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Maybe the sports fans are just nerds in denial too?

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Maybe the sports fans are just nerds in denial too?

Even among sports fans, you have the guys who carefully analyze plays and statistics (the bookworms), and the idiots who paint the team colours on their chests and then try to get noticed by the TV cameras (the dorks).

Darth Wong wrote:

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Maybe the sports fans are just nerds in denial too?

Even among sports fans, you have the guys who carefully analyze plays and statistics (the bookworms), and the idiots who paint the team colours on their chests and then try to get noticed by the TV cameras (the dorks).

I knew a kid in college who was one of those guys. He'd paint himself blue and white for every basketball game. He weighed about 300lbs too. Got on Sportscenter once.

Of course, the guy also could give you the stats on every player who's ever played for 'Nova since the 1970s, and every year he published an updated database on the entire team. Dude was hardcore.

Star-Blighter wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:

Star-Blighter wrote:Does being a "fairly" well read gun-nut make me a bookworm? If so then I proudly wear the title for all others who love learning about projectile weapons and their history. Not that I know a whole shitload about the subject, but I can easily call bullshit when some poser tries to talk about my ass-cappers as if they know something about them when they really haven't even got a clue.

Yes it does *points at self*

So what guns do you want to own?

Authentic AKs, MP 40, Mauser broomhandle... The list goes on but I do have few of my own:

12 gauge Ithica break-barrel, two Remington Express pumps (12 gauge also), Remington 700 .308, three .22 LRs for light target shooting and pest control.

Pistols include: Colt .44 WCF Sheriff's Model, a .22 maxi mag (can't remember what its called but thats the ammo it takes), and a Browing .25 automatic I keep in a croutch holster for when I go to the can away from home (I love this little fucker, so easy to reach in and pull it, then POP-POP-POP-POP-POP. Five rounds in the gut of the poor bastard who thought I'd be easy pickings on the john...).



I've shown you mine, would you due me the honor of showing me yours (no pressure, lots of gun enthusiest don't own much, its the passion that counts)?

I have absolutely nothing, actually. I do want an AK.

Captain Tycho's becoming quite the neighborhood military power, though.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:I have absolutely nothing, actually. I do want an AK.

Captain Tycho's becoming quite the neighborhood military power, though.

No worries, and a good choice. A few weeks ago I went to the range with my friend and he brought his AR 15. The fucking thing jammed after the first shot and the bolt return wouldn't lock forward all the way. Told him not to fire another shot till we got the bugs out of it. Finally had to take a screwdriver wrapped with a cleaning cloth to get the god-damned bolt to return properly, and yes it was well oiled and maintainenced before firing. the ejection port is also too small and doesn't take kindly to removing misfired rounds. I would recomend anyone purchasing one to get a much heavier return spring, and tinker with it a bit before firing. I was sorely dissapointed with Eugene Stoner that day...

Spacebeard wrote:Out of curiosity, were you only friendly with them inside school, or did they also get invited to your parties? That's what I'd consider the litmus test for popularity. On another note, it always seemed to me that certain groups of dork-types were far more insular and openly scornful of outsiders than the "popular" set ever was. As we can see, some of them grow up and carry scorn for anyone outside their little clique onto the Internet.

Our parties? We didn't get to have hardly any thanks to the antics of assholes in previous classes. Yes, they got invited to the ones I attended. The thing is, there were others in my peer group I couldn't stand and vice versa. That's one of the things people from John Hughesville never grasp. Asshole alpha males get along with asshole bookworms better than with regular alpha males. I stayed pretty tight with my rat pack even after I had to give up sports.

A lot of the dork stuff is just self-loathing and a kind of reverse snobbery.

Sports fans, in my experience, are always conducting analysis; I imagine that they would find the notion that it's okay to dress up in a replica uniform but "taking it too far" to do a play-by-play analysis of the last game totally alien.

There's only one excuse among sports nuts for dressing up in costumes or body paint or whatever, and talking out of your ass: Large amounts of grain alcohol and beer. If you're not drinking heavily and start throwing around stats without backing them up, your are subjected to verbal abuse that makes anything here seem like kid's play.

