The Dark Knight (GODDAMN SPOILERS)

[CaptainChewbacca]

I guess you missed how over the year, simply having the Bat-signal running 'lets them know he's out there' and causes petty crimes to be abandoned simply based on the CHANCE of facing him?

I really liked that part. Some would-be criminal glanced up and saw the signal, and decided to stay home.

[Stark]

I really liked that part. Some would-be criminal glanced up and saw the signal, and decided to stay home.

Yeah, it was a really effective way of showing that Batman is now a fixture in Gotham, and that everyone knows he's out there - and criminals fear it. Obviously the more serious criminals are less concerned (they've got dogs, lol) but he's now using 'psyops' (what a retarded term) on the entire city simultaneously.

Gordon even says Batman 'often doesn't' show up to the signal, but that he just likes to remind everyone that he's out there.

[Morilore]

I guess you missed how over the year, simply having the Bat-signal running 'lets them know he's out there' and causes petty crimes to be abandoned simply based on the CHANCE of facing him?

I was thinking more of battle tactics, but I actually did miss that.

[Admiral Valdemar]

No doubt a big guy in a black, bulletproof costume who appears and vanishes without a trace is a pretty big deterrent. But just having that fear perpetuated by hearsay amongst the crooks out there is a huge bonus. No one fears the cops because they're mostly bent or have to abide by rules. Batman, however, is beyond that. The tie-in anime stories give a good impression of the way people imagine this vigilante. Like Stark said, it won't put off the bigger fish or psychos, but most crime is petty muggings, burglaries or drug deals. Those guys will think twice if they see that signal. That in itself is useful.

[Havok]

30 million people in one fucking city is fucking nuts. No wonder it is such a fucked up place.

I strongly suspect that's an error; the real Chicago has a population one-tenth of that, and IIRC that specific number onlu counts the people living on the main island, which would give the city a population density of way too fucking much.

This is from Forbes.com, which Mike posted in N&P.

Tokyo, Japan

GDP (2005): $1.19 trillion
GDP (2020): $1.6 trillion
Growth rate: 2%
MasterCard ranking: 3
Population: 35,676,000
Purchasing power(NYC=100): 96%

Tokyo is the world's most populous city by the U.N.'s reckoning, and it has the largest economy. By PricewaterhouseCoopers' projections, Tokyo will still have the largest economy in 2020, though New York will be getting closer. Tokyo's huge size comes at a price: Of the 151 largest economies, its growth is expected to rank at No. 140.

In the DC Universe, I think Gotham is supposed to be it's most populous city. So, the 30million number can certainly hold up.

[Pulp Hero]

No doubt a big guy in a black, bulletproof costume who appears and vanishes without a trace is a pretty big deterrent. But just having that fear perpetuated by hearsay amongst the crooks out there is a huge bonus. No one fears the cops because they're mostly bent or have to abide by rules. Batman, however, is beyond that. The tie-in anime stories give a good impression of the way people imagine this vigilante. Like Stark said, it won't put off the bigger fish or psychos, but most crime is petty muggings, burglaries or drug deals. Those guys will think twice if they see that signal. That in itself is useful.

Yes, the fist "Gotham Knight" short story shows an accurate view of how urban legends grow.

Also at the end of TDK, Batman has now "killed" Harvey Dent and a number of other people. That should put the fear into people who knew about his "no killing rule."

[Jim Raynor]

30 million people in one fucking city is fucking nuts. No wonder it is such a fucked up place.

I strongly suspect that's an error; the real Chicago has a population one-tenth of that, and IIRC that specific number onlu counts the people living on the main island, which would give the city a population density of way too fucking much.

This is from Forbes.com, which Mike posted in N&P.

