The Dark Knight (GODDAMN SPOILERS)

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-03 06:10pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:Is anyone here from Portsmouth, NH? I was going through there the other day, and I saw perhaps the best viral marketing campaign for the new Batman movie. It was obviously a local effort, done by some local promoters or artists or something. But they took movie posters for "The Bucket List" with Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson and spray-painted "Why So Serious?" in a speech bubble coming out of Nicholson's mouth, and his face was painted like the Joker. Morgan Freeman's face was crossed out and all the other words on it were equally vandalized. Unfortunately I didn't have a camera on me. I can't find any information about it online, either.

Awesome. Reminds me of when Stravo saw a load of "I believe in Harvey Dent" supporters in NY. There was a similar graffiti comment on an xkcd porter at a convention I was at last month with some brilliant Joker cosplay.

Shannon · Post by **Shannon** » 2008-08-03 06:21pm

Well, my entirely subjective opinion, after seeing the movie over a week ago and reading this whole thread, is that I still think it was awesome.

I honestly found the Joker to be frightening. During one of his 'Why so serious?' speeches I was reminded of the nutjob who tortures the cop in Reservoir Dogs. Facing an enemy like this, who is doing his best not necessarily to kill but to hurt and break his opponent, is quite different IMHO from facing an opponent who sees you merely as an obstacle to go through in the course of carrying out their greater plan. It's much more calculating, more personal. Of course, there were plenty of people whom the Joker killed who were just means to an end, but those who got his special attention (like Dent) arguably suffered more.

Others who I've spoken to about the movie have mostly similar positive reactions, though at least one was surprised by the level of violence. The only WTF moment I've had was when a woman in my Kendo class described the movie as 'boring'. Unfortunately I didn't get he chance to ask her why. Maybe she was expecting a comedy?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-03 06:35pm

Allowing The Joker to find out Rachel was a weak point didn't help either. Letting anything like that become known to such a madman is like throwing petrol on a fire.

And as for dissenting voices, most I've known come from those who never saw Begins and expected some camp shit and somehow think that's the only way to do this kind of story. Others won't see such a movie because they think it actually is some lame kiddy geek-fest.

There have been complaints to the BBFC about the 12 rating it got here. Even they admit it's really more a 15 certificate.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-04 01:37pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
havokeff wrote: He blew the fucking building up. He killed them.
No bodies and plenty of time to get out, which you see the other ninja do as he fights. If they didn't vacate, that's their problem. Not saving a whole load of anarchists is better than killing a guy in cold blood.

And anyone who doesn't notice the difference between 35 mm and IMAX isn't just unobservant, they're fucking blind. It's not even in the same ball park as DVD versus Blu-ray.

Did you miss the part where you see ninjas going flying when the building was exloping including the beam falling on one of the guys? "I didn't kill them, I just blew up a building that they all happened to be in, them not getting out in time is their problem." Some got out and some did not. Since the prisoner was tied up and half naked on the floor he probably didn't get out. If he did there is a good chance he was killed by the elements or found by one of the ninjas and killed later.

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-08-04 05:51pm

I loved it. Yeah, just about what everyone else said, but I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

One of my friends who doesn't like anything much said that Two-Face's character sucked, Rachel was a prick who deserved to die, and that Begins was generally better. I just might agree with the first point, if he was supposed to be a villian instead of Dent gone pissy.

Another one of my friends said that it was a pretty fun movie, that Two-Face also sucked, and that Heath Ledger's performance was that of a man with too much time on his hands. Not manical enough.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-08-04 06:02pm

How can you watch the armored car chase and call Ledger's Joker portrayal 'insufficiently maniacal'?

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-08-04 06:04pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:How can you watch the armored car chase and call Ledger's Joker portrayal 'insufficiently maniacal'?

Oh, he agreed that he was all fine in script. But the way Ledger emoted just seemed lazy to him.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-08-04 06:22pm

I wouldn't worry, his friends are doubtless hipster nerd teenagers. I mean, 'Begins is better'? Please.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-04 06:36pm

I'm sorry, but that "friend" is a doofus without a clue. Begins is a good movie, but as with the second ever Star Wars to come out, it is soundly put into second place.

Rachel may not be all that endearing, but calling Harvey shit is hilarious. Maybe he has a whole new term for how fucking bad Two-Face was in Forever.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-05 12:10am

I liked the first one better too.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-05 12:15pm

ArmorPierce wrote:I liked the first one better too.

Why? I honestly can't fathom how that can be, both from the artistic angle and pure numbers one. It's like saying Episode IV is better than V; sure, the first movie got the ball rolling, but the sequel inevitably refines the winning formula (until the second sequel, at least). It's factually untrue and if God existed, he'd write this on the moon to remind everyone.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2008-08-05 12:47pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:I liked the first one better too.
Why? I honestly can't fathom how that can be, both from the artistic angle and pure numbers one. It's like saying Episode IV is better than V; sure, the first movie got the ball rolling, but the sequel inevitably refines the winning formula (until the second sequel, at least). It's factually untrue and if God existed, he'd write this on the moon to remind everyone.