RedImperator wrote:Indeed, the most fanatical sports fans have committed reams of numbers to memory and obscessively watch analysis shows which break down film of games frame by frame. Ever watch Ron Jaworski on NFL Countdown? His segment involves him literally looking at a few plays frame by frame, stopping at critical moments to highlight the position of the players on the field. How that's any less dorky that freezing a Star Wars DVD to measure a ship is beyond me. It's curious that certain kinds of nerd snobs have less respect for careful analysis of entertainment as a hobby than the supposed enemy, sports fans.

Ron Jaworski has been doing breakdowns on film and video since he was in high school if not earlier -in his case that would mean since about the time Lyndon Johnson was President. That's the job of any QB, especially one playing in a True West Coast system (Sid Gillman and Jack Faulkner were his QB coaches).

Since you mention ESPN, on one of their shows -Pardon the Interruption- they have a fact checker to look up the numbers when a pundit mouths off and if he's wrong, they bust his balls for it. If only this kind of double-checking were used in other forums of opinion! On most other sports shows they will pounce on you like a cat on a mouse for pulling numbers out of your ass.

RedImperator wrote:Of course, the guy also could give you the stats on every player who's ever played for 'Nova since the 1970s, and every year he published an updated database on the entire team. Dude was hardcore.

I've got him beat. When I was 9 my sports idol was John Jefferson. Not only did I know every stat game to game, not only did I give myself bruised ribs trying to catch a ball outstretched in a horizontal leap with my body parallel to the ground (like he did in this famous SI photo),


not only did I wear goggles like he did,


but when I got a chance to meet him and his teammate Charlie Joiner (memorized his numbers, too), I got them to explain which number corresponded to which receiver and which pass pattern -something I remember to this day.

Bookworm all the way. I'm 25, you won't catch me fucking around with dolls and action figures unless I'm at an SG-14 meet helping to wipe out a horde of Jaffa with minimal losses and tactical superiority.

Even as a 'liking to read' term, it indicates a gulf in Australia. Many times my friends and I have met some people while talking about a book we've recently read, and the first question isn't 'what book are you talking about' or 'who is it written by', but 'do you read books'. People seem faintly incredulous that anybody reads books that aren't on morning television like Memoires of a Geisha or something. And the fact that I have a shit chipboard bookcase loaded with over a thousand dollars worth of books is a major culture shock.

In highschool, I drank and fucked my way through with little study, and got middling-high results. I got into engineering, but I didn't study much (if at all) and simply relied on the low level of knowledge required and my own previous knowledge to get by. Best study moments? Tutoring girls in maths. Yeah, that's right.

Having read since I was very young, and also considering I considered books to be good reference material since I was young, I'd consider myself a bookworm. In fact, I'm trying to become good enough at storytelling with words to create some myself.

I've owned a few Transformers during my life, though growing up where and how I did, I was never able to aquire many. I got my last Transformer toy (Cyclonus, I believe it was - at the time, I thought he was cooler as a character than Galvatron) around the time the movie first came out, and I haven't collected any since. I don't have any costumes, figurines, comics (Well, I do have the Sandman collection, but apart from that, no), or even models of ships.

I simply don't collect any of them because I'm unable to create a good story with props - the props would be scaffolding at best for an idea or story in my case, and stifling at worst.

I have more than a few RPG game books of varying types, as they tend to give me good ideas, as well as being fun to play in some cases. However, that would be the only "collection" of any sort I could cite, other than the collection of cigarettes in my car's ashtray, but that membership has a rather high turnover rate.

I am one of those weird people, the ones who have great ideas, but yet can't write it out. Then I am one of the most popular at school (yes, I am still in high school for those who had not known yet) but keep to them self. One of those who has the reputation of being smart while not knowing why. One of those who can read a thousand page a day yet can not write essays for shit.

I am a book worm. Yes sir I am.

