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Beowulf wrote:
Wilkonia: King
Canissa: King
Tian Xia: Emperor (rough translation)
Grand Duchy of Baal: Duke
Principality of Tongdjiwana: Prince (assumedly)

Even if you just count the active members, that's still 3 large countries that make no bones about being monarchies.

Wilkonia I have no excuse about, Tian Xian I thought was a Parliament Republic. Baal is listed as "General" not duke, and I forgot about whatever the fuck, tongue job? was a MESS nation.

Huang Di Beowulf has an elected council of advisors. He still retains all power, that he has not delegated to other entities. And it's Tian Xia. One "n". But hey, you can't even manage to get your own allies nation's names correct. Duke is a title that derives from a military title, approximately General in rank.

Beowulf wrote:Huang Di Beowulf has an elected council of advisors. He still retains all power, that he has not delegated to other entities. And it's Tian Xia. One "n". But hey, you can't even manage to get your own allies nation's names correct. Duke is a title that derives from a military title, approximately General in rank.

As I say always, spell-check does not exactly cover fantasy country names, and two if I could spell I'd be waiting tables with the other English majors rather than busting my ass fixing fucked up servers and mis-configured routers.

Mr Bean wrote:

Beowulf wrote:
Wilkonia: King
Canissa: King
Tian Xia: Emperor (rough translation)
Grand Duchy of Baal: Duke
Principality of Tongdjiwana: Prince (assumedly)

Even if you just count the active members, that's still 3 large countries that make no bones about being monarchies.

Wilkonia I have no excuse about, Tian Xian I thought was a Parliament Republic. Baal is listed as "General" not duke, and I forgot about whatever the fuck, tongue job? was a MESS nation.

Part of that is we only just finished running through all the details about structure and setup so we've been lax in keeping the Alliance thread up to date until now. Nonetheless Wilkonia and Canissia are pretty blunt about being monarchies (even if Canissia is coy in its formal name).

So, here's my proposed course of action.

Ramsley needs to be called at the tables in Omsk, so I will arrange his safe coming by sending Volkov in a T-4 to pick him up, safest way possible. It has come to my attention that he's Orthodox (and no way in hell he'd be attacking two main Orthodox nations, Byzantium and R...ed Technocracy, indeed).

We also need the Patriatch (hello Fingolfin_Noldor!!!) to arrive in Omsk and determine whether the rituals of the "Sons of the Faith" require any correction, and if they could be accepted into the greater church as a Libertian Diocese.

Now, it's important that we don't just crash this whole affair- Ramsley controls most of the coasts, and the MESS are making feelers towards him or vice versa, and the Sultan. Which means propping Alexander will be harder.

Technically, since no one knows about anything, we can just make Alexander ... vanish - after all his own guard will hardly be a match for Spetsnaz, and prop Ramsley instead.

Stas Bush wrote:So, here's my proposed course of action.

Ramsley needs to be called at the tables in Omsk, so I will arrange his safe coming by sending Volkov in a T-4 to pick him up, safest way possible. It has come to my attention that he's Orthodox (and no way in hell he'd be attacking two main Orthodox nations, Byzantium and R...ed Technocracy, indeed).

We also need the Patriatch (hello Fingolfin_Noldor!!!) to arrive in Omsk and determine whether the rituals of the "Sons of the Faith" require any correction, and if they could be accepted into the greater church as a Libertian Diocese.

Now, it's important that we don't just crash this whole affair- Ramsley controls most of the coasts, and the MESS are making feelers towards him or vice versa, and the Sultan. Which means propping Alexander will be harder.

Technically, since no one knows about anything, we can just make Alexander ... vanish - after all his own guard will hardly be a match for Spetsnaz, and prop Ramsley instead.

Ok ok. I will update that latest news post to include the Patriarch. He will anoint Ramsley a Patriarch etc.

On second thought, I will appoint Ramsley as "Defender of the Faith" and then give him a bishop as spiritual advisor.

Yeah, Patriarch-Katolikos of All Libertia would be appropriate for Ramsley I think. Or anything else.

I just sent my plane for him, which flies at Mach 3, so he will be in Omsk City in about an hour to attend the OMSK Summit.

However, we now have two warlords on hands we'll have to forge some sort of truce between them. I think General Alexander could be granted autonomy. In any case, they will team up to kill the Sultan.

Who will lead Libertia as a real state, however, remains a question.

I propose Alexander be appointed the Secular ruler and Ramsley the Spiritual ruler, and we build something like Iran with Khomenei/Mahmoud, except our version is orthodox.

Islamists (coo-coo Sultan) will have to go. Alexander will become the formal head of state, but Ramsley will have the power. Like in Iran.

Stas Bush wrote:Yeah, Patriarch-Katolikos of All Libertia would be appropriate for Ramsley I think. Or anything else.

I just sent my plane for him, which flies at Mach 3, so he will be in Omsk City in about an hour to attend the OMSK Summit.

However, we now have two warlords on hands we'll have to forge some sort of truce between them. I think General Alexander could be granted autonomy. In any case, they will team up to kill the Sultan.

Who will lead Libertia as a real state, however, remains a question.

I propose Alexander be appointed the Secular ruler and Ramsley the Spiritual ruler, and we build something like Iran with Khomenei/Mahmoud, except our version is orthodox.

Islamists (coo-coo Sultan) will have to go. Alexander will become the formal head of state, but Ramsley will have the power. Like in Iran.

Aren't they two different factions?

Mr Bean wrote:Were it not for you Coyote I'd have it locked up, the Mess is loaded down with Republics and Parliamentary Democracy's while OMSK has a three Royalty based country's. He's and up-star claiming Royal blood which everyone knows is bullshit.

However the UKB and the BBC have always been careful to acknowledge the "Lord" while the Lonestar and co refer to him as "Mister Ramsley" and that would bruise his ego make no mistake.

Your the only flaw in that as you are a King, however that is balanced by you know, the whole Hedonism thing, and it's not going to go well with a Religious Fundamentalist Orthodoxy group.

Or, taking calls from the choclate bath tub might fly with the other Mess memebers, but might be a slight issue with him.

Heheh! Politics makes for strange bedfellows, especially when one has third-parties they want to keep in check. The relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia defies logic, too.

He sees his rival go to OMSK; so he looks around and sees, well... who lines up on the other side of OMSK? The MESS. So in a fit of pique, he puts out feelers. This is not so much an agreement with MESS principles as it is a "so there!" at a perceived affront.

Why Canissia as opposed to any other? I admit it makes no sense; probably just because I can RP it better if he calls me than, say, Lonestar. But perhaps it's because everyone knows Canissia has good relations with the Red Technocracy, so if the stove turns out to be too hot, he can withdraw his hand and say "kidding!". Or, because forging a relationship with a MESS nation that floats in a OMSK sea might be a real poke in the eye.

He sees the delicate tripod being threatened, so lashes out.

In truth, though, most of the MESS so far seems unimpressed with him and don't really want to get bogged down in proxy wars.

Aren't they two different factions?

Yes, but so? We have to come to an agreement. Ramsley is our best man, and he controls the coastline. Alexander petitioned the OMSK for survival. We can grant him that. But if he objects to Ramsley holding the REAL power in Libertia, we'll have to off him.

EDIT: Good, good! Let's play the religion card! Heh, I feel grand.

If anyone is curious, despite being a "President" and in charge of a "Republic" I am not an elected leader. My Vice President is in line to take over when I step down for any reason, and it's basically done like that, though not strictly hereditary (though I could certainly make it like that, should I have an heir, male or female).

So I'm kinda-sorta monarch-ish, though I don't call it as such. I suppose dictator would be better to describe me. A benevolent one though.

And just to remind the OMSK Pact, you propping one, or even two, of the warlords to go on a war of conquest will not be looked kindly upon by the MESS. Libertia is, at last report, reasonably peaceful. We don't want a Civil War breaking out (even if it's 2 on 1) and we wouldn't be too fond of anyone on the outside who helps to instigate one.

Stas Bush wrote:

Aren't they two different factions?

Yes, but so? We have to come to an agreement. Ramsley is our best man, and he controls the coastline. Alexander petitioned the OMSK for survival. We can grant him that. But if he objects to Ramsley holding the REAL power in Libertia, we'll have to off him.

EDIT: Good, good! Let's play the religion card! Heh, I feel grand.

Jesus, people. This will end in blood.

You can assassinate Alexander, but then his lieutenants go for each other's throats. Ramsley will then try to occupy the place, and the Sultan will try to take advantage of the situation.

The result? Another bloody civil war.

Propping up a proxy warlords is pointless, it will achieve nothing at all. At best, we get an unstable Libertopia which will continously threaten to descend into civil war. Compared to that, the status quo is pretty decent.

PeZook wrote:Jesus, people. This will end in blood.

You can assassinate Alexander, but then his lieutenants go for each other's throats. Ramsley will then try to occupy the place, and the Sultan will try to take advantage of the situation.

The result? Another bloody civil war.

Propping up a proxy warlords is pointless, it will achieve nothing at all. At best, we get an unstable Libertopia which will continously threaten to descend into civil war. Compared to that, the status quo is pretty decent.

Depends on who assassinates him. If an "infidel" assassinates the "Defender of the Faith", it can only mean "Crusade".

Furthermore: The FUN has a proposal on Zablania.

1) The FUN shall take over administration of Zablania and construct necessary support facilities to turn it into an international waste dump/live fire range.

2) The FUN shall allow use of these facilities to any country which desires it, as secured by bilateral agreements.

3) Maintenance of FUN facilities in Zablania shall be jointly funded by the FUN and countries desiring to use them

4) No nuclear or chemical weapon testing will be allowed in Zablania, and no naval fire excercises will be allowed.

5) If any native wildlife survived the bombing, it shall be relocated to wildlife preserves elsewhere before construction begins.

PeZook wrote:Jesus, people. This will end in blood.

You can assassinate Alexander, but then his lieutenants go for each other's throats. Ramsley will then try to occupy the place, and the Sultan will try to take advantage of the situation.

The result? Another bloody civil war.

Propping up a proxy warlords is pointless, it will achieve nothing at all. At best, we get an unstable Libertopia which will continously threaten to descend into civil war. Compared to that, the status quo is pretty decent.

And they're assuming they can control these two. They could just as easily turn on each other as soon as the Sultan is taken care of. And they'd have the weaponry (courtesy of the OMSK) to make it very bloody indeed.

To say nothing of what'll happen to the Sultan's people.

EDIT: And since I'm not sure who is who exactly in what's going down, if I messed up on who the 'third party' is let's just assume I was talking about them.

Libertia has been a haven of instability, war and crime for years.

If the OMSK puts an end to that, why would anyone object?

Especially with the FULL MIGHT of the OMSK behind any of those warlords, the rest will be doomed to fall and all of Libertia would soon be united, under an admittely dictatorial government, hell, even a Saddam-ish government, but that's better than what the nation looks like now.

Stability, conditions for investment and possible social conditins embetterment.

Unlike the United States in Iraq, the OMSK has no qualms and will support any kind of ruler necessary to bring stability to Libertia.

EDIT: in other news, MAPS will be updated this evening, when I arrive home.

The Central Sea shall accomodate one more nation, on a special request, but dudes, remember the Central Sea is pretty crammed right now.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Depends on who assassinates him. If an "infidel" assassinates the "Defender of the Faith", it can only mean "Crusade".

Whatever the combination, their people will suffer through another civil war which will resolve nothing. We'll just get another set of warlords to deal with.

We may attempt to force them to reconcillate, but this probably won't work either because of their characters - they may start a war purely out of spite.

One thing is certain: giving them weapons is a major mistake.

If anyone of them is admitted into the OMSK, his territory automatically becomes OMSK territory and if any other Libertian warlord attacks that territory, we will destroy him with the full might of OMSK.

However, we will not launch a war of conquest in Libertia.

I propose that the territory controlled by the warlord simply admits nto OMSK, and from thereone is considered a sovereign nationstate.

Stas Bush wrote:Libertia has been a haven of instability, war and crime for years.

If the OMSK puts an end to that, why would anyone object?

Especially with the FULL MIGHT of the OMSK behind any of those warlords, the rest will be doomed to fall and all of Libertia would soon be united, under an admittely dictatorial government, hell, even a Saddam-ish government, but that's better than what the nation looks like now.

Stability, conditions for investment and possible social conditins embetterment.

Unlike the United States in Iraq, the OMSK has no qualms and will support any kind of ruler necessary to bring stability to Libertia.

EDIT: in other news, MAPS will be updated this evening, when I arrive home.

