More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-03-28 12:11pm

Vegitative state. Brain Dead = Death. Every article i read that says she is brain dead doesnt mention the fact that if your brain dead you tend to do this thing called DYING. 15 years and no death. Hmmm. Yes theres no chance of her waking up but i just want to correct the fact that you people still call her brain dead. Its not brain dead.

SHe meets the definition of higher brain death, in which her higher brain functions like memory and THOUGHT are GONE. the only things keeping her alive are her brain stem, and a series of machines.

Unless your just saying she literally is then id get it but then dont become doctors because you cant tell a patient "Well your wife is literaly brain dead." Youd have to tell them she is still in a vegitative state(the right term) but then you could explain its been 15 years and she has no chances of waking up.

Which is what the doctors did you stupid fucktard.

As for the husband facts...
Once again i dont know if you people are saying "She might as well be brain dead/dead" or "She IS brain-dead". Shes is not brain dead by medical terms... she is still alive (not for much longer). So technically hes cheating on her.

SHe is alive, but she isnt ALIVE. Her body still breathes and her cells still use oxidative respiration, but her brain and everyting that made her Terri Schaivo are gone. SHe is functionally dead, if she has a soul, it is probably gone, and she is never, ever ever waking up. He still loves her, he loves her enough to go through all this shit to carry on her wishes, so dont you dare accuse him of marital infidelity you worthless trolling palm fucking son of a Herpes covered syphilitic 5 dollar vietnamese hooker.

Because cheating is cheating when your married and seeing as how she is NOT dead hes stilll married. Brain dead is diffrent from a vegitative state.

No, he isnt cheating, because her mind is GONE. And functionally, brain death and a PVS are the same thing. Because higher brain functions cease to be and the person is kept alive by their ever-resilient brain stem

I proved my fact now and im not returning to this post because im sure youll debate it more and i posted some proof things and im done. Goodbye POST!

See you later, you cowardly piece of shit.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-28 12:18pm

Also for you "Cheating" fucktards, would you consider the reaction if he had exercised his "Marital Privledge" while she was in that state. It's called rape of an unconcious person, and if the brain can not perform higher functions, it's been over a period of years since it's been able too, and the lack of higher function has lead to a total loss of the forebrain, there is no one there!

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-28 12:40pm

I thought the scumbags sending their children to get arrested were guilty of child abuse. Turns out I was more right than I thought:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/print_0 ... tests.html

Children On Front Lines Of Protests In Schiavo Case

(ABC7)
Mar. 26 (AP) — Scott Heldreth has been arrested numerous times for picketing abortion clinics and blocking sidewalks while praying. Now his 10-year-old son, Josh, has followed in his footsteps.

Josh is one of six children - ages 10 to 14 - arrested in the past week for crossing a police line at the Woodside Hospice to take water to Terri Schiavo.

"God's with me," said Josh, who asked his father to bring him here from Kannapolis, N.C., to join others supporting Bob and Mary Schindler's fight to restore their daughter's feeding tube.

Demonstrators have allowed their children - some too young to truly understand why they are there - to pass out religious fliers and hold signs accusing Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, of murdering her. The children beat five-gallon buckets like funerary drums and wear shirts declaring them "Youth for Life."

On the grass outside the hospice, 7-year-old Hannah Donahue sat coloring signs while wearing a piece of red tape emblazoned with the word "LIFE" plastered across her mouth and an orange sign on her chest bearing the word "JAIL."

She said the sign was for Michael Schiavo.

"I think they should put him in the jail," Hannah said in a tiny voice. "Because I don't think he knows what Terri wants. He's being the boss."

Her mother, Tete Donahue, of Clearwater, won't allow Hannah to go to jail for this cause. But she thinks it's appropriate to have her on the picket line.

"I'm not bringing her here as a symbol," Donahue said. "She's with me because we believe in life. ... She's learning we give value to life, to human beings."

Scott Heldreth, a veteran of the Operation Rescue and Operation Save America campaigns against abortion, didn't intend to join this fight, until his son asked to be brought to Pinellas Park.

"My wife and I, we felt like if God really put it on his heart, we should come down, to allow him to live out what God had put on his heart," says Heldreth, a carpenter.

His son walked up to sheriff's deputies, carrying a plastic cup, and ignored two requests to turn around. Deputies cuffed his hands behind his back and loaded him into a van with 14-year-old twin girls. At the courthouse, the three youngsters were photographed, fingerprinted and released.

Josh said police were nice, but seemed a bit annoyed.

"We were smiling for Jesus and they didn't like that much," he said.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Which leads to this:

http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_pre ... keys=38964

Date of Photo:08-22-2002

Howard Scott Heldreth

Status: Absconded from Registration

Department of Corrections #: D05316
Date of Birth: 03-23-1973

Race: White
Sex: Male
Height: 5' 09"

Hair: Brown
Eyes: Green
Weight: 180 lbs.

