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Posted: 2007-11-07 02:19am
by Nephtys
Battlehymn Republic wrote:What were the 25 factions of BattleTech- were they all clans?
Five Successor States: Multi-system nations that fought each other at first using the first line weapons of the original 'Star League' that fell apart to civil war, then to more and more cobbled together trash as the first weapons became destroyed, infrastructure lost, etc in hundreds of years of infighting.

20 Clans, the 'beyond the rim' powers that didn't quite work together, and some invaded to reestablish the old Star League, but failed.

Some dozens of minor powers and bandit kingdoms on the fringes of space.

Posted: 2007-11-07 03:38am
by Covenant
I wanted to offer up something for debate:

We've talked about the Empire as quite religious, but what do they follow? I've had some issue thinking up something and nobody's really put anything out either--I did get an interesting reply from Neph though, and so I'll paraphrase it.

What if, like a true Facist state might, they didn't worship a God or Pantheon or Spirit as much as they worshipped all of these sorts of nebulous feelings in terms of Human Supremacy, and specifically, in the Supremacy of Earth over all other worlds. Kind of a worshipping of the Fatherland sort of thing.

That jived with an idea I was having--where their goal wasn't Heaven persay, but more like humanwide apotheosis to some greater form or greater understanding, something I was toying with before via my Sphere Cyborgs... but something which I could definately see applied to the Empire as a whole. It'd certainly give them a motivation to keep themselves pure of Aliens, and give themselves a fantastic reason to totally freak the hell out when Nitram's non-human humans showed up.

So, would a sort of Church of Man, with Earth as the virgin Mary, be closer to our warped religious Empire? No space pope, and the only Inquisition you'd have would be a sort of SS group that enforces devotion to Earth amongst the governors, populaces and military ranks. There could have been some attempt, via the Man-Machine Interfaces that we've made so widespread, to turn Earth and humanity into a single meta-organism, and that could have been part of why they had no issue with the borgifying of man.

I think it's a more unique religion than we've seen in a while. Space Nazis without Space Occult--and it's internally consistant with their motivations, and it has a theoretical end in mind, and no motivation to squelch science.

Posted: 2007-11-07 05:05am
by Spyder
"To the people of the Vanguard State

Allow me to extend my personal gratitude for all your hard work and sacrifice throughout the hardships we have endured.

Since our unfortunate exile during the final war, great trials have been laid before us and we have proven worthy not only our own survival but the continued survival of our principles, our values, our way of life.

I know many of you are tired from the constant struggle and are doubtlessly looking forward to the time where we are able to rest and allow the fruits of our labours to flourish into the safe and secure society that we have been tirelessly working to achieve. I have just recently been informed by the top minds of our State; that time is close at hand.

As we approach our goals, I feel it is important that we remind ourselves that we must be more than adequate; we must continue to excel in everything we do. Our people are natural leaders, after our exile in the early days of the war we were the first to cross the frontier. It was through our own initiative that we started steps towards restoring civilisation just as it was crumbling around us.

Now, it is my duty to inform you that one last trial has been presented to us. As many of you are aware, Terra, Earth, was destroyed in the final war. Our forces have spotted large concentrations of vessels heading outwards from their home system. Some of them may be approaching this region with the intention of resettlement.

While the notion of our former usurpers falling to the same fate we have may be of some amusement, I cannot stress this point enough; we were here first. The response to these new arrivals is still pending review but make no mistake, it is our duty to react objectively and decisively should we need to repel an incursion.

I have my absolutely faith that each and every one of you will do your part.

-Dr Julius Vance
Vanguard State Administration”

Posted: 2007-11-07 01:11pm
by Thirdfain
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What is Communo-Syndicalism?

Communo-Syndicalism is the ideology that all private property and business should be the property of Syndicalist bosses, demagogues who claim to represent the "working man." Syndicalists think that government and society should be torn down, to be replaced with a union of "elected" Syndicalist bosses who decide how to manage the entire nation! In a Syndicalist state, everything from the top to the bottom would be controlled by these "Syndicates" or "Unions." Everything from the workings of your home business to the administration of your hometown all the way up to the organization of the military would be organized along these lines- even you would belong to a "Syndicate," complete with a boss who claims to represent you at the higher levels- whether you like it or not!