A new hope was better the Empire Strikes Back. Empire was the worst of the three by far. It was uninteresting, the only actually good thing about the movie was the twist at the end.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-05 01:13pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:I liked the first one better too.
Why? I honestly can't fathom how that can be, both from the artistic angle and pure numbers one. It's like saying Episode IV is better than V; sure, the first movie got the ball rolling, but the sequel inevitably refines the winning formula (until the second sequel, at least). It's factually untrue and if God existed, he'd write this on the moon to remind everyone.

mmm I'm not quite sure. Him becoming becoming batman is something I liked. I think part of it had to do that him not killing the joker which led directly to more people getting killed pissed me off. Joker was well played though.

It lost some charm to me I think.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-08-05 01:55pm

Block wrote:A new hope was better the Empire Strikes Back. Empire was the worst of the three by far. It was uninteresting, the only actually good thing about the movie was the twist at the end.

Are you high? A New Hope may have been the phenomenon, but Empire is the movie that made people fall in love with Star Wars.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-05 02:13pm

The origin story is always going to be good and hard to beat, but with TDK, there's more to be seen in how the character develops, given he's more interesting than most comic book stars. Making the most famous and interesting villain part of the sequel keeps it fresh, though given the way minor villains were developed in BB, I doubt it would be as bad had The Joker and Two-Face not been in the sequel.

Still, to each their own. I find the darker story and setpieces in TDK to trump the previous movie's fleshing out of Batman.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2008-08-05 07:47pm

havokeff wrote:
Block wrote:A new hope was better the Empire Strikes Back. Empire was the worst of the three by far. It was uninteresting, the only actually good thing about the movie was the twist at the end.
Are you high? A New Hope may have been the phenomenon, but Empire is the movie that made people fall in love with Star Wars.

Block, I have to agree with havokeff. Empire is largely regarded as a much better movie and the best of the original trilogy. Part of what many like is that Empire has a darker tone to it than the other two films in the OT much like TDK is to BB.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2008-08-05 11:02pm

Death from the Sea wrote:
havokeff wrote:
Block wrote:A new hope was better the Empire Strikes Back. Empire was the worst of the three by far. It was uninteresting, the only actually good thing about the movie was the twist at the end.
Are you high? A New Hope may have been the phenomenon, but Empire is the movie that made people fall in love with Star Wars.
Block, I have to agree with havokeff. Empire is largely regarded as a much better movie and the best of the original trilogy. Part of what many like is that Empire has a darker tone to it than the other two films in the OT much like TDK is to BB.

I've never liked it. It just didn't grab me like the first one did, sorry. As for largely regarded as the much better movie... maybe so, but not by anyone I know who likes the movies so whatever really. Personal preference.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2008-08-06 09:34am

I finally got to see it last night. I thought it was excellent. Dark and disturbing don't begin to describe the movie. I actually felt unclean after watching it, particularly at the boat scene because I know that I'd have pushed the button.

My only complaint is, as others have said Rachel Dawes. I think Katie Holmes played her better in the first movie. This new broad didn't sell it, she didn't make me believe she was a childhood friend and lover of Bruce. She didn't look to me like a tireless idealist that Holmes was in BB.

I think Johnny Depp could pull off the Joker if they do bring him back, but Ledger really made the character his own. Jack Nicholson will always hold a special place for me. Jack was also pretty psychopathic, do you all easily forget his mutilation of Jerry Hall? But you can't seriously compare Ledger to Nicholson as they took a very difficult character in different directions.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-08-06 12:28pm

If I was in the both I would have just jumped out and swam away.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-08-06 12:38pm

ArmorPierce wrote:If I was in the both I would have just jumped out and swam away.

Didn't the Joker explicitly say he'd blow up the boats if anyone tried swimming off on their own?

Block · Post by **Block** » 2008-08-06 12:40pm

General Zod wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:If I was in the both I would have just jumped out and swam away.
Didn't the Joker explicitly say he'd blow up the boats if anyone tried swimming off on their own?

He did indeed.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2008-08-06 03:25pm

Why didn't he have both boats wired to blow up at midnight like he said? It seems rather sloppy of him to do so.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-08-06 03:39pm

Pelranius wrote:Why didn't he have both boats wired to blow up at midnight like he said? It seems rather sloppy of him to do so.

Because the point wasn't to blow them up. The point was to create terror and get people on one of the boats to blow the other guys up instead.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2008-08-06 04:33pm

Pelranius wrote:Why didn't he have both boats wired to blow up at midnight like he said? It seems rather sloppy of him to do so.

He didn't have them wired, he had a detonator; he was going to manually blow them both up, but Batman stopped him.
Remember what he said about preferring killing up-close and personal to using guns? The same probably applies here.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-08-06 04:55pm

I expect he had other plans for if that ferry experiment failed. The whole idea of his chaos was to show that "when the chips are down, these... civilised people, they'll eat each other". Unfortunately for him, those on the ferries that night managed to brave it. I doubt many others would be so sensible (remember the threat to blow up an hospital unless the consultant was killed).