Vympel wrote:Let's not clog the thread with tangents like this- the issue has been discussed and especially with the release of the NeGD her idiotic retcon has been consigned to the dustbin. Let's save the thread for new developments.
Sorry, I'm a little out of the loop.. so the New Essential Guide to Droids has blown her low droid numbers out of the water? Excellent.
What sort of numbers exactly does the NeGD give for the CIS army?
Based on what is written in the NEgD, Ender calculated here that it supports 17.6 quintillion droids.
There's a post in it where Sienar states that the 3 thousand droids Tarkin gives him might be able to conquer a planet....... if it was in the dark age of technology but it won't be able to control it.
He also makes reference to how the Trade Federation, with its immensely larger force was unable to control Naboo. As such, it was absurd that Tarkin could accept such a force to control Sekot.
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First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
Nice find.
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Oh, about 3 million, all right.. per grand army. Seconded, great find.
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VT-16 wrote:Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.
Heh. Heheheh... HA! HAHAHA!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sorry. That was just... too funny.
No amount of evidence will ever end this debate. Certain people will cling to their tiny numbers until the end of civilization and beyond.
Even if George Lucas himself came out and made a public announcement explicitly saying "By the end of the Clone Wars, there were a quintillion* clones of Jango Fett in action" people would still cling to their tiny numbers. I think I understand this now.
*This is a totally arbitrary large number.
Wookieepedia:
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First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
Ender, I bow my head. That's beautiful indeed. Bring this to the fight.
First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
You have to admire Curtis Saxton's foresight.
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First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
[Fandawhorian]Most of theses grand armies were normal troops, the clones were superheroes in the war! Besides, the ICS was retconned away by Odds anway! And uh, Palpatine was playing chess![/Fandawhorian]
While this is nice, I don't see it changing a thing in the minds of these retards. You can just add it to the pile of sources which refute Traviss's crap, but which they conveniently ignore. These are the same people who think the war still makes sense when the CIS has more capital ships than the Republic has clones, or that the Jedi would willingly help Palpatine commit his fraud.
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With this, I84 would simply show a standard army-unit on a greater, non-defined scale. We wouldn't even need to bitch about it, even if they do. They can't do anything about it either way. :P
So, it's Division<Army<Army Group<Grand Army, is it? I like it. I like it a lot.
Now all one needs is to get a Grand Army Group mentioned somewhere.
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Assuming 10,000 Jedi knights and that each of them commands a Grand Army, that would give 30 billion Clone Troopers. Hmm, still too low, but it's better than 3 million.
Is it stated that the Jedi were at the head of every army? Or only stationed with forces in hotspots?
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Varies. Anakin and Obi-Wan commanded scores or hundreds of assault ships on the assault in Muunilist (Essential Chronology and CW micro series), whereas other Jedi commanded smaller but still substantial contingents (Mace Windu on Dantooine and Kit Fisto on Mon Calamari.)
Dark Lord had multiple Jedi (masters and such) in a single location, and of course Shatterpoint has examples of certain Jedi acting as agitators (Depa Billaba.)
In ROTS we typically see a single Jedi commanding when order 66 was given (Dark Lord: specifies at least 200 locations when O66 was executed, and it is specualted by another Jedi that upwards of 500 may exist.) And there is, of course Kashyyk.
In general, we might assume no more than a handful of Jedi under most cases, and single/double Jedi (a Knight/Master and Padawan, typically) being the norm.
So... The Jedi were at the head of formations as needed, but not at the head of all formations?
“There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind who think it’s perfectly reasonable to strip-search a 13-year-old girl suspected of bringing ibuprofen to school, and the kind who think those people should be kept as far away from children as possible … Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between drug warriors and child molesters.” - Jacob Sullum[/size][/align]
Vohu Manah wrote:So... The Jedi were at the head of formations as needed, but not at the head of all formations?
Essentially. There were still non-Jedi admirals and task force commanders, and there may have even been Clone generals (although I'm not sure of that).
VT-16 wrote:Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.
Exact quote:
Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections, page 3 wrote:
The teetering governmnet of the Galactic Republic desperately spends its waning wealth on grand armies and fleets to defend its territorial unity.
No amount of evidence will ever end this debate. Certain people will cling to their tiny numbers until the end of civilization and beyond.
Even if George Lucas himself came out and made a public announcement explicitly saying "By the end of the Clone Wars, there were a quintillion* clones of Jango Fett in action" people would still cling to their tiny numbers. I think I understand this now.
The funny thing is he basically has - he was vehement in denying comparisons to Iraq, yet what do people cite to justify it?
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
Think about how long it took to convince people that the Executor was far more than 5 times as long as an ISD, even when any idiot could simply watch TESB and see that fact confirmed beyond any doubt. The evidence in that case was positively overwhelming, and there was literally no canon evidence whatsoever to contradict it, and yet that particular piece of WEG-inspired stupidity persisted for more than a decade. In some circles, debate persists to this day.
Stupidity is stubborn. Traviss' "3 million" bullshit will persist for a long time, just as the idiotic "5 mile SSD" did.
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What exactly happened to all of the people arguing for the five mile SSD? Are there still some who cling to that notion?
But yeah, from what I've read in here this little issue isn't going away for awhile.
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Balrog wrote:What exactly happened to all of the people arguing for the five mile SSD? Are there still some who cling to that notion?
But yeah, from what I've read in here this little issue isn't going away for awhile.
McEwok comes to mind...
Oh definitely. Every single noob to the TF.N thinks the Executor is 8 klicks long. After a vociferous debate, with McEwok joins in the fun, then 19klicks is enforced.
First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.
Definately more then 3 million then.
You have to admire Curtis Saxton's foresight.
Absolutely, I really like this:
Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections, page 3 wrote:The teetering government of the Galactic Republic desperately spends its waning wealth on grand armies and fleets to defend its territorial unity.
Except for Wookieepedia, have anyone used the quote elsewhere?