Last Reported Address: Kannapolis, NC
County: Cabarrus
Date Address Entered: 04-30-2004

Qualifying Offense(s):
Sex Offense-Other (Rape 2 Counts (State Of Ohio))

Victim(s): Gender: Unknown ; Minor? Yes

Heldreth is a Sex Offender under Florida law. Positive identification cannot be established unless a fingerprint comparison is made.

If further information is needed, please contact the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit at (1-888-357-7332) between the hours of 8am and 6.30pm, Monday through Friday

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The police should have cuffed him for the kid's sake.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 02:57pm

This doesn't surprise me one bit. Pro-life protesters brought their children on a semi-regular basis to protest at Dr. Tiller's clinic, regardless of weather (we're talking down to fucking infants). There were days they would arrange what I assumed to be kid's days, where they had extra people on the sidewalks and easements, along with their children, enjoying a picnic atmosphere while pleading with patients not to kill their babies.

Any guesses as to the crowd at the funeral? Enormous, I say.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-28 05:11pm

Father fears doctors will hasten Schiavo's death

PINELLAS PARK, United States (AFP) - The father of Terri Schiavo made a desperate, 11th hour appeal for authorities to reconnect a feeding tube to his severely brain-damaged daughter, and said he feared doctors might try to hasten her death.

"I have a grave concern that they'll expedite the process to kill her with an overdose of morphine," Bob Schindler told the press Monday outside the hospice where his 41-year old daughter is a patient.

"She's alive and she's fighting like hell to live," he added, remarking on his daughter's "amazing, amazing endurance."

Schindler added that when he visited his daughter Monday, she was "still showing facial expressions" -- among other signs of interaction.

"She's trying to talk but it's very, very subdued," Schindler said. "All we need, if it's not too late, is for someone to save her," he said.

Schindler made his plea on Schiavo's 11th day without food and water Monday, and with experts saying her death could come at any time.

Schiavo was given what could be her last communion Sunday as protesters opposed to allowing the woman die challenged police and blocked entry to the Florida hospice where she is cared for.

Relatives kept an Easter vigil near the woman throughout Sunday. Absent, however, was Schiavo's mother Mary Schindler, who failed for the first time since the feeding tube was removed on March 18, to take her place at Schiavo's bedside.

A family confidant said Mary Schindler was overcome with grief that, despite years of legal battles, she had been unable to save her daughter, who has been on life support since suffering brain damage 15 years ago.

Robert Schindler said Monday he also had had to overcome his fear of watching his daughter waste away.

"I was scared to death to go in there to see her, for fear of what I'd see. But she has just incredible strength to live," he said.

After Michael Schiavo gave permission for his wife to receive communion, a drop of holy wine was placed on Terri Schiavo's tongue, but she could not receive even a tiny piece of the host because her mouth was so dry, said the Father Tadeusz Malanowski, who administered the sacrament.

Michael Schiavo, insists that his wife should be allowed to die, and that she did not want to be kept alive artificially. Doctors have said she is in a "persistent vegetative state."

The family insists she could improve if given proper treatment, but their legal efforts, including getting a special law passed to have the tube reinserted have failed.

The battle has raged through the Florida's courts and legislature, but escalated after the US Congress stepped in and passed an unprecedented bill, quickly signed by President George W. Bush, allowing the case to be heard in federal court.

Since then, the family has suffered a string of court defeats including one on Saturday, when a state judge rejected the family's argument that Schiavo had tried to say "I want to live" before her feeding tube was removed.

Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the president's brother, said Monday he had exhausted his options in his efforts to save Schiavo.

"It just breaks my heart that we have not erred on the side of life," he said Monday, but reiterated that there was nothing within the law that he could do at this point.

"There is no means by which we can get involved more than we've already done," the Florida governor said. "My guess is there is very little left for the government to do."

YOu gotta love a father that wants his daughter to suffer through every moment of her ordeal.

And gee Jeb - "I think the government has done everything it can." Ya think jackass?!

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 05:15pm

I thought the Schindlers had stated they would drop any further appeals two days ago. Fuckers.

By the way, it seems the crowd outside of the hospice is gaining a number of protesters against government intervention. It's nice to see some response to the ongoing stupidity.

Melchior · Post by **Melchior** » 2005-03-28 05:39pm

Stravo wrote: YOu gotta love a father that wants his daughter to suffer through every moment of her ordeal.

Well, this is only true if he sincerely believes that she is still able to suffer.
I got the impression that the parents act the way they because they hate the husband, not because they really think that Terri has a chance.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-28 05:39pm

I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."

And am I the only one that finds this "incredible will to live" garbage downright absurd? Her body doesn't use as many resources as a normal human's, hence it can survive longer without sustenance. There's no incredible feat of willpower at work here; it's simple fucking science.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 05:40pm

Well, this is only true if he sincerely believes that she is still able to suffer.

They seem to think so, since they've cried on and on about how they're "starving her to death" and the pain many associate with the act.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 05:42pm

I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."

I suppose one could attempt to throw it back in their faces when the death penalty issue comes up, but as always, they're likely to brush it aside.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-28 05:44pm

Firefox wrote:
Well, this is only true if he sincerely believes that she is still able to suffer.
They seem to think so, since they've cried on and on about how they're "starving her to death" and the pain many associate with the act.