Tokyo, Japan

GDP (2005): $1.19 trillion
GDP (2020): $1.6 trillion
Growth rate: 2%
MasterCard ranking: 3
Population: 35,676,000
Purchasing power(NYC=100): 96%

Tokyo is the world's most populous city by the U.N.'s reckoning, and it has the largest economy. By PricewaterhouseCoopers' projections, Tokyo will still have the largest economy in 2020, though New York will be getting closer. Tokyo's huge size comes at a price: Of the 151 largest economies, its growth is expected to rank at No. 140.

In the DC Universe, I think Gotham is supposed to be it's most populous city. So, the 30million number can certainly hold up.

I think those population stats include everybody in the surrounding metropolitan area as well. In the same list, New York was stated to have a population of over 12 million.

Maybe TDK was using the same method. Maybe we just shouldn't take that line of dialogue so literally. Or maybe Gotham really was intended to be that freaking big.

[Mr. T]

Good as those posters are, they wouldn't work. Bringing in The Joker's comic relief accomplice isn't going to work. The Riddler sucks and Catwoman is hilarious.

There's a world of difference between a psycho with a love of facepaint covering his scars and a guy with severe burns and some quite simply bizarre people playing dress-up and causing mayhem in comical ways.

I don't know. Harley Quinn wouldn't work the way she's portrayed in the animated series obviously, but I think with a bit of tweaking she could make for a good character. In real life, after a terrorist attack people are always worried about "copy-cat" attacks and the Joker must be a legend on par with Batman in Gotham city. It makes sense for someone to come along and imitate him and his terrorist tactics.

[Lord Revan]

Good as those posters are, they wouldn't work. Bringing in The Joker's comic relief accomplice isn't going to work. The Riddler sucks and Catwoman is hilarious.

There's a world of difference between a psycho with a love of facepaint covering his scars and a guy with severe burns and some quite simply bizarre people playing dress-up and causing mayhem in comical ways.

I don't know. Harley Quinn wouldn't work the way she's portrayed in the animated series obviously, but I think with a bit of tweaking she could make for a good character. In real life, after a terrorist attack people are always worried about "copy-cat" attacks and the Joker must be a legend on par with Batman in Gotham city. It makes sense for someone to come along and imitate him and his terrorist tactics.

isn't she suppose to be as insane as the Joker?

that could easily explain her rather odd behavoir (after humans don't behave logically)

[2000AD]

Also at the end of TDK, Batman has now "killed" Harvey Dent and a number of other people. That should put the fear into people who knew about his "no killing rule."

I thought he was copping to the people Dent killed and the Joker was going to get the blame for killing Dent (by blowing up his hospital).

That way he looks to have been going for revenge against the people who killed Rachael (and Dent, kinda).

Since Gordon covered up that Dent was missing from the hospital it gives the authorities a perfect cover for Dent to have been killed there. It also means that from the publics point of view there's absolutely no reason for Batman to kill Dent. As a guy that killed a few corrupt cops and mobsters Batman is now a vigilante that went too far for the police to continue ignoring, he still retains some public affection as a man trying to clean up the town. If he appears to have killed Dent for no reson that would turn him into an out and out villain in the public's eye.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It could be done, Harley I mean, but I just don't know if Nolan would want a retread. Using Dent again, yeah: topping the Joker? Eh, probably not.

And I don't see the thirty million population as being hard to swallow if accepting suburbs and the city being far denser and with a larger footprint than modern US cities.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Since Gordon covered up that Dent was missing from the hospital it gives the authorities a perfect cover for Dent to have been killed there. It also means that from the publics point of view there's absolutely no reason for Batman to kill Dent. As a guy that killed a few corrupt cops and mobsters Batman is now a vigilante that went too far for the police to continue ignoring, he still retains some public affection as a man trying to clean up the town. If he appears to have killed Dent for no reson that would turn him into an out and out villain in the public's eye.

The problem is, Joker is in custody. Since he actually DIDN'T kill the people Dent did, he could pretty easily defend himself in a court of law. Heck, he's one of the few people who knows what happened to Harvey.