Where Does Syndicalism Come From?

The first Syndicalists may have been real union men interested in the advancement of the people- but those days are long in the past. In countries like Nordkaldia, demagogues and revolutionaries saw in Syndicalism an ideology that could inflame the oppressed populace and propel them to positions of power. With the weakening of the Empire due to Xenos infiltration and political infighting, many people faced economic uncertainty, violence, and even starvation with the breakdown of legitimate Imperial and Provincial authority. Such an environment allowed the Syndicalist infection to grow, preying on people's fears and uncertainties. Only in such environments can Syndicalism flourish! Today, those nations which have already fallen to Syndicalism dream of an International Syndicate, where the bosses can control everyone, everywhere- a world where no-one is free. In the Union of Nordkaldian Syndicates, the Commune of Caliphon, and the Esperansic Social Republic, legitimate governments have been toppled by Syndicalist brutes. Spies, agents provacateurs, and propaganda emanate constantly from the Syndicalist International, seeking to destabilize legitimate governments and build doubt in the hearts of loyal citizens. These agents are especially common in our schools, where they prey on the young and inexperienced. They can also be found in the workplace, spreading lies and discontent against managers and local, loyal union leaders.

The Facts About Syndicalism:
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Is Syndicalism a Threat to Me?

YES! Syndicalism is not just an ideology- it is an empire. The Syndicalist International controls many planets and oppresses many people. Nations within the Nordkaldic Sphere are subject to an increasing measure of control from Kaldigrad itself. This sphere seeks to expand itself by any means necessary- either through revolution at the behest of foreign agents, or through the guns of the Union Militia Fleet! Would you see your hometown torn apart by rioting mobs, your local businesses closed by radical strikes, or worse- your nation invaded by Nordkaldic brutes? It has happened to others- in Caliphon, and Esperance, and a dozen other nations and worlds, Syndicalism has triumphed at the expense of human life and dignity. Fight this beast which preys on human fears!

How Can I Recognize a Syndicalist?

A Syndicalist can be anyone- your fellow student, your neighbor, your co-worker- even your local union boss or representitive! Keep an eye out for suspicious activity. Syndicalists love to create situations of social unrest by spreading discontent about working conditions. The strike is their favorite tool- it puts loyal workers out of work and creates shortages which Syndicalists can then point to as problems Syndicalism can fix- even when the strike was started by Syndicalists themselves! Syndicalists oppose solving problems through the official channels. Syndicalists emphasize hardships and play down the luxuries you enjoy as a citizen of this great nation. Syndicalism can go by many names: Keep an ear open around campus, workplace, or neighborhood for the words: Socialist, Communist, Anarcho-Syndicalist, Anarchist, Unionist, or Communo-Syndicalist.

What Can Be Done?

We CAN defeat this monster. Stand together with your leaders and community. Support the management of your local businesses, and only participate in loyal, sanctioned union activity. Avoid strikes, riots and other sources of Syndicalist unrest. Report those you suspect of Syndicalist sympathy to the authorities, to keep Nordkaldic spies out of our land. Above all:

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Posted: 2007-11-07 01:20pm
by Nephtys
We should move these flavor posts to a new thread. Someone make an 'IC Prologue' thread, perhaps?

Posted: 2007-11-07 03:47pm
by Covenant
Nah, we haven't gotten too many yet. I'd rather people post it here and realize that it's still a work in progress than elsewhere and believe it's offical! Eventually an 'IC Flavor and OOB Feedback' thread might be useful, but we haven't even decided on major aspects of the Empire's theme, so I can't imagine we're quite ready for that yet. Actually, I'll spend 10 minutes and write the fluff part of an Imperial Non-Remnant OOB and we can critique it. If everyone likes it then we can say "That's the Empire" and be done, and move onto other matters.

Posted: 2007-11-07 04:26pm
by Tanasinn
I know we've stated that cyborgization is something pretty well-accepted within the Empire (or are at least moving towards that), but how widespread is it in fact? Is it something limited mostly to representative upper/middle classes, with a 1984-esque underbelly of "all-natural" proles?

This is kinda important to the development of my little nation: a lot of their propaganda for expansion involves raising up the worthy poor out of the dregs the Empire left them to suffer in.

