IoM vs SW Republic on the ground

[SirNitram]

What pray tell is an Ordinitus Golgotha? Is that from one of the novels, i've only read a few. It sounds...positively unmerciful.

If it has Ordinatus in its title, it is a horribly wankish WMD. Ordinatus Gehenna for example, is a massive self-propelled beam cannon with a barrel that Titans can walk in.

Okay, seriously. Does everyone at Games Workshop just have freakishly tiny penises? Is that it? This is ridiculous.

[fgalkin]

More wankish than moon-sized planet destroying battlestations?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Elheru Aran]

What pray tell is an Ordinitus Golgotha? Is that from one of the novels, i've only read a few. It sounds...positively unmerciful.

If it has Ordinatus in its title, it is a horribly wankish WMD. Ordinatus Gehenna for example, is a massive self-propelled beam cannon with a barrel that Titans can walk in.

Okay, seriously. Does everyone at Games Workshop just have freakishly tiny penises? Is that it? This is ridiculous.

Maybe they're small Titans...

[SirNitram]

More wankish than moon-sized planet destroying battlestations?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

At least it doesn't have a giant wang jutting out. It has a nice, subtle slice missing. If it was a nine hundred kilometer wang, it'd be pretty bad.

[Chris OFarrell]

What pray tell is an Ordinitus Golgotha? Is that from one of the novels, i've only read a few. It sounds...positively unmerciful.

Think a titan sized MLRS that fires missiles full of Chemical warfare/Biological warfare love.

IIRC from the fluff one of them single handedly ended an Ork offensive on Armageddon due to the massive casualties from the missiles and their payload.

Of course Clone Troopers have full BioChem protection in their armour.

[Dark Hellion]

40K does biochem slightly differently than most universes. If it can't eat through concrete it isn't considered Biochem.
As for the the actual debate, I would say that it could easily go either way, depending on how quickly either side realizes their respective advantages and disadvantages. Either way, both forces are looking at absurd casualty figures.

[Chris OFarrell]

40K does biochem slightly differently than most universes. If it can't eat through concrete it isn't considered Biochem.

Source? With the exception of Virus Bombs used in planet wide exterminations, I havn't ever got that impression.

[Uraniun235]

More wankish than moon-sized planet destroying battlestations?

Yes. Because the Empire does not make moon-sized planet destroying planet-bound walkers.

[UCBooties]

More wankish than moon-sized planet destroying battlestations?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

At least it doesn't have a giant wang jutting out. It has a nice, subtle slice missing. If it was a nine hundred kilometer wang, it'd be pretty bad.

Ah, but when the Death Stars failed what's next to roll off the super weapon supply line? The Eclipse and the Galaxy Gun. They're both rediculously large, and the second even has to shoot its load to destroy a planet.

But off topic jibes aside, I'd have to give it to the clones. The IOM's guard is good for one thing, turning aside countless hordes and legions of screaming, charging foes in brutal, utterly unforgiving trench warfare. They do it with heavy weapons and by utterly personifyig the term meat shield. Aside from Skirmishes with the Eldar, I don't think they have ever dealt with a foe that is as mobile as the Clones while still having comperable, if not superior firepower. Simply put, as awesome as the IOM's ground fighting is, the clones can move faster and employ more dynamic strategies without sacrificeing firepower. The guard would probably entrench, expecting a long knock down, drag out fight. They would not be prepared for the whirlwind of massed fire and multiple fronts on which the clones could attack them.

[Dark Hellion]

Source? With the exception of Virus Bombs used in planet wide exterminations, I havn't ever got that impression.

I was mostly just joking. NBC should work against their average bio-chems. That said, there are virus weapons designed to penetrate NBC protection (I think they were mentioned in the 1st ed compendium, but I am not quite sure).

As for saying that the Guard wouldn't be expecting it, it depends entirely on the guard unit. Some units are trained to fight drop podding troops, grav shooting troops, elder raiders, or even teleporting attackers. Others are meatshields, some are mechanized platoons, others armoured companies. The shear variety is what makes debating IG hard.

[Archaic`]

I don't think the 3 Ordinatus machines could really be used fairly in this matchup, considering the fact there's literally only one of each, and that they'd be in fairly poor repair in any case, considering they were built for the IoM by the Squats with the knowledge from their semi-intact STD's, knowledge I doubt the IoM still has the full use of.

[Archaic`]

And it would seem I stand corrected. Seems I was remembering the fluff incorrectly. I've just been told by another person here that they're far more common than that, generally scratch built for a specific campaign, then trundled out again whenever a similar situation presents itself, that is important enough to warrent it.