Batman, on the other hand, can take the blame because he won't ever be caught. Did you listen to Jim Gordon's monologue at the end? They will chase him because they have to, and because he can take it. Batman has to be to blame for the deaths because nobody else can be. They may pass off Dent's death as an accident or complications due to his injuries, but every one of Dent's kills lands on Batman.

[2000AD]

The problem is, Joker is in custody. Since he actually DIDN'T kill the people Dent did, he could pretty easily defend himself in a court of law. Heck, he's one of the few people who knows what happened to Harvey.

Batman, on the other hand, can take the blame because he won't ever be caught. Did you listen to Jim Gordon's monologue at the end? They will chase him because they have to, and because he can take it. Batman has to be to blame for the deaths because nobody else can be. They may pass off Dent's death as an accident or complications due to his injuries, but every one of Dent's kills lands on Batman.

I know all the people Dent killed are being blamed on Batman, I said that in my post, I was saying I didn't think he was taking the blame for Dent's death like Pulp Hero was saying.

[Pulp Hero]

I know all the people Dent killed are being blamed on Batman, I said that in my post, I was saying I didn't think he was taking the blame for Dent's death like Pulp Hero was saying.

Semantics. The point of my post was that criminals now "know" that Batman kills people.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Would that make him more feared by the crime underworld or the average citizen? I doubt many would want to be locked up in Arkham, so death would almost be better. The public, though, now know this vigilante is a lethal threat and one not even the GPD can control now.

[General Zod]

Would that make him more feared by the crime underworld or the average citizen? I doubt many would want to be locked up in Arkham, so death would almost be better. The public, though, now know this vigilante is a lethal threat and one not even the GPD can control now.

Did they retcon Arkham in the Nolan-verse Batman flicks? I'm fairly sure it's just for the criminally insane, so "vanilla" offenders should still just get sent to the ordinary prison.

[Shroom Man 777]

Dudes. what the hell is up with The Dark Knight and why is it earning so bloody much? Is it THAT AWESOME?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Dudes. what the hell is up with The Dark Knight and why is it earning so bloody much? Is it THAT AWESOME?

Have you SEEN it?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Edit:

The greatest movie in the history of the universe.

[Crazedwraith]

Well, finally saw "The Dark Knight" after the long long wait, and I can't help feeling some what underwhelmed. In this case, I think 'spoilers' are well named.

Over the last couple of weeks, in the run up to seeing I've watched "Batman Begins","Batman: Gotham Knight" and "Batman Beyond: The Return Of The Joker" to be prepared. On thing I've noticed about those titles in comparison with Dark Knight is that those tales were actually about Batman By Comparison this film is either "Joker: The Movie" or "Two-Face: The Life and Times of Harvey Dent"

The film predominantly centres itself of Heath Ledger's Joker. And I really can't agree with people who think Ledger should win an Oscar for his performance. The Joker was just Batshit crazy, i don't think it's that hard to pull off. Plus that lisp thing he did with his tongue was really weird.

Instead of showing things happening; most of the character's deeper stuff were simply blatantly told to the audience through Soliloquies.

In the end the chemistry between the cast present in Begins between Batman and variously Fox, Gordon and Alfred just didn't seem to be there. Likewise there was nothing between Batman and Joker like there was between him and Ra's Al Ghul.

I seem to recall reading people saying that first comic book movies often fall short due to having to tell the origin but in the end, that's more or less the most interesting part of some superheroes: why they do what they do.

As I said before because they felt the origin had been dealt with in the first film I didn't really feel this was a film about Batman. It merely had him in it.

In the end: It just wasn't that fun to watch. I'd rather have seen Iron Man for the third time.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, all of the events in the movie have direct effects on Batman's character and his actions have effects on other people as well. It's not just about him, it's about the rest of Gotham as well. Through the Joker, you see how the whole situation is fucking over the people of Gotham, through Gordon you can see what's up with the GCPD, and through Harvey Dent you can see how a lot of their hopes and dreams for a better place end up going down the proverbial shitter.

