This Month's Darkstar Chortle

[Thanatos]

Ok, what the fuck does it matter if an arrow can penetrate their armor? I don't see any ST personnel with mass issued crossbows, unless they're hiding along with the rocket boot troopers in the warehouse of effective weapons? The only thing close is Klingon edged weapons but they're smoking crack if they think that's similar at all.

Hell, lets look at real life equivalent: Flak Jackets. Most knives relatively suck against them. Leatherneck magazine in their knife comparison issue (I'll have to look through my pile to find the) tested their penetration against a flak jacket. On a full power stab, only one managed to penetrate on the first blow and it was as close to a stiletto as knives come while being extremely sharp. The next best result was 2 stabs and the rest fell off from there.

Obviously an average sharpened arrow would easily penetrate on the first shot, and a slash against it would fail easily, both for obvious reasons I would hope I do have to go into.

These are proper combat\utility knives against a cuttable fabric. Stormtroopers are almost entirely covered by armor plates, including a full breastplate. That is not going to be cut easily. Even fan [urlhttp://www.gotarmor.net/pics/chest_elastic.jpg=]recreations[/url] are fairly thick and they're by nature going to be bare bones. Most modern combat knives are going to fail to penetrate the *recreations*, much less the "actual" thing. These are well designed, time tested weapons.

But we aren't dealing with effective weapons: edged weapons in Trek blow for the most part. Klingons cannot stab effectively with their primary weapon since there is no way to stab with it and its shit for effective slashing because of the double blades and the fact that they are backwards. A Klingon warrior is going to have to aim at the small exposed bits of body glove to have a prayer of his weapon actually doing anything. Even then, they're so shit that actually hitting those areas effectively is going to be almost impossible. All their weapons are going to be ineffective due to their "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT THEY ARE!" shit designs. The Klingons don't even have a proper hand axe, machete or proper one handed saber to work with.

Put a 19th Marine Officer or NCO into ST with a saber, a pistol and Stormtrooper armor sans helmet and they will go through a Klingon boarding party like Jedi Master Spock through a thesaurus.

[Thanatos]

Gah, screwed up when I changed it from an image to a link

*hangs head in shame*

[Elfdart]

One problem here might be culture shock. I've seen pictures of soldiers from conscript armies under totalitarian regimes where their helmets have cracks and even open holes in them. Old worn-out kit is really not that unusual in such an army, where the administration cares little about the life of any given soldier, even if the soldiers are generally equipped with protective gear (after all, you don't really give a shit if some of your soldiers die, but you don't want them to be vulnerable to mass death).

The American way of war in recent decades (which is the entire historical frame of reference for a typical young person) has been to treat each and every soldier's life as precious. This is extremely anomalous compared to world history; it is in fact almost freakish. So people who watch SW assume that every single stormtrooper's armour must be reasonably new, well maintained, and of the best quality available, based pretty much entirely on the fact that if this were the US Army, that's how they would ideally do it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that veteran troops often keep older or worn out gear until it is completely useless. The WW2 GIs who preferred helmets with holes or dents on the grounds that lightning doesn't strike the same place twice come to mind. Sometimes it's just a case of being sentimental over the trusty rifle, "lucky" cover, broken-in boots etc. Other times, people like wearing gear with battle scars on it as a sign of toughness.

[fusion]

One problem here might be culture shock. I've seen pictures of soldiers from conscript armies under totalitarian regimes where their helmets have cracks and even open holes in them. Old worn-out kit is really not that unusual in such an army, where the administration cares little about the life of any given soldier, even if the soldiers are generally equipped with protective gear (after all, you don't really give a shit if some of your soldiers die, but you don't want them to be vulnerable to mass death).

