visuals were downright amazing. Nolan is the fucking man.

This was hands down the best Joker to date. He was quite possibly one of the most evil villains I've ever seen... like Freddy Krueger evil. I really liked the way he didn't give a shit whether he lived or died, he just wanted to blow things up. That Joker really made me a Heath Ledger fan. What a tragic loss for Hollywood.

[Superman]

By the way, I'm declaring this the best comic movie ever.

So there.

[hongi]

It didn't seem to me that Batman was surprised that it was Harvey Dent at the location and not Rachel. Also if the Joker lied, you'd expect Batman to bring that issue up later on when he and the Joker are talking to each other.

IMO Batman changed his mind and went after Dent, and Gordon agreed to switch off-camera.

But I could be wrong.

You are wrong. 100%. The Joker flat out lied. He knew that Batman could get to either location in time to save the person trapped there, and he knew that Batman would go for Dawes. It was all part of his plan to destroy Dent and warp him into 2-Face. The reason it wasn't brought up later is simply because it was so fucking obvious that that is what happened it didn't need to be explained to the audience in further exposition.

It's all good man, that just makes the Joker even more fucked up.

[Superman]

It's all good man, that just makes the Joker even more fucked up.

Hell yeah.

Just noticed this on Yahoo.

Keep in mind this is just from the first Friday morning midnight show.

Midnight stampede to 'The Dark Knight' sets record debut record with $18.5 million

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Nothing dark about Batman's first night at the box office.

"The Dark Knight" lit up cash registers during its midnight debut, stealing away with a record $18.5 million from 3,040 theaters, distributor Warner Bros. said Friday.

That bested the 2005 performance of "Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith," which took in $16.9 million during its midnight debut in 2,915 venues.

"The Dark Knight" figure did not include any of its 3 a.m. or 6 a.m. showings.

And while Batman only strikes at night, all indications are that "The Dark Knight" will keep landing blows: Advance ticket sales were booming.

The early numbers mean "The Dark Knight" will likely join the ranks of 10 other films that debuted on non-holiday weekends and cleared more than $100 million from Friday to Sunday, said Paul Dergarabedian, president of tracking firm Media By Numbers LLC.

"There is an unbelievable demand for this movie," he said. "The Heath Ledger factor is a major part of this. Beyond that, the movie is so good, it's worthy of all these accolades."

The movie directed by Christopher Nolan and starring Christian Bale as Batman cost $185 million to make, excluding money spent marketing, said Dan Fellman, Warner's head of distribution.

Critics have heaped praise on the movie -- especially the late Heath Ledger's turn as the Joker, which has already generated whispers of a posthumous Oscar nomination.

"We're very proud of the film," Fellman said. "It's the magic of the movie business, how one film just stands out above the others."

[Stark]

Excellent movie. It tapers off in the final third to my mind, but eight million times better than Batman Begins. A comicbook movie with themes?? NO WAY.

[Flagg]

Excellent movie. It tapers off in the final third to my mind, but eight million times better than Batman Begins. A comicbook movie with themes?? NO WAY.

The greatest compliment I think I can give it is that it felt nothing like a comic book movie and I never had to try and justify something incredibly dumb or illogical by saying to myself "Well, it's just a comic book movie".

[ray245]

You know...this version of batman CAN be VERY frightening to criminals...because they will all think batman is WILLINGLY to kill, without breaking batman's 'no kill' rule.

[Schuyler Colfax]

Estimates say that this movie made $66 million on Friday alone.

[Havok]

OK, now that Stark gave his blessing , does this movie get close to Titanic? Does it crack the top three? Top five?

Also, I have to say that this movie has by far been the best of the summer and probably the year. WALL-E and Iron Man going second and third respectively.

[RogueIce]

I'm pretty sure that it was the Joker lying. I know he talked about not having a plan, but he sure as hell had one throughout the whole movie. He needed Batman to save Dent, and for Dawes to die, so that he could prove that the best Gotham had to offer could break, just like he did. It is very Killing Joke, just with Dent and not Gordon. He also knew, and we did as well from the scene in the interrogation room when he is getting his ass kicked by Batman and fucking with him about loving Rachel, that Bats would go after Rachel and not Dent, so he had to lie to get him to go there.