The Central Sea shall accomodate one more nation, on a special request, but dudes, remember the Central Sea is pretty crammed right now.

If you try to prop up the two of them, the most likely course is that they'll gladly take out the third Warlord. Once that's done they turn on each other. Let's face it, that is the most likely scenario, as I sincerely doubt either man would accept being the number two.

And while we do agree that bringing some order to Libertia is a good thing, the massive bloodshed that will ensue (what, you don't think your chosen warlords won't get all ethnic cleansing on the population of the third faction) is not the way to do it.

We're back to where we were when we first discussed this, except now the OMSK wants to trigger a civil war. The MESS doesn't want that. I don't think anyone else would either.

Ramsley may be sending feelers out to us so we'll proxy him, but we won't. It just won't happen.

And let's face it, in character you know what the OMSK propping up one faction and thereby instigating a civil war in Terra Libertia? An attempt to create a second vassal state for you to use as you please. Do you really think we're gonna let you get away with that?

Stas Bush wrote:Libertia has been a haven of instability, war and crime for years.

If the OMSK puts an end to that, why would anyone object?

How can you guarantee success, though?

Stas Bush wrote:Especially with the FULL MIGHT of the OMSK behind any of those warlords, the rest will be doomed to fall and all of Libertia would soon be united, under an admittely dictatorial government, hell, even a Saddam-ish government, but that's better than what the nation looks like now.

Alexander can run a guerilla war for decades with nothing more than AK-47s and determined people ; He's holed up in the mountains and controls all the mineral wealth.

You can reliably take out Ramsley, maybe the Sultan (unless Saddamistan actually backs him up), but you won't get at Alexander (save for assassinating him on Atlantis, but a new warlord will arise in his place)

Stas Bush wrote:Stability, conditions for investment and possible social conditins embetterment.

Unlike the United States in Iraq, the OMSK has no qualms and will support any kind of ruler necessary to bring stability to Libertia.

Except this doesn't guarantee anything - the new ruler will be seen as a puppet proppped up by the OMSK. You may just as well get an unstable banana republic with military coups every two years.

Stas Bush wrote:If anyone of them is admitted into the OMSK, his territory automatically becomes OMSK territory and if any other Libertian warlord attacks that territory, we will destroy him with the full might of OMSK.

However, we will not launch a war of conquest in Libertia.

I propose that the territory controlled by the warlord simply admits nto OMSK, and from thereone is considered a sovereign nationstate.

That's pretty dicey. Such a move would be highly provacotive towards the one left out. And they won't all agree. It could well scare them into acting, giving you the perfect excuse to go out and annex the rest of the country.

Well for now we don't want a civil war.

However, since Alexander and Ramsley control what basically amount to small nationstates INSIDE Libertia, why would we not be able to incorporate them?

Stas, I gotta say theres something awesome about a Othodox Prest blessing a SuperSonic SpyPlane

"Oh Lord Bless this Rocket Plane and all those that Dwell in this Rocket Plane!"

RogueIce wrote: If you try to prop up the two of them, the most likely course is that they'll gladly take out the third Warlord. Once that's done they turn on each other. Let's face it, that is the most likely scenario, as I sincerely doubt either man would accept being the number two.

And while we do agree that bringing some order to Libertia is a good thing, the massive bloodshed that will ensue (what, you don't think your chosen warlords won't get all ethnic cleansing on the population of the third faction) is not the way to do it.

We're back to where we were when we first discussed this, except now the OMSK wants to trigger a civil war. The MESS doesn't want that. I don't think anyone else would either.

Ramsley may be sending feelers out to us so we'll proxy him, but we won't. It just won't happen.

And let's face it, in character you know what the OMSK propping up one faction and thereby instigating a civil war in Terra Libertia? An attempt to create a second vassal state for you to use as you please. Do you really think we're gonna let you get away with that?

How about forming a unified international line on this?

We could recognize all three of them as having a claim on their current territorries, and threaten that if any single one of them gets out of line, he will get destroyed.

This will, of course, lead to politicking and warlords trying to use this threat to manufacture a crisis and get rid of their rivals...we'd need observers and intelligence on the ground, since incidents will happen.

Then we'll need to pressure them to improve conditions in their own little fiefdoms, provide security and order and all that.

It's certainly a better solution than just propping up one and having him take over.