Posted: 2007-11-07 05:20pm
by Crossroads Inc.
Well my nation has grown so comfortable with Downloading ones self into a machine that being a "Computer" for a starship is seen as a Job position. Now then it is also a non perminant thing, and a person can be "Uploaded" into any number of machines and still be able to go back to thier body if they choose.

Posted: 2007-11-07 05:32pm
by Covenant
Tanasinn wrote:I know we've stated that cyborgization is something pretty well-accepted within the Empire (or are at least moving towards that), but how widespread is it in fact? Is it something limited mostly to representative upper/middle classes, with a 1984-esque underbelly of "all-natural" proles?

This is kinda important to the development of my little nation: a lot of their propaganda for expansion involves raising up the worthy poor out of the dregs the Empire left them to suffer in.
Your nation could be poor. Maybe your faction got started doing, like, something that got obsoleted by another company, and now makes it's money as a waste treatment factory town the size of a planet. If your biggest industry went under you might end up like a planetary Detroit. Some people will be rich and wealthy and there will be some good industries on your world, but it could be a very third-world sort of feel if your economy is depressed and the work you DO have available kinda sucks.

BTW, here's my unoffical, unsanctioned and utterly personally concoted Imperial OOB without the Ships. Let's see if we can get some feedback. If people hate this idea of the Empire, cools. If they don't, alright too. We're just slowly shaping it up, and if we can say "Looks good" then we can probably all figure out how we used to fit into it. Plus, we need this for the Remnant factions.

The Holy Solar Empire of Fortress Terra

(Unoffical, and Before the Fall)

Summary

A ‘water empire’ where security and resources are controlled solely by the authority of Earth, and the surrounding colonial civilizations submit to the central authority or are starved, sieged and eventually destroyed by weapons of immense power. Hail Terra!

Factions

Terra’s nations are considered factions, not totally autonomous nor is any idea of political and theological independence from the larger human family permitted. Self-sufficency is exceedingly rare among factions, as most are organized around a particular industry or ideology, much like a trade guild, and Earthlike planets are rare. The few blue gems in space have nearly unanimously been claimed by Earth as Imperial property. As a result, most faction must make do with worlds that are sorely lacking in several categories and trade for their other goods. The Empire is exceedingly strict about allowing a faction to branch out into multiple industries, and has particular interest in controlling the production of foodstuffs and heavy industry building materials. As mere individual expressions of Earth’s primacy, the outlying cultures have many responsibilities, including:

-Tithe some of your labors to Holy Sol.
-Follow the Holy Observances.
-Respect all Imperial Dictates and Laws.
-Maintain a regulated militia that meets Imperial guidelines.

In exchange, all member factions of the Solar Empire are provided with a well-organized trade network to allow their private industries to flourish and for their worlds to expand far beyond the original limitations of the worlds they settled on. They are also given the full might of Fortress Terra’s security, both against their rival factions and against the barbarians and alien nations that exist outside along borders of Imperial space. It would not take much more than a small barbarian raid with a few nuclear weapons for millions or billions of citizens to die, so the threat is very real indeed.


History

Fortress Terra arose from the combined stresses of a populace exploding on Earth and the dangers of outside attack. It was not until the first age of colonization had passed that Earth became Terra to the human race, and that Terra became Fortress Terra to the galaxy. As the first colonists began dreaming of separate, peaceful nations that would one day eclipse Earth, the nations of Terra were locked in a war against alien forces who feared Humanity’s spread.
Using great weapons developed in the gulf of time between when the first Generation ships left Earth and when they arrived at their destinations, a FTL-equipped Earth lashed out at the nonhuman aggressors. Colonies that had spent generations as small communities of independent thinkers landed on worlds to the open arms of Imperial Military police, whose FTL allowed them to arrive on these worlds first to set up defenses for the attacks they had already fended off.

Beholden already to the Empire for their safety in the face of such an out-of-context threat, the masses of Humanity fell under Imperial control, and swelled its power base. A cargo cult of Earth sprang up, nearly worshipping the immense power of those humans who had stayed behind, and who even now stood as sentinels against the alien and barbarian nemesis. But, as with everything, there was a cost.