In which case though...I still find it unlikely that the guard would have had one with them when transported by the plot device for this.

[Black Admiral]

Ordinatus is a specific grade of weapons system, ranging from the ground-based units like the Gehenna to the space-based Geryon-class Ordinatus.

[Connor MacLeod]

I think the hydras biggest problem isn't hitting the gunships. Even if IoM FC can be a bit crude when it comes to guard vehicles, those gunships still fly slow enough to be vulnerable to ground fire.

I'm less than confident however that the hydra has the firepower to damage the gunship. Let alone do so through its shields.

-Gunhead

What's the rate of fire/range of the Hydra? What's the velocity of its shells? (I imagine it would be at least comparable to modern AAA)

I'd be more worried about the ability of the Gunships to launch missiles from behind the horizon (I think this ability is mentioned in the AOTC:ICS), while their beam weapons can pretty much hit anything within LOS almost immediately (IIRC frrom the AOTC: ICS again.)

If the IoM has the ability, they should probably rely more on air supporrt to counter the gunship threat.

And there is still the Juggernauts after all (a SPHA-T sized slab of super-dispersive armored trouble rolling towards you at over 150 km/hr, IIRC.) A weapons barrage from a line of Juggernauts would be VERY unpleasant as well (even if the range is shorter.) Since the Juggernauts also carry nuclear-level firepower (ROTS:ICS IIRC)

[Connor MacLeod]

Well if you look at the WEG sourcebook, it has listings of a lot of Clone Wars vintage heavy support equipment. Like the Grandfather Gun for example. Which could level up any kind of arty standoff.

Ouch, a bigass ion cannon with a 25 km "line of sight" range apparently (although it implies low-orbit targeting ability and "indirect fire" capability as well) and a hundred-meter blast radius.

That said, the Clones are not really designed for this kind of mission. They are really supposed to have heavy orbital support to give easy mobility for their forces as well as very heavy fire support through orbital bombardment.

Orbital support is a huge factor, but I think in cases like Geonosis, it wasn't as great a factor (most of the Acclamators were on the ground... there was a naval battle going on.) Its going to deprive them of al ot of precision firepower and a major source of communications and sensor coordination, ,but its not an insurmountable disadvantage (they have remote probes and such fro scouting after all.. and gunships can relay targeting telemetry too.)

Mobility wise, I don't see much of a problem. BIG stuff like the Juggernaut have effective ranges of 30,000 km (and even the AT-TE has like a range in the hundreds or thousands of km.) Gunships should easily have comparable operational ranges as well. With lifters like I mentioned, they can move some of the slower walkers about without much trouble (and the gunships and Juggernauts between them can carry all the troops.)

About the only mobility problem would be the SPHA-Ts (too slow to follow even the AT-TEs and too large to be air-lifted by anything.) But in the configuratiosn I specified that really wouldn't be a major problem, if they're far enough back. (The missile-armed SPHA-Ts would probably have a big-ass range advantage given missile accelerations and endurances, and the laser-equipped SPHA-Ts would be better as anti-air platforms to protect against enemy air support, against enemy vehicles in LOS, and in supporting gunships if they're close enough or high enough above the Horizon.)

Which is generaly why any IOM vs SW scenario heavily favours the Galactic Empire. Because while the SW units are generaly weaker on the ground, they still have more then enough firepower to hold their own, plus they would have space superority and probably air superority, just subjecting the Imperium units to a whirlwind of air and space bombardmenet to kill all the major troop concentrations.

I think that actually the SW side has vehiciles up to the task of handling the IoM side if they don't fight on the Imperium's terms, even with equal vehicle weapons ranges. I think this is where the "missile/projectile" heavy design of Republic military vehicles pays off (given its easier to mount high-yield warheads than high-powered energy weapons). Except where vehicles like the AT-At and Juggernaut are concerned - if the Juggernaut has max firepower anywhere even close to what the AT-AT has, (which the ROTS ICS suggests.) its going to be truly nasty.

[Black Admiral]

What's the rate of fire/range of the Hydra? What's the velocity of its shells? (I imagine it would be at least comparable to modern AAA)

The Hydra's refire rate seems to be comparable or superior to the ZSU-23-4 per gun. Don't know about range or shell velocity though.

[Currald]

It seems to me that if the Guard dug in, the Republic would need superior numbers to dislodge them. 3:1 is a frequently bandied-about ration, IIRC.

[Currald]

According to "Ordinatus" by Gav Thorpe in US White Dwarf 191, the Ordinatus Golgotha's HellFire Missiles contain Hellfire.