Star-Blighter wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:

Star-Blighter wrote:Does being a "fairly" well read gun-nut make me a bookworm? If so then I proudly wear the title for all others who love learning about projectile weapons and their history. Not that I know a whole shitload about the subject, but I can easily call bullshit when some poser tries to talk about my ass-cappers as if they know something about them when they really haven't even got a clue.

Yes it does *points at self*

So what guns do you want to own?

Authentic AKs, MP 40, Mauser broomhandle... The list goes on but I do have few of my own:

12 gauge Ithica break-barrel, two Remington Express pumps (12 gauge also), Remington 700 .308, three .22 LRs for light target shooting and pest control.

Pistols include: Colt .44 WCF Sheriff's Model, a .22 maxi mag (can't remember what its called but thats the ammo it takes), and a Browing .25 automatic I keep in a croutch holster for when I go to the can away from home (I love this little fucker, so easy to reach in and pull it, then POP-POP-POP-POP-POP. Five rounds in the gut of the poor bastard who thought I'd be easy pickings on the john...).

You've got one of those little baby Brownings in .25 ACP? I have one, (more accurately, my mother has one. I just detail-stripped it, cleaned it, and exhaustively test-fired it before returning it to her; after it had been sitting, fully-loaded, in a lunchbag for 30 years) from the mid to late 1950s. It seems to be at it's most reliable with Winchester's expanding-point load. Certainly one of the least accurate handguns I've ever shot, though.

Star-Blighter wrote: No worries, and a good choice. A few weeks ago I went to the range with my friend and he brought his AR 15. The fucking thing jammed after the first shot and the bolt return wouldn't lock forward all the way. Told him not to fire another shot till we got the bugs out of it. Finally had to take a screwdriver wrapped with a cleaning cloth to get the god-damned bolt to return properly, and yes it was well oiled and maintainenced before firing. the ejection port is also too small and doesn't take kindly to removing misfired rounds. I would recomend anyone purchasing one to get a much heavier return spring, and tinker with it a bit before firing. I was sorely dissapointed with Eugene Stoner that day...

You and anyone else who has had to maintain one in the field. If your friend is still having problems, I might be able to help with a diagnosis via email. From what you've written it sounds like maybe a bolt-override or a failure to extract or eject. Which could be anything from bent magazine feed lips to a broken extractor hook or missing ejector spring. The other major failure point is the locking lugs in the chamber, if those get fowled up you can kiss positive bolt engagement goodbye. One has to be careful with replacing recoil springs, it is possible to go too heavy and screw up your cycle of operations that way. An in tune AR should kick out missfired rounds simply by racking back the charging handle all the way back, (be sure to observe the chamber for positive ejection) then letting the bolt go foward to chamber a new round. If your upper comes with it, slap the bolt assist to ensure your lugs are fully seated, and try again.


Anyway, on subject, I'd definately call myself a bookworm, my only dorky tendancies being miniatures wargaming and roleplaying. Although my bookiness is more focused on History and Military Science (as well as Science Fiction of course) rather than a hard science with lots of math. I'm not afraid of numbers, its just that after algebra came so easily to me, trig and calculus just seemed... unnatural, and since a proper study of science requires the latter.... But history, that's my subject.

You know now that I think about it, it was miniatures wargamming that brought me here. On theminiaturespage.net someone posted on the forum asking if anyone had any ideas about the relative power of Federation and Galactic Empire starships, the next three posts or so... links to SD.net. I was quite gratified to find a site with hard numbers to back up my gut feeling about a star destoyer mopping the floor with pansy trek ships.

Definately a bookworm here. I have a massive amount of books in my possession, I buy textbooks on subjects I'm interested in for fun and I love technical analysis. I'm also going for an Honours BSC in Physics.

If that doesn't make me a bookworm I don't know what else can.

Elfdart wrote:Since you mention ESPN, on one of their shows -Pardon the Interruption- they have a fact checker to look up the numbers when a pundit mouths off and if he's wrong, they bust his balls for it. If only this kind of double-checking were used in other forums of opinion! On most other sports shows they will pounce on you like a cat on a mouse for pulling numbers out of your ass.