Plus he wouldn't want Dent dead: that would simply make him a marytr. It would certainly shake things up, but not as bad as having Dent fall. Hence why at the end they covered up what Dent did and placed it on Batman, so he could die with his integrity (so far as Gotham knew, anyway) intact.

The Joker knew Batman had a soft spot for Rachel, hence his switching it up to get Batman to save Dent. Had the Joker not been aware of that for whatever reason, I'm guessing he might have told it straight. As it is, that is a bit of a mindfuck to Batman in the bargain.

Although one way to confirm it is that I know Two Face told Gordon the address to go to at the end, so did it match with where Joker said Harvey Dent was?

As to the movie itself, it was damned good and Ledger made the Joker; Nicholson just doesn't compare. It's a damn shame he did though, as there's simply no way to recast the Joker, not for another decade or so anyway.

I do have one quibble: Gordon said Two Face killed five people at the end, including two cops. Now I know he killed the cop at the bar, and maybe that bartender, and then he killed Sal and his driver, so that's four. But he let Ramirez live because she got the good Heads and he ran away, right? Who's his fifth victim and second cop then?

[Anguirus]

^ Only explanation I can think of is that he belted Ramirez pretty hard and she didn't get up...

Or, Gordon could simply be mistaken about the number of victims.

[Havok]

^ Only explanation I can think of is that he belted Ramirez pretty hard and she didn't get up...

Or, Gordon could simply be mistaken about the number of victims.

They may be blaming him for the two cops that were guarding him, not realizing Joker killed them. So that is two cops, Maroni and the driver and the dirty cop in the bar.

[Pulp Hero]

You know...this version of batman CAN be VERY frightening to criminals...because they will all think batman is WILLINGLY to kill, without breaking batman's 'no kill' rule.

Yes, I thought that too, it gives Batman more "street-cred", I liked that being a hated man for the sake of Gotham was Batman's choice rather than killing the joker, which is what I assumed from the trailers.

For the bombs on the boats, I liked the scene, however-

-No one on the boat with the NG on it thought to maybe cut the receiver wire on the bombs? Not an ideal choice against a madman's bomb, but it was a tight situation.

-The CPT actually put the choice to a vote. Even an NG CPT wouldn't do that!

-No one brought up the fact that police and crew were on the boat along with convicts.

-I would have liked to see a button pushed, just to see if it was a headfuck, I was guessing that someone would push it and blow up their own boat.

[Aratech]

You know...this version of batman CAN be VERY frightening to criminals...because they will all think batman is WILLINGLY to kill, without breaking batman's 'no kill' rule.

Yes, I thought that too, it gives Batman more "street-cred", I liked that being a hated man for the sake of Gotham was Batman's choice rather than killing the joker, which is what I assumed from the trailers.

For the bombs on the boats, I liked the scene, however-

-No one on the boat with the NG on it thought to maybe cut the receiver wire on the bombs? Not an ideal choice against a madman's bomb, but it was a tight situation.

-The CPT actually put the choice to a vote. Even an NG CPT wouldn't do that!

-No one brought up the fact that police and crew were on the boat along with convicts.

-I would have liked to see a button pushed, just to see if it was a headfuck, I was guessing that someone would push it and blow up their own boat.

I was rather surprised by what that one convict did, throwing the detonator out the window like that.

Now, I'm not overly familiar with Batman comic book lore/mythos, but was that actually supposed to be a character?

[Mlenk]

I actually didn't expect them to kill off Harvey.

I really, really doubt he's dead. They faked his death to preserve his image and shoved him in Arkham.

That's if there is a Nolanverse sequel, which I'm not sure I'd count on.

I think I read somewhere that Bale is contracted to do one more Batman movie. Whether or not Nolan is contracted to do one more, I don't know.

But anyways, thinking about it, that ledge that Batman and Dent fell off of at the end didn't look too high, if I remember correctly. I know Batman has his armor and everything, but it could be plausible that Dent might have also survived that fall, albeit badly injured. Sort of like that guy that Batman dropped off that roof while he was interrogating him. Who knows.

[Mr. T]

Best movie of 2008 thus far.

