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Thanas wrote:OOB revision has started right now.

Meanwhile, I would like to offer trade pacts to Darthkommandant and Karmic Knight.

Karmic Knight wrote:
Also, does anyone mind if I use Borsk Fey'lya and some of the other named Bothans?

Mr Bean wrote:Most of the main characters are supposed to be dead, this should included Borsk dieing on the attack on Imperial Center, who are else are you thinking of using?

Karmic Knight wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:Most of the main characters are supposed to be dead, this should included Borsk dieing on the attack on Imperial Center, who are else are you thinking of using?

Specifically, only Traest Kre'fey, who would only appear later in the game, but I would like to give myself the option of being able to pull Bothan officials to populate the Spynet out of Wookieepeidia.

Karmic Knight wrote:Also, does anyone mind if I use Borsk Fey'lya and some of the other named Bothans?

The grand total of experimental and advanced fighters may not exceed a reasonable amount. Currently, the mods have agreed that experimental and advanced fighters may not form more than 25% of your ship-stationed fighter forces. Do not try to circumvent this by stationing experimental or advanced units planetside, they will still count as ship-stationed forces for the purpose of assessing that limit.

That limit will be reassessed in six years game time.

SiegeTank wrote:Before we go any further I'd like to see a comprehensive list of 'experimental and advanced' fighters, and question whether Thanas' latest post means there is now a further distinction between 'experimental and advanced' and 'heavy' starfighters. If so I'd further like to know what constitutes a 'heavy' starfighter as well.

Older model starfighters: 1 points per wing (Z-95s, Eta-IIs, Cloakshapes, etc)
Standard starfighters: 2 points per wing (X-Wings, TIEs, etc)
Advanced/Specialized starfighters: 4 points per wing (TIE Avenger ["Advanced"], Scimitar, A-Wing)
Experimental: 6 points per squadron (TIE Defender, TIE Phantom, Missile Boat)
A "Wing" is 72 fighters.

Older models:
C-73 Tracker
Droid Vulture
Droid Tri-Fighter
Eta-2 Actis Interceptor
Delta-7 Aethersprite
ARC-170
V-19 Torrent
Alpha-3 Nimbus V-Wing
Z-95 Headhunter
Razor
Toscan 8-Q
KDY Cloakshape

Standard:
Authority IRD
T-Wing
X-Wing
Y-Wing
TIE Fighter
TIE Interceptor
TIE Bomber
Assault Gunboat
Supa
TL-118 Starhammer
I-7 Howlrunner
SoroSuub Planetary Defender
Tapani Cooperative Manta

Advanced
A-wing
B-wing
V38 assault fighter
TIE Avenger ("Advanced")
TIE Hunter
TIE Aggressor
TIE Scimitar Assault Bomber
TIE Talon Capship Assault
A-9 Vigilance Interceptor
Preybird

Experimental
E-wing
TIE Defender
TIE Phantom (cloak)
K-wing

Mr Bean wrote:Going to have to agree as well since Coyote's current sticky list shows only Imperial fighters as advanced or experimental which means the only forces with advanced fighters are the Imperials. So the Republic forces can load up on A,B,E-Wings to their hearts content.

Imperial

Gunships: 2 Points
Corellian---------------- Length: 120 m (2 mos)

Corvettes: 2 Points
CR-90-------------------- Length: 150 m (2 mos)
Assassin----------------- Length: 150 m (2 mos)

Frigates: 3 Points
Lancer--------------------Length: 250 m (6 mos)
Nebulon B-----------------Length: 300 m (6 mos)
Nebulon B (med.)----------Length: 300 m (8 mos)
Nebulon BII---------------Length: 253 m (6 mos)

Dreadnoughts: 4 points
Dreadnought-------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)
Dreadnought II ---------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, Light: 4 Points
Vibre ------------------- Length: 100 m (2 mos)
Bayonet ----------------- Length: 200 m (4 mos)
1000-class--------------- Length: 300 m (4 mos)
Carrack------------------ Length: 350 m (6 mos)
Strike------------------- Length: 450 m (8 mos)
Eidolon (Strike mod.)---- Length: 450 m (9 mos)