The American way of war in recent decades (which is the entire historical frame of reference for a typical young person) has been to treat each and every soldier's life as precious. This is extremely anomalous compared to world history; it is in fact almost freakish. So people who watch SW assume that every single stormtrooper's armour must be reasonably new, well maintained, and of the best quality available, based pretty much entirely on the fact that if this were the US Army, that's how they would ideally do it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that veteran troops often keep older or worn out gear until it is completely useless. The WW2 GIs who preferred helmets with holes or dents on the grounds that lightning doesn't strike the same place twice come to mind. Sometimes it's just a case of being sentimental over the trusty rifle, "lucky" cover, broken-in boots etc. Other times, people like wearing gear with battle scars on it as a sign of toughness.

But it is tough, it survived a bullet once, therefore it will survive a bullet another time!

Another thing, why does the armor cracking even matter in star trek as they rarely use projectile weapons?

Could that Darkstar be the most stubborn man in history?

[Darth Wong]

But it is tough, it survived a bullet once, therefore it will survive a bullet another time!

A lot of people believe that the Law of Averages is actually a physical law.

Another thing, why does the armor cracking even matter in star trek as they rarely use projectile weapons?

Presumably because they're trying to prove that stormtrooper armour is all so weak at all points around the body that it cracks easily; a hypothesis which would really fail quite badly at explaining why so many stormtroopers get clobbered with rocks without their armour cracking.

The shoulder armour is probably more vulnerable to blunt-force impacts than the breastplate anyway; modern US soldiers wear fairly strong chest armour but little or no shoulder or upper arm protection.

Could that Darkstar be the most stubborn man in history?

No, it's just that he has nothing else.

[Connor MacLeod]

Details and consistency (at least in analysis) matter little to these people. They'll ignore the vast majority of cases (or the most common one) in favor of an exception (or outlier) if it favors their position. These are people who will employ "possibilities" no matter how remote to rebut their positions.

Specific proof and definite positions are anathema to them, they love the murkiness of ambiguity and speculation, because its hard for their opponents to refute them properly - its like trying to disperse mist with a baseball bat.

[Lord Poe]

Alyeska further refutes the "facts" in Darkstar's latest blog here: http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=841

Then the regulars (all 4 of them) pile on with handwavium bullshit about the ICS and the Death Star.

Note: Their latest member joined February 10th. And it was Swede!

[Thanatos]

Wait a second: There's at least one post missing from that page since I saw it last. Prometheus had an angry post after WILGA's and now its gone.

Revisionism much?

[Connor MacLeod]

What's so shocking about that? Spocky is so obsessed with "nice and polite" that even editing/deleting/censoring posts (especially I bet if he dislikes what they say) is perfectly acceptable in the course of maintaining "good manners" I mean, what's fairness and consistency in the face of "being nice"

I especially like how he doesn't bother to indicate he did anything. Its not like it matters if anyone knows he's deliberately mutilating other people's responses, after all. No matter what they say.

[Thanatos]

Yeah, White Rabbit had a bunch of his rebuttals to Spock's inane 40K "theories" deleted.

[Wyrm]

All their weapons are going to be ineffective due to their "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT THEY ARE!" shit designs. The Klingons don't even have a proper hand axe, machete or proper one handed saber to work with.

In a nutshell, this is my objection to wacky weapons of all stripes (SciFi or otherwise), unless they're clearly ceremonial. The work-a-day weapons we have look that way for a fucking reason!

Specifically, they're designed to kill, not look different for the sake of looking different.

[Connor MacLeod]

Well, that's Starfleetjedi, not that awful SD.net place they obsess over. Openly editing or deleting posts would be just llike those SD.net bastards, and we can't have that.

[wjs7744]

All their weapons are going to be ineffective due to their "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT THEY ARE!" shit designs. The Klingons don't even have a proper hand axe, machete or proper one handed saber to work with.

Well, they do have some decent weapons, we've seen them. As to whether they frequently use them in combat, now that's another matter.