Someone around here once said that the political reporters ought to watch the sports reporters and take notes, because no coach or athlete could ever get away with the kind of bullshit politicians routinely pull in news conferences or on talk shows. It might have been Bill Conlin, one of the legendary curmudgeons in the Philadelphia sports press and a guy I'd love to see with his teeth Tony Snow's leg, but don't hold me to that.

I'm a textbook bookworm. It got so bad that I had a relative complain about that I was even reading the milk packages. I would say I'm a more balanced person nowadays, but I grew up in a remote area with seldom anything else to do but read, or go outside to play alone.

Only yesterday did I earn respect of people for being analytical and organized. Next week I get the results from an extensive test I took recently, and I expect high marks. Plus, of course, some girls like intelligent guys (pretty ones too!). On the whole I wouldn't trade my nerdishness for being one of the cool kids. We win out in the long run.

I don't think that collecting figures or dressing up for con automatically makes you a dork, more like the hybrid already mentioned; people are complex, and we have a lot of things inside us. It boils down to what you identify yourself with, which in prolongation makes you one of the nerds, or the dorks. I think most of us belong to one or another because of interests and not actively choosing a group, unlike the cool kids, which is a group many admire and would like to be part of. In fact, that's probably what dorks are; wannabe cool kids. /end rant since I have to run.

RedImperator wrote:Someone around here once said that the political reporters ought to watch the sports reporters and take notes, because no coach or athlete could ever get away with the kind of bullshit politicians routinely pull in news conferences or on talk shows. It might have been Bill Conlin, one of the legendary curmudgeons in the Philadelphia sports press and a guy I'd love to see with his teeth Tony Snow's leg, but don't hold me to that.

Howard Cosell lobbied ABC News like mad for the lead anchor job after Harry Reasoner left and again when Frank Reynolds died. Roone Arledge said essentially NO FUCKING WAY! One reason is that ABC Sports was a moneymaker (mainly because of Cosell and Monday Night Football) while the news division lost money. The other main reason was that Cosell was like a Grand Inquisitor when interviewing people. Compare that to Ted Koppel's 30-year career of leaving hickeys on Henry Kissinger's ass.

True, sportswriter have their darlings (Cosell and Don Shula must have had a dazzling honeymoon) but most don't pussy out in interviews. They can't because if they do, their cred is shot to shit. Another reason is that sports reporters by and large aren't scared shitless of losing access. They actually WORK for their stories. Imagine that.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:You've got one of those little baby Brownings in .25 ACP? I have one, (more accurately, my mother has one. I just detail-stripped it, cleaned it, and exhaustively test-fired it before returning it to her; after it had been sitting, fully-loaded, in a lunchbag for 30 years) from the mid to late 1950s. It seems to be at it's most reliable with Winchester's expanding-point load. Certainly one of the least accurate handguns I've ever shot, though.

Yep, I wouldn't use it for anything beyond ten or twelve feet. Its small size and reliability is why I favor it for close encounters, as no one wants to get a clip emptied into them from only a few feet away.

GunDoctor wrote:You and anyone else who has had to maintain one in the field. If your friend is still having problems, I might be able to help with a diagnosis via email. From what you've written it sounds like maybe a bolt-override or a failure to extract or eject. Which could be anything from bent magazine feed lips to a broken extractor hook or missing ejector spring. The other major failure point is the locking lugs in the chamber, if those get fowled up you can kiss positive bolt engagement goodbye. One has to be careful with replacing recoil springs, it is possible to go too heavy and screw up your cycle of operations that way. An in tune AR should kick out missfired rounds simply by racking back the charging handle all the way back, (be sure to observe the chamber for positive ejection) then letting the bolt go foward to chamber a new round. If your upper comes with it, slap the bolt assist to ensure your lugs are fully seated, and try again.