This is one of the few movies I've eagerly anticipated, ever since I first saw the trailer for it during the preview of Iron Man. I went in to this movie with very high expectations and they were easily met, which was no small task. Amazing visuals, terrific acting, an energetic, fast paced action packed plot, what more could you ask of a summer movie?

The villains are what make or break a Batman story. This movie they don't dissapoint. The Joker's always been my favourite Batman villain, The complete opposite to Batman's calculating, stern, serious demeanour. To the Joker everythings a game and all bets are off as to what he'll do next. He's the agent of chaos yet has a plan for everything.

Ledger's performance I'd call the definitive Joker, or at least he gives Mark Hamill's Joker in the animated series a run for its money (I never really got in to Nicholson's version). It's been said too much already, but Ledger has such incredible on screen presence, there's never a "dull" scene with The Joker. He's creepy and terrifying and funny in a very twisted sort of way. What they really nailed with the character is how to reconcile The Joker with the tone of the movie. This Joker isn't doing ridiculous things to get laughter from the audience, instead the kind of laughter the Joker provokes is largely nervous laughter from thinking Holy shit, this guy is fucking NUTS.

Eckhart did a great job as well as Two-Face. His transformation was handled really well and I loved the facial appearence they went for as opposed to the Tommy Lee Jones version. I'm hopeful that he'll be in the next movie as well.

Overall the movie was well worth the price of admission. There were some loose ends already discussed in this thread that maybe could have been tied up better, but none interfere with the viewing experience. The one criticism I can think of off-hand is Bale's grovelly Batman voice. Batman's voice has always been pretty deep but in this Batman they really overdo it.

[Surlethe]

This was an excellent movie. The Joker was brilliant, Dawes was hot, Dent's transformation was fascinating, and Batman held it all together. In particular, I loved the Joker; his persona seized the movie and held it in a death grip, his psychopathy was terrifying, his compulsive lying and constant scheming manipulation were fascinating. His terrorism seemed to simply be social and game-theory experiments on a vast scale with terrifying consequences: Gotham was his ant hill and he was little kid, poking it with his stick.

Edit: Seeing the Pirates thread a little way down the forum made me remember that last night I was comparing Captain Jack Sparrow with the Joker. Both are crazy, both are constantly scheming without actually seeming like it, both are brilliant, both are freaks and talk funny, etc.

[Flagg]

I actually didn't expect them to kill off Harvey.

I really, really doubt he's dead. They faked his death to preserve his image and shoved him in Arkham.

That's if there is a Nolanverse sequel, which I'm not sure I'd count on.

I think I read somewhere that Bale is contracted to do one more Batman movie. Whether or not Nolan is contracted to do one more, I don't know.

But anyways, thinking about it, that ledge that Batman and Dent fell off of at the end didn't look too high, if I remember correctly. I know Batman has his armor and everything, but it could be plausible that Dent might have also survived that fall, albeit badly injured. Sort of like that guy that Batman dropped off that roof while he was interrogating him. Who knows.

If he survived at all, then they are covering it up, considering the obvious memorial scene at the end. Anyway, any sequel plans should rightfully be ditched due to Ledgers death and the fact that the story really doesn't call for it like it did in 'Begins'. Though a third movie where Two-Face was taking the city hostage and demanding the death of Joker, who Batman would then have to protect would have been awesome. Without Ledger and the way they brilliantly ended Nolan's Batman storyline... No thanks.

[Flagg]

This was an excellent movie. The Joker was brilliant, Dawes was hot, Dent's transformation was fascinating, and Batman held it all together. In particular, I loved the Joker; his persona seized the movie and held it in a death grip, his psychopathy was terrifying, his compulsive lying and constant scheming manipulation were fascinating. His terrorism seemed to simply be social and game-theory experiments on a vast scale with terrifying consequences: Gotham was his ant hill and he was little kid, poking it with his stick.

Not to mention that he won. Despite the lack of the grandiose example he was going for when he took the ferries hostage (and I think we all know that if with side had used the detonator both ships would have blown) he managed to corrupt the only 3 incorruptible men in Gotham. Dent was driven insane, and Gordon and Batman were forced to sacrifice their integrity and lie to keep the myth of the incorruptible white knight Harvey Dent alive.