Cats and dogs can exhibit pain. This does not mean they are sentient beings. Frankly, Terri's is the best example for legalized euthanasia I can think of. Just as starving your pets to death when they need to be put down is considered cruel, human beings should be given the same courtesy. It's ironic that these right-to-life assholes bitching about all the pain Terri is in are the ones who won't let you give her a lethal injection so she can die in a dignified manner, either.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2005-03-28 05:49pm

From what I've heard, Michael Schiavo goes in to visit his wife for a long time, then leaves, all very quietly, leaving his lawyer to talk to the press (that being what lawyers tend to do).

The Schindler's, on the other hand, can't seem to wait to talk to the press, as oppossed to being with their daughter.

That may not be 100% accurate, but it sure as hell is the impression I've been getting, seeing them in front of the reporters all the time.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-03-28 05:50pm

Durandal wrote:I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."

And am I the only one that finds this "incredible will to live" garbage downright absurd? Her body doesn't use as many resources as a normal human's, hence it can survive longer without sustenance. There's no incredible feat of willpower at work here; it's simple fucking science.

The brain is very very greedy, it consumes a shitload of glucose, now if over half the brain is the equivalent of jello....

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-28 05:54pm

To echo Aly, 85% of your body's energy consumtion at rest is done by the brain.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-03-28 05:56pm

Durandal wrote:I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."

We'll see how that logic applies when it comes to the death penality debate.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-28 05:59pm

did someone mention logic and polotics in the same breath?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-03-28 06:15pm

Durandal wrote:I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."

Really? They must be behind the curve over in the USA. I came to that conclusion with regards to abortion myself fucking years ago when I was still a goddamn kid. Not that it is relevant to the Schiavo case anyway as she has no chance of ever regaining conciousness.

Wicked Pilot wrote:We'll see how that logic applies when it comes to the death penality debate.

I beleive I have dismissed the connection between abortion on the one hand and the death penalty on the other elsewhere. Euthanesia is also distinct from both of these issues.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-03-28 06:29pm

Really? They must be behind the curve over in the USA. I came to that conclusion with regards to abortion myself fucking years ago when I was still a goddamn kid. Not that it is relevant to the Schiavo case anyway as she has no chance of ever regaining conciousness.

You realize of course that if we outlaw abotion, they will still happen. Only then they wouldnt be in clean clinics with liscenced doctors... but in back alleys or public bathrooms with these

to better illustrateNOT FUCKING WORK SAFE

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-03-28 06:32pm

Doing a reverse Tommy J, are we?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-03-28 06:34pm

Lord Zentei wrote:I beleive I have dismissed the connection between abortion on the one hand and the death penalty on the other elsewhere. Euthanesia is also distinct from both of these issues.

What the hell are you talking about? 'Err on the side of life' can be applied to all three cases.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-03-28 06:40pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:I beleive I have dismissed the connection between abortion on the one hand and the death penalty on the other elsewhere. Euthanesia is also distinct from both of these issues.
What the hell are you talking about? 'Err on the side of life' can be applied to all three cases.

Indeed yes, but conditions and context are quite different in each case (incidentally, I am opposed to the death penalty).

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-28 06:47pm

So how long can we get away with continuously playing "One" by Metallica next to the white house or next to the Fla gov.'s mansjian before getting arrested?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-28 06:56pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Durandal wrote:I think the right has picked up a new tag-line: "Err on the side of life." Imagine what this will do to the abortion debate. All they have to do now is say, "Well scientists can't tell us exactly when the fetus becomes a human, so we should err on the side of life and outlaw abortion completely."
We'll see how that logic applies when it comes to the death penality debate.

The obvious retort is that the court system is flawless when it comes to sentencing men to death (as Dale Adams found with regards to the Texas court system), but not to be trusted when determining the wishes of people regarding artificial life support.

Lord Zentei wrote:Really? They must be behind the curve over in the USA. I came to that conclusion with regards to abortion myself fucking years ago when I was still a goddamn kid. Not that it is relevant to the Schiavo case anyway as she has no chance of ever regaining conciousness.

The point is that that argument is fucking stupid. The US is behind the curve because such bogus reasoning actually flies with politicians, and you're as stupid as the people protesting the removal of Terri's feeding tube if you think it's a valid argument.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-03-28 07:05pm

Durandal wrote:The point is that that argument is fucking stupid. The US is behind the curve because such bogus reasoning actually flies with politicians, and you're as stupid as the people protesting the removal of Terri's feeding tube if you think it's a valid argument.

How is "When in doubt, err on the side of caution" a stupid argument? Anyway as I have stated, the conditions and context are quite different in these cases, so the comparison between Terri and a foetus is irrelevant in any case, which was my argument.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-28 07:28pm

"She's trying to talk but it's very, very subdued," Schindler said. "All we need, if it's not too late, is for someone to save her," he said.

Wow. These people really are living in their own private fantasy land, and seem to actually have projected the delusion of their vegetable daughter attempting to talk to them. Its really quite amazing and disturbing.