Human primacy and the facist worship of the mother planet, and of humanity’s own destiny, did not allow the far-flung colonies their own nations. Earth would not protect and serve and not demand tribute, and as they would claim, all the colonies that had ever left were merely agents of Terra’s own will, scattered to the stars to feed her needs, not for the benefit of the colonists themselves. All good would flow from Earth to the colonies, but all goods would flow from the colonies to Earth. In control of trade, of military, and of ideology, the Empire ruled a productive if not happy millennia before situations would contrive its downfall.

Government

The Government of Holy Sol and Fortress Terra is a labyrinthine bureaucracy of checks and balances, but the regional Governors are under the direct watch of a Board of Oversight, allowing for territorial matters to be handled with efficiency and without unduly complicating Imperial matters as a whole. This causes a degree of corruption, as a faction of the Empire can at times offer more to a Governor than they can afford to pass up.

Counterbalancing this is the Inquest, a separate wing of the government concerning itself with policing the military and governmental lower echelons, and for handling matters of ideological discord amongst the colonies. Reporting to the Justice department, the Inquest monitors the Governors and the faction’s regional governments to insure that the primacy of Fortress Terra is assured. Believing that a tree rots from the roots, they also patrol the citizenry, but such a huge population is difficult to police, and employ massive data-mining operations instead of actual roving agents.

Religion

Holy Sol refers to the Sun, but what makes Sol of importance is the relation to Earth, the mother of humanity. Not simply the cradle of man, Earth is the protector, mentor, and soul of humanity. The Empire believes that the end of their own evolution as a species will lead to an interconnectedness of all things, and that humanity’s relationship with the Earth and all of it’s infinite variation will create a deification of mankind itself.
This has some basis in reality—humanity has so far been unbeaten by any alien force, even though they have had far less time to advance. Partly this is due to the unique nature of human biology and the advantages of the Sol system’s makeup, giving Earth a suitable arena to have grown and matured without the help of extra-solar assets. There are entire civilizations of aliens that were wiped out from orbit because their worlds contained no oil or coal, and they had stagnated in an agrarian age.

Faced with a seeming superiority, the idea of Apotheosis of Man drives humanity, as they believe that any other species capable of this will do the same, and the first to achieve such an interconnectedness will by definition become the God of the new age. If there is a god of any sort, they believe, surely it blesses man above all others to have given it such a blessing. And while the final result of this final evolution to a single creature of Humanity is unknown, it must be one step closer to the great destiny of their species.

Weaponry and Technology

The Empire has widespread use of advanced man-machine interfacing technology, long ago making the ‘first step’ towards an interconnected Human Engine by perfecting the ability for the human mind to interface with or even exist within an artificial construct. They also have exceedingly powerful technology across the board, from blazingly fast FTL capable of going millions of c to weapons of mass destruction that can tear apart entire star-systems, their advance has only been slowed by the abilities of their colonies to work together.

The majority of this technology, however, is expensive and requires galactic infrastructures to maintain, keeping it solely in military hands. Civilians have access to far less advanced vehicles and weaponry, rarely achieving more than ten thousand c or above megaton range in firepower. These militias are mighty the, but no match for the Empire, and this is by Imperial edict and not mere chance.

Posted: 2007-11-07 05:34pm
by Noble Ire
I'd like to start finalizing the flavor of my faction, but as far as I know, the timeframe is still up in the air.

Posted: 2007-11-07 05:49pm
by Covenant
Noble Ire wrote:I'd like to start finalizing the flavor of my faction, but as far as I know, the timeframe is still up in the air.
Is there a timeframe proposal you're in most favor of?

Posted: 2007-11-07 06:04pm
by Noble Ire
Covenant wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:I'd like to start finalizing the flavor of my faction, but as far as I know, the timeframe is still up in the air.
Is there a timeframe proposal you're in most favor of?
I would agree with the general consensus that 100 years is a bit too long, but I don't think that we should start immediately post-collapse, either. A starting point of perhaps 10 to 15 years out would make the most sense to me; the effects of the collapse are still sinking in and many people still remember the glory days of the Empire, but there has been time enough to solidify factions, cobble together armies, and even lay the foundations of these blood-feuds some people seem to be so fond of. How does that sound to everyone?

