Bush: Me and god are buddies.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-10-07 05:24pm

Surlethe wrote:That's a non-sequitur; one doesn't necessarily have to be hearing voices to think one is obeying God. As I explained above, your average evangelical fundie is praying, and he'll interpret his own feelings during prayer as God speaking to him.

Reminds me of a Susan B. Anthony quote. "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-10-07 08:41pm

Surlethe wrote: That's a non-sequitur; one doesn't necessarily have to be hearing voices to think one is obeying God. As I explained above, your average evangelical fundie is praying, and he'll interpret his own feelings during prayer as God speaking to him.

I understand that. However, the stories says Bush was told by God to do these things. Not that he felt god wanted him to do these things. In other words actual communication by god is being claimed by Bush. (If the story is to be believed)

Assuming that the story is true. Do I really think Bush is hearing voices? No. However, either way is scary.

That's 30 million American evangelicals on your watch list right there.

30 million Americans truly believe God is speaking to them?

Scary.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-10-07 09:07pm

Monkey boy wrote:'I'm driven with a mission from God.

I think it was a lot more amusing when Dan Aykroyd said it.

And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq...' And I did.

Did God change his story as much as Shrubby did?

'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state

Good idea. Lets give them Kansas or Alabama.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-07 09:33pm

why do I have this sudden feeling of "I wonder if anyone during the war of the roses felt like this, and saw this comming?"

also will we (the us) be france to china's england?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-10-07 09:36pm

If this is true, my guess is that he was playing to his audience. I doubt he'd say that around Jacques Chirac, for example.

Not that I like it either way.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-07 10:06pm

well he obviously hasn't read dante either.

we know which side statesmen that say such things really are working for.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-10-07 11:51pm

Theists aren't all delusional. The definition is only worthwhile if one takes into account factors such as upbringing. If you were brought up to believe that there was an alien controlling your erections inside your penis, and that an entire alien culture was living around us, it wouldn't be fair to classify you as delusional. However, if you came up with such notions on your own, without a lifetime of indoctrination, then yes, you are a fucking nutcase.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-10-08 12:47am

Holy Ghost of Reagan, Batman. How long until Bush starts mumbling about the End Times?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2005-10-08 03:03am

mr friendly guy wrote:
As far as I am concern, all religious beliefs are delusional if we use delusion in the general sense of the word. This is opposed to say the psychiatric definition of delusion, which makes allowances for religious beliefs. If you seriously believe in God you aren't going to end up in a psych ward. If you seriously believe in that aliens are stalking you are then on just bought a ticket to the hospital.

That depends on who you ask, because there are different schools of thought. Psychological and psychiatric assessments often differ, and when you just look at raw psychology there are different schools of thought again. Many add the clause "unless it's shared by an overwhelming number of people" to their definition of delusion to try and make the definition more religion friendly. Of course this is bullshit as then it suddenly means that suddenly something would stop being a delusion simply because enough people believed it. Psychiatrists probably just let it slide to avoid having to institutionalise a majority of any given population.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2005-10-08 07:52am

Spyder wrote:
That depends on who you ask, because there are different schools of thought. Psychological and psychiatric assessments often differ, and when you just look at raw psychology there are different schools of thought again. Many add the clause "unless it's shared by an overwhelming number of people" to their definition of delusion to try and make the definition more religion friendly. Of course this is bullshit as then it suddenly means that suddenly something would stop being a delusion simply because enough people believed it. Psychiatrists probably just let it slide to avoid having to institutionalise a majority of any given population.

I agree that psychiatrist let it slide because we can't institutionalise that many people. In any event, most of them (religious people) can function adequately in society despite believing in a magic man in the sky punishing us for our sins, so there really isn't much of a need to admit them to a psych ward as compared to someone who thinks people are "out to get them".

And yeah, most psychiatric definitions do have some clause to exclude religious beliefs as a delusion - the one I was taught was that if "beliefs cannot be explained by cultural or social factors". Which brings up a very interesting case, that one can simply "cloak" your delusion in the guise of religion, and one can argue that you are no longer delusional. Take for example L. Ron Hubbard founder of the antipsychiatry cult Scientology was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia with various delusions (before the cult was founded).

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-10-08 11:52am

Huh. I thought Hubbard just made up the whole thing to make money. Didn't know he was really a nutcase.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-10-08 02:44pm

wolveraptor wrote:Theists aren't all delusional. The definition is only worthwhile if one takes into account factors such as upbringing. If you were brought up to believe that there was an alien controlling your erections inside your penis, and that an entire alien culture was living around us, it wouldn't be fair to classify you as delusional. However, if you came up with such notions on your own, without a lifetime of indoctrination, then yes, you are a fucking nutcase.

Um, Bush DID make up his nonsense about receiving revelations from God to start wars in the Middle East. Every OTHER reason he gave was shot down so he's turning to one that CAN'T be proven false. He is either delusional or a liar.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-10-08 08:05pm

As a matter of fact, we ARE on a mission from God.

Anywho: Mahmoud Abbas denies the account of Bush's remark

Abbas denies Bush's 'mission from God' remark
October 8, 2005 - 12:23PM

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

Shaath could not be reached for comment.

The series, Israel and the Arabs: Elusive Peace, will be broadcast in Britain on October 10, 17 and 24, and in its entirety on the US Public Broadcasting Service on Monday.

AP

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-10-09 10:34am

Well, he hasn't quite started planning environmental policy around the Rapture happening soon in any of those statements, so he's not quite to where Reagan was.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-09 10:36am

I thought his whole policy was to cause the "End Times"

Max · Post by **Max** » 2005-10-09 11:51am

Just curious, does anyone know the last real Christian act Bush commited?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2005-10-09 02:27pm

Yeah, he's leading the crusades.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-10-09 02:34pm

mplsjocc wrote:Just curious, does anyone know the last real Christian act Bush commited?

Define "real Christian act".

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-10-09 03:09pm

mplsjocc wrote:Just curious, does anyone know the last real Christian act Bush commited?

Are you defining "Christian act" as "righteous and totally incontrovertibly good act"?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-10 12:34am

Well lets see

as per christ's teachings
personal poverty: nope
respect for those of other religions: nope
pardoning those who are to be executed: nope
Drinking lots of WINE: ding, ding, ding (we have a winner)
Kissing men: nope
going medevil on religious profiteers: nope

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Bush: Me and god are buddies.

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