Would you rather have Batman/Bruce Wayne's stuff told through (Spiderman-style) soliloquies? I thought how he was forced to act through the events of the movie was pretty good character development, rather than doing character development through cringe-worthy (Spiderman-style) dialog.

We already had Batman musing and brooding in Begins. Now it's time for some action, a LOT of it. Not just action in a Moby sense, but action in a... well, in a greater-than-explosions sense! We already know why he does what he does, so The Dark Knight goes beyond that and shows us something else entirely.

Okay, it doesn't focus solely on Batman - but what's wrong with focusing on the effects of his actions? The consequences - madmangs blowing shit up, good guys getting their faces burned off and going nuts, the entire town panicking in fear, and the good guys barely managing to keep up with everything. I rather liked it because of that.

Bleh. WATCH IT AGAIN

Dudes. what the hell is up with The Dark Knight and why is it earning so bloody much? Is it THAT AWESOME?

Have you SEEN it?

I have! TWICE!

Fuck it, I even have the Begins/Dark Knight soundtrack playing in my head for DAYS! I mean, if I suddenly snap, I might end up putting on Bats' hoarse growly voice and going "WHERE IS SHE?!" or "SWEAR TO ME!"

But, holy shit. Goddamn! I can't believe it's totally kicking ass in the box office so much! I mean, I find it hard to believe only Titanic is big enough to stand in the way of TDK.

[Pelranius]

For the ferry bombs, I was expecting that if one of the people on either boat had blown up the other boat, their boat was going to follow in five seconds or something. Sounds like the Joker's idea of fun.

[Death from the Sea]

Would that make him more feared by the crime underworld or the average citizen? I doubt many would want to be locked up in Arkham, so death would almost be better. The public, though, now know this vigilante is a lethal threat and one not even the GPD can control now.

Did they retcon Arkham in the Nolan-verse Batman flicks? I'm fairly sure it's just for the criminally insane, so "vanilla" offenders should still just get sent to the ordinary prison.

it appeared to be just crazies that happen to be criminals in Batman Begins... as Crane (Scarecrow) was using his position as a doctor to get flunkies for Falcone out of prison and transferred to Arkham and deemed unfit for trial.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Well, finally saw "The Dark Knight" after the long long wait, and I can't help feeling some what underwhelmed. In this case, I think 'spoilers' are well named.

Over the last couple of weeks, in the run up to seeing I've watched "Batman Begins","Batman: Gotham Knight" and "Batman Beyond: The Return Of The Joker" to be prepared. On thing I've noticed about those titles in comparison with Dark Knight is that those tales were actually about Batman By Comparison this film is either "Joker: The Movie" or "Two-Face: The Life and Times of Harvey Dent"

The film predominantly centres itself of Heath Ledger's Joker. And I really can't agree with people who think Ledger should win an Oscar for his performance. The Joker was just Batshit crazy, i don't think it's that hard to pull off. Plus that lisp thing he did with his tongue was really weird.

Instead of showing things happening; most of the character's deeper stuff were simply blatantly told to the audience through Soliloquies.

In the end the chemistry between the cast present in Begins between Batman and variously Fox, Gordon and Alfred just didn't seem to be there. Likewise there was nothing between Batman and Joker like there was between him and Ra's Al Ghul.

I seem to recall reading people saying that first comic book movies often fall short due to having to tell the origin but in the end, that's more or less the most interesting part of some superheroes: why they do what they do.

As I said before because they felt the origin had been dealt with in the first film I didn't really feel this was a film about Batman. It merely had him in it.

In the end: It just wasn't that fun to watch. I'd rather have seen Iron Man for the third time.

And? This negates the movie being cinematic excellence because Batman isn't the sole focus which we already had with BB?

[Shroom Man 777]

Seriously, I think the movie did things awesomely precisely by dealing with the broad implications of Batman's action. The movie is awesome because it's MORE than just Batman, but the consequences of his actions and shit.

It's "realistic" in that way.