Posted: 2007-11-07 08:23pm
by Covenant
Noble Ire wrote:I would agree with the general consensus that 100 years is a bit too long, but I don't think that we should start immediately post-collapse, either. A starting point of perhaps 10 to 15 years out would make the most sense to me; the effects of the collapse are still sinking in and many people still remember the glory days of the Empire, but there has been time enough to solidify factions, cobble together armies, and even lay the foundations of these blood-feuds some people seem to be so fond of. How does that sound to everyone?
Sounds good to me. I had this idea previously that seemed to be said without complaint:
How about we meet halfway--the civilizations have only just recently, very recently, begun to realize nobody is coming back for them. They've been hearing about a war for the last 10 years or so and have been living on starvation mode as Imperial assistance grows more and more scarce, and now it's been like a year since any shipments.
And then Terra gets blown up. Which would give us about 10-15 years to be on our own, essentially, so that we'd have a cobbled-together army and some variety of a border drawn up, but that we just heard now that Terra is gone--which is a "Death Star II and Emperor esplode" moment for our Empire, and things start going to shit fast.

Posted: 2007-11-07 08:44pm
by Crossroads Inc.
For the ships that we'ed have when things go down, How big would we have them? I worked out the following that seems resonable given the tech we hav avalible.

Frigate = 150 meters
Corvette = 200 meters
Destroyer = 500 meters
Cruiser = 800 meters
Battleship = 1500 meters
Dreadnaught = 2500 meters

Posted: 2007-11-07 08:54pm
by SirNitram
Works for me. The Ares, the biggest of my beatdown wagons, was going to be between 2000 and 3000 meters. And when I say beatdown wagon, I mean I will make sure this thing will break faces if I can manage it.

Posted: 2007-11-07 09:10pm
by Beowulf
Corvettes are conventionally considered to be smaller than a frigate. Also, it seems like the size increases too rapidly between cruiser and dreadnought. It could be because there should be more types of cruiser in there. Maybe divide into light and heavy cruisers, and make the heavy cruiser about 1100 meters?

Posted: 2007-11-07 09:53pm
by Crossroads Inc.
Well hey, everything is open to change at this point, I just htought it was a good "rough" outline. There can always be "Heavy Crusiers" at a szie between 800 and 1500., and naturally you can change size to whaterver. I htought it might be good to decid ahead of time a standard so when someone says "I have a 'X' class Cruiser, or battleship, or whatever, we have an idea of its size.

Posted: 2007-11-07 11:03pm
by Rogue 9
There are entire civilizations of aliens that were wiped out from orbit because their worlds contained no oil or coal, and they had stagnated in an agrarian age.
Doubtful. If the planet can sustain an agrarian economy and has had life long enough to evolve sapient species, then it almost has to have had enough fossilization to have developed coal and oil in some form, assuming of course carbon-based life.

Posted: 2007-11-07 11:14pm
by Academia Nut
Unless of course said world had already seen an intelligent life form appear and then disappear, taking the supplies of hydrocarbon fossil fuels with them. Or if they had an extremely hardy or aggressive species of bacteria that managed to get into even the deepest reserves of oil and consume them, or if its highly geologically active such that nothing sits still long enough for hydrocarbon deposits to develop. Or...

Well, the point is that the argument has fewer holes than it might seem. Plus with FTL all humanity needs is say a millennia more advancement than anyone else in the area and they can completely fuck over every other species without even really trying.

But yeah, I like the fluff you created Covenant, and I agree that 10-15 years after the fall seems like the best compromise.

Oh, and again I ask, "How big and bad was the fight Nitram?" Cause the Empire described would have put up a fuck of a fight, and for you to have torn the throat out means that the only way you would be remotely equal with the rest of us is if you got mauled nearly as badly.

Posted: 2007-11-07 11:42pm
by SirNitram
The Enclave Expedition got hurt, and hurt bad. The few remaining combatworthy hulls are all paranoidly clustering around the Cityship(Which will be deployed to a planet before beginning of game, and henceforth be immobile), and the rest of the hulls are finding places to bed down and pretend to be rocks until their turn in the drydock comes up. Personnel losses will be light, but the vague outline you can get is: When the reinforcements arrive in around one or two centuries, the fleet will still be getting repaired, and that's assuming no hulls disabled from now until then.

The Enclave bled. But, ruthlessly professional and sensible that they are, they bled the enemy harder.

Posted: 2007-11-08 12:04am
by Covenant
Academia Nut wrote:Oh, and again I ask, "How big and bad was the fight Nitram?" Cause the Empire described would have put up a fuck of a fight, and for you to have torn the throat out means that the only way you would be remotely equal with the rest of us is if you got mauled nearly as badly.
The way I wrote also leads to a very easy conclusion that it is likely that Earth was, paradoxially, destroyed by itself. Perhaps to stop Nitram's forces from ever landing on it, they blew themselves up. Plus, a religion of the purity of human superiority based on their own survival and intelligence meeting an apparently equally intelligent human force may have absolutely blown their mind. And if they look like humans, that mean they came from Earth--but that they aren't from Earth now--or that they aren't humans but they look lke humans--or that... and so on.

I'm betting a combination of confusion about the nature of the enemy, paranoia about infiltration and the theological panic of having your core beliefs shaken, and the exceedingly large amount of ships Nitram's one Fleet was comprised of led to a perfect storm. Had the alien force been ugly, gibbering masses of tentacles, it could have gone the other way, since Nitram's forces are now quite badly damaged so it must have been close. Plus, since there are caches of Imperial weapons all over, and all of us are still around with OUR forces, they may have been so paralyzed by fear of being betrayed, tricked or infiltrated that they decided not to tap a draft, mobilize every asset, and call up their Militas as meatshields. Terra is indeed dusted, and the Empire is in shambles, but we're still comparitively very well armed.

Also if the Empire has put as much emphasis into planet and star dismantlement weapons as we've said they have, they may have been poorly matched against a foe without a planetary system to threaten, and thus, no way to exert pressure on their systems. It mighta' been like the Deathstar I versus it's equal weight in ISD's and SSD's. Not a fair match.

It reminds me of the fight between Andre the Giant and the Dread Pirate Roberts, where Andre said that he was losing because he hadn't fought against just one guy in a long time, and you've gotta use different tactics against one foe as opposed to a gang. Coulda' been the Empire was actually a more powerful foe than the Enclave, but it just couldn't fight effectively in it's own territory and got strangled at Earth. Maybe they finally gave up and used one of their bombs, and that's what took out Sol.

Posted: 2007-11-08 12:08am
by Academia Nut
Yeah, I see it as Nitram's guys penetrating all the way towards Terra and winning the battle, only to discover that their foes are not as rational and professional as they were and decided for a literal scorched Earth policy.

I can almost see a victorious Enclave fleet perched above Earth, celebrating victory and sending out orders for the surrender of the remaining defenders, only for the planet to suddenly turn into a ball of fire beneath them, gutting their fleet and forcing them to retreat in confusion and fear at the insanity of their foes that they would rather destroy themselves than face conquest at the hands of another.

Posted: 2007-11-08 12:19am
by SirNitram
Pretty much. The Enclave didn't want a fight, or even prepare for one. They expected firefights on the border, that's normal, but anticipated that there'd be a moment of 'Wait, we're..!' when the first visual contact was made. WHen it merely made the Terrans suicidally violent, the Enclave was thrown off key and reacted in a panic of their own, trying to stop them from employing systembusters to knock out the fleet along with billions of lives.

The Enclave, in their own way, are model soldiers. The problem is they are model soldiers. They are now in a position of having to hold territory without civilian oversight. Enclave worlds will be well-provided for but ultimately under despotic military rule. Protests will be common but largely nonviolent.

Posted: 2007-11-08 12:25am
by Academia Nut
I also get the idea from some of your fluff thread that they seem to have... an arrogant sort of attitude towards those not as soldierly than they. That those people who are not as disciplined and professional are a bunch of primitive screw-heads in need of re-education.

Oh, and have I mentioned that I think half the fun of playing a bunch of psychotic barbarians will be the reactions of "What the FUCK did they just do? And why does it seem to be working?" Or, well, hopefully that will be the response and not, "Wow... what an incredibly stupid move."

Posted: 2007-11-08 12:32am
by SirNitram
It's less soldiery and more the Roman idea of what the hell is wrong with these Celts. They see the Terran Empire as the ultimate in barbarism, and are rightly disgusted. There's a level of 'Stupid civilians', that's more pronounced because the diplomatic personnel were likely killed; the diplomatic vehicles aren't warship grade.