Cruisers, Medium: 5 points
Broadside---------------- Length: 500 m (8 mon)
Gladiator---------------- Length: 500 m (8 mon)
Enforcer----------------- Length: 598 m (8 mon)
Vindicator--------------- Length: 600 m (8 mon)
Chariot------------------ Length: 600 m (10 mos)
Interdictor (grav)------- Length: 600 m (10 mos)
Bulk--------------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, Medium: 6 points
Ecliptic-II -----------------Length: 752 m (10 mos)
Modular Taskforce-------- Length: 1150 m (10 mos)

Star Destroyers, Light: 8 points
Victory I---------------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)
Victory II--------------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)

Star Destroyers: 12 points
Imperial I--------------- Length: 1600 m (12 mos)
Imperial II-------------- Length: 1600 m (12 mos)
Tector------------------Length: 1600 m (14 mos)
Dominator (grav)--------- Length: 1600 m (14 mos)

Star Destroyers, Command: 15 points
Allegiance--------------- Length: 2200 m (14 mos)

Star Destroyers, Heavy: (You must command at least 5 "Major" or higher worlds to build these)
Eradicator--------------- Length: 3,500 m (16 mos, (20 points)
Star Lord---------------- Length: 3,900 m (16 mos, 22 points)
Overlord----------------- Length: 6,200 m (18 mos, 45 points)
Dark Sky----------------- Length: 7,400 m (20 mos, 60 points)
The player is limited to building 8 of these in total.

Star Destroyers, Super: (You must command at least 10 "Major" or higher worlds to build these)
Vengeance---------------- Length: 10,000 m (24 mos, 120 points)
"Super" series----------- Length: 19,000 m (50 mos, 220 points)
Eclipse------------------ Length: 16,000 m (80 mos, 300 points)
The Player is limited to building four of these in total.

Planetary Assault Platform: 150 points (You must command at least 10 "Major" or higher worlds to build these)
Torpedo Sphere----------- Diam.: 1900 m (40 mos)

Assault Carriers:
Acclamator--------------- Length: 752 m (7 points, 10 mos)
Doomgiver---------------- Length: 1800 m (10 points, 16 mos)

Starfighter Carriers: 10 points
Escort------------------- Length: 500 m (8 mos)
Venator SD--------------- Length: 1137 m (10 mos)

Rebel/NR

Gunships: 2 points
Corellian----------------- Length: 120 m (2 mos)

Corvettes: 2 points
CR-90--------------------- Length: 150 m (2 mos)
FarStar Pocket Carrier---- Length: 150 m (3 mos)
Assassin------------------Length: 150m (2 mos)

Frigates: 3 points
Corona---------------------Length: 275 m (6 mos)
Nebulon B------------------Length: 300 m (6 mos)
Nebulon B (med)------------Length: 300 m (8 mos)
Nebulon BII----------------Length: 253 m (6 mos)

Dreadnoughts: 4 points
Dreadnought--------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)
Rebel Assault 'Cruiser'----Length: 700 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, Light: 4 points
1000-class---------------- Length: 300 m (4 mos)
Strike-------------------- Length: 450 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, Medium: 5 points
Bulwark------------------- Length: 500 m (8 mos)
Enforcer------------------ Length: 598 m (8 mos)
Bulk---------------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)
Majestic ----------------- Length: 700 m (10 mos)


Cruisers, Heavy: 6 points
CC-9600 ------------------ Length: 850 m (10 mos)
Triumph ------------------ Length: 900 m (10 mos)
Command Assault ---------- Length: 1000 m (10 mos)
Modular Taskforce--------- Length: 1150 m (10 mos)


Mon Cal Designs: buildable only when licensed by MonCal or ordered there.
MonCal Corvette (2 pt)--Length: 200 m (2 mos)
MC30 Frigate (3 pt)--Length: 300 m (6 mos)
MC40 Light Cruiser (5 pt)--Length: 500 m (8 months)
MC80 Star Cruisers (12 pt) L: 1200-2400 m (12-16 mos)
MC90 Star Cruisers (12 pt)- Length: 1255 m (12 months)
Cruiser, Home One (15 pt)- Lengths: 3200-3800 m (18 mos) You must command at least 5 major or higher worlds to built this one.