[Darth Wong]

What's so shocking about that? Spocky is so obsessed with "nice and polite" that even editing/deleting/censoring posts (especially I bet if he dislikes what they say) is perfectly acceptable in the course of maintaining "good manners" I mean, what's fairness and consistency in the face of "being nice"

I especially like how he doesn't bother to indicate he did anything. Its not like it matters if anyone knows he's deliberately mutilating other people's responses, after all. No matter what they say.

I love the way they think it's so horrible that we put most of Darkstar's bullshit into the Hall of Shame where any registered member can see it, while they just delete everything outright if they don't like it.

[Aaron]

It looks like the hijack with the ICS was split to here. JMSpock likes to seperate threads into different ones so they each contain there own topic. It's very annoying and can be hard to follow, especially as he doesn't make a note of what happened.

[Elfdart]

But it is tough, it survived a bullet once, therefore it will survive a bullet another time!

I just watched part of Revenge of the Sith and lo and behold the clonetroopers' armor shows countless scratches and dents, including Palpatine's guards (the stormtroopers with red soulder pads and red helmet markings).

link

These are troops who are on Coruscant, but NOT the ones who took part in the assault on the Jedi Temple, so presumably their gear would be all spit and polish. So the notion that stormtroopers must always be decked out in armor straight off the showroom floor is horseshit and as usual, Darkstar is talking out of his ass.

[Connor MacLeod]

I love the way they think it's so horrible that we put most of Darkstar's bullshit into the Hall of Shame where any registered member can see it, while they just delete everything outright if they don't like it.

Clearly the problem lies in thsi unhealthy obsession of yours to maintain documented evidence of their falsehoods. That makes it much harder for you (and them) to render everything ambiguous and lie their asses off.

It also means The Truth is clearly just an Evil Warsie plot to undermine trek and must be discarded!

[Ritterin Sophia]

It also means The Truth is clearly just an Evil Warsie plot to undermine trek and must be discarded!

Well considering the Trekkies like AssStar are republitards too, it's not like they're going to complain over the truth, I mean when's the last time you saw facts get in the way of neocons?

[CaptHawkeye]

One of my favorite War's related Armor lies is that Stormtroopers lack NBC protection because their are instances where the armor isn't closed up and we can see flesh or or skin. As if they're expected to walk around with their armor 100% buttoned up at all times. I hear US Army soldiers walk around with their NBC gear on and totally closed up at all times too!

Well considering the Trekkies like AssStar are republitards too, it's not like they're going to complain over the truth, I mean when's the last time you saw facts get in the way of neocons?

Dorkstar is a Republican too?

[Aaron]

Dorkstar is a Republican too?

Yep. If you have the patience, then look through this thread. It's pretty revealing.

[Shroom Man 777]

That crack could've been the sound of the Ewok snapping the Stormtrooper's neck.


DARKSTAR

HE IS LEGEND

[Sidewinder]

Dorkstar is a Republican too?

Yep. If you have the patience, then look through this thread. It's pretty revealing.

The post about "lefty plants" has apparently been deleted.

[Thanatos]

Yep. If you have the patience, then look through this thread. It's pretty revealing.

Man, I want to verbally throttle both WILGA and Darkstar while reading that.

[Aaron]

The post about "lefty plants" has apparently been deleted.

This?

As for American soldiers, there has been a bad apple or three, and they have been or will be punished. However, there have been just as many Scott Thomas Beauchamp types who have tried to claim all sorts of evil that didn't exist, as well as assorted AP stringers with BS believed en masse by the media whereas absolutely no confirmatory data can be found by anyone on either side of the political spectrum.

It's all I can find in the ten minutes I have, I'll look around again tomorrow.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yep. If you have the patience, then look through this thread. It's pretty revealing.

Man, I want to verbally throttle both WILGA and Darkstar while reading that.

Ooops! you just issued a death threat to Darkstar and/or WILGA! I'm also pretty sure that's slander or something under German law.

Watch them spin that into "Typical thuggish behaviour from SD.net and their SB lackeys!"