It sounds like it may indeed be the locking lugs. It had alot of trouble ejecting the spent round after firing and I agree that too heavy a spring make cycling round ejection a major pain. I'll have to talk to him about getting replacements as I don't consider the weapon as being safe to fire even after thorough cleaning and reoiling. the bolt deffinatly does not go forward enough to be considered fully engaged as I can see a visible (if small) gap between the forward bolt assembly and the chamber edge. I don't have much familliarity with the AR15/M4 "shorty" setup he has so I can't really make the call on the exact problem, I simply don't know enough about the setup to really assist properly.

I'll get his Email addy for you in a couple days. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.

I suppose I'm a bookworm, though I would not immediately dismiss the idea of cosplaying as Cthulhu....

*hastily hides his Star Trek paraphernalia*
Um-I suck at math, but can I be a book worm on account on always having read much?

Batman wrote:*hastily hides his Star Trek paraphernalia*
Um-I suck at math, but can I be a book worm on account on always having read much?

I'm horrible at math; no worries there. And reading over this some more I also don't think that role-playing games are qualification for 'dork' either. RPG-ing is at least a form of social interaction while total dorks have a hard time with that process, IMO.

I think one of the reasons dorks and bookworms get lumped together so easily in the high school culture (or, that's the way it was Back In The Day; it's been awhile since my HS days) is because on the surface the two may look a lot alike and in the shallow world of High School it is appearances that count most.

Once out of that environment, the "operators vs posers" distinction becomes more clear. There are successful jocks who actually do learn things like teamwork and winning spirit and go on to become captains of industry and community leaders like their bookworm counterparts. The unsuccessful ones fall to the wayside, never get past the one good pass they threw in High School and spend the rest of their lives swilling beer in a trailer park watching Jerry Springer.

I guess I’m in the same camp as Batman. I suck at math but I love to read.

Star-Blighter wrote:It sounds like it may indeed be the locking lugs. It had alot of trouble ejecting the spent round after firing and I agree that too heavy a spring make cycling round ejection a major pain. I'll have to talk to him about getting replacements as I don't consider the weapon as being safe to fire even after thorough cleaning and reoiling. the bolt deffinatly does not go forward enough to be considered fully engaged as I can see a visible (if small) gap between the forward bolt assembly and the chamber edge. I don't have much familliarity with the AR15/M4 "shorty" setup he has so I can't really make the call on the exact problem, I simply don't know enough about the setup to really assist properly.

I'll get his Email addy for you in a couple days. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.

Oh shit, have your friend remove the bolt carrier from the upper reciever and visually inspect both the carrier key and the gas tube inside the upper. The carrier key is the tubular fixture on the top of the bolt carrier (held on by two machine screws that have been staked in); the gas tube is the shiny aluminum tube that sticks out maybe an inch or so into the the inside of the upper, above the chamber. During operation the carrier key fits over the gas tube; when a round is fired, gas from the combusting powder is bled of from the barrel and channeled back down that small aluminum tube to the carrier key which directs it into the bolt carrier where it acts upon the bolt to impart a rearward movement which, because of the cam pin, turns the bolt (unlocking it), allowing recoil to take over and finish the cycle of operations.

Anyway, if either the carrier key and/or the gas tube are out of spec (not round, crushed, etc) then you'll have the problems you just described; the carrier key wont go all the way down the length of the gas tube, getting stuck before the locking lugs have engaged, and after, the two parts will be stuck together, making retracting the bolt a pain.

One more for the Bad-Math Bookworm Brigade here.

I can understand the desire to costume. If I had the slightest talent in that area, I'd probably consider it fun. Lacking said talent, I admire those who have it from afar, and cower from those who mistakenly believe they have it from much further afar.

Oh, I'd like to amend my earlier post to say that I'm a Bad-Math Bookworm (excellent term there).

Bookworm, if it really is that. I've seen the depths and really the costume bit, while interesting, is just at times...well men dressing up as hairy women is fucking ugly. If you're going to do something do it well, not this half assed shit.

And yes, I know the math...I'm lazy.