Star Destroyers, Light: 8 points
Victory I------------ Length: 900 m (10 mos)
Victory II----------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)

Republic------------- Length: 1250 m (10 mos)
Recusant------------Length: 1200 (10 mos)

Star Destroyers, heavy:
Nebula/Defender------------- Length: 1040 m (10 pts, 12 mos)
Dauntless----------------- Length: 1500 m (12 pts, 12 mos)

Battleships, small:
Bulwark (40 pts)----------- Length: 3501 m (16 months) (You must command at least 5 "Major" or higher worlds to build these)
Mediator (60 pts)---- Length: 8000 m (21 mos) (You must command at least 10 major or higher worlds to build these)
Player is limited to build 8 in total

Viscount (210 pts)---------- L: 17km (50 mos) (You must command at least 10 "Major" or higher worlds to build these. Player is limited to building 4 in total)

Assault Carriers: 7 points
Acclamator---------------- Length: 752 m (10 months)

Starfighter Carrier, Escort: 8 pts
Quasar Fire--------------- Length: 340 m (8 months)

Starfighter Carriers: 10 pts
Liberator----------------- Length: 800 m (10 months)
Endurance----------------- Length: 1040 m (12 months)
Venator SD---------------- Length: 1137 m (10 months)

CIS

Corvettes: 2 points
Marauder------------------ Length: 195 m (4 mos)
Sabre--------------------- Length: 195 m (4 mos)
Hardcell------------------ Length: 220 m (4 mos)

Frigates: 4 points
Munificent---------------- Length: 825 m (8 mos)

Frigate, Heavy: 6 points
Presidente---------------- L: 500m/W: 1km (8 mos)

Destroyers: 8 points
Providence---------------- Length: 1088 m (10 mos)
Recusant------------------ Length: 1187 m (10 mos)

Star Destroyers, Light: 8 points
Victory------------------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)

Carriers: 15 points
Gunray (Leviathan)-------- Diam.: 3170 m (16 mos)
(This is just a Trade Fed ring ship devoted to carrying swarms of fighters)

Small Battleships: 20 points (You must command at least 5 major or higher worlds to built one, player limited to building 8 in total)
Lucrehulk class ----------------- Diam.: 3170 m (16 mos)
Droid Control Ship--------- Diam.: 3170 m (16 mos)(-12 guns)

Battleships: You must command at least 10 major or higher worlds to built these.
Subjugator-class heavy cruiser---------- Length: 8km (20 mos, 60 points), Player limited to building 6 in total

Non aligned worlds

Gunships: 2 points
Corellian---------------- Length: 120 m (2 mos)

Corvettes: 2 points
Assassin-class ---------- Length: 150 m (2 mos)
CR-90-------------------- Length: 150 m (2 mos)
Y-Head ------------------ Length: 165 m (2 mos)
Marauder----------------- Length: 195 m (4 mos)

Frigates: 3 points
Nebulon B-----------------Length: 300 m (6 mos)
Nebulon B (med)-----------Length: 300 m (8 mos)
Nebulon BII---------------Length: 253 m (6 mos)
Nova (Hapan)--------------Length: 500 m (8 mos)

Dreadnoughts: 4 points
Dreadnought-------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, Light: 4 points
Republic----------------- Length: 115 m (2 mos)
1000-class--------------- Length: 300 m (4 mos)
Carrack------------------ Length: 350 m (6 mos)
Strike------------------- Length: 450 m (8 mos)

Cruisers: 5 points
Bulk--------------------- Length: 600 m (8 mos)

Cruisers, 6 points:
Modular Taskforce-------- Length: 1150 m (10 mos)

Battle Cruisers: 6 points
Battle Dragon (Hapan)----- Diam.: 500 m (12 mos)


Cruisers, Heavy: 12 points
Dauntless---------------- Length: 1500 m (12 mos)

Star Destroyers, Light: 8 points
Victory I---------------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)
Victory II--------------- Length: 900 m (10 mos)

Battleships: 30 points (note: 5 major or above worlds required, limit of 8 total)
Bulwark------------------ Length: 3501 m (16 mos)

Assault Carriers: 7 points
Acclamator--------------- Length: 752 m (10 mos)

Starfighter Carriers, Escort: 8 points
Quasar Fire-------------- Length: 340 m (8 mos)

Starfighter Carriers: 10 points
Escort------------------- Length: 500 m (8 mos)
Liberator---------------- Length: 800 m (10 mos)
Tapani Cooperative------- Length: 500 m (8 mos)

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why is the E-wing considered experimental? It was launched sometime during Thrawn's invasion.

Regarding the list, I think there should be a clear distinction between an expensive heavy fighter, and an experimental. Missile Gunboats and TIE Defenders are already combat proven, just bloody expensive even when compared against X-wings and B-wings.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Few nitpicks:

1. Defender/Nebula SDs are ISDIIs in their own right. Cheaper maybe, but certainly not classified as a Light Destroyer. Shorten the construction time to 10 months perhaps.

2. Acclaimators should be cheaper or else there wouldn't be much justification to even have them. Why build an Acclaimator when a Venator, though with a slightly smaller troop complement, can do so much more?

Thanas wrote:The defender class is utterly wanked due to the horrible Cracken's threat dossier. WEG-wank to the max. There is no way a ship that is only about half the mass can defeat an ISDII, while carrying nearly the same amount of fighters. I believe it is a great anti-starship warship along the lines of the VSDII, but certainly not up to the ISDII.

Also, they took notoriously long to build. Over 9 years, the NR only built 10.

Thanas wrote:No, it first appeared in Dark Empire. Thus, experimental. And it is also damm expensive.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Thanas wrote:The defender class is utterly wanked due to the horrible Cracken's threat dossier. WEG-wank to the max. There is no way a ship that is only about half the mass can defeat an ISDII, while carrying nearly the same amount of fighters. I believe it is a great anti-starship warship along the lines of the VSDII, but certainly not up to the ISDII.

The Defender traded a number of things for it to be smaller.

1. It has only 1600 troops, versus 25000 for an ISD and a host of other ground assault equipment and 3 prefab bases.

2. It has only 6 months of consumables versus 6 years in an ISD.

3. Point defence weapons wise, it seems it carries 10 or more less of each (40 heavy turbos, 40 light turbos and 20 ions etc. instead of 50 in an ISDII). It may even have less turrets since the ship was optimised for forward fire rather than broadsides which Imperial ships favour.

4. NR ships are known to use more automation than their Imperial counterparts.

So I don't think they are over wanked, and quite frankly, if we are going to consider established canon, it fits. Especially considering the cost and that the NR was deep in debt in those years.

Also, they took notoriously long to build. Over 9 years, the NR only built 10.

This is the NR we are talking about, where a 105 ship 5th Fleet was considered huge.

Incorrect. It was stated in the Guide to Vehicles and Vessels that they were deployed in small numbers during the Thrawn campaign, often on escort duties. And yes they are expensive since they were using more advanced systems than contemporary fighters.

RogueIce wrote:Just note though that some things are likely to be determined by mod fiat in order to get this game going. Whether for virtue of simplicity, gameplay balance, or whatever other reason, you're just gonna have to live with it (and so will we, for that matter).

RogueIce wrote:So let's not get bogged down into arguments and flamewars before the game even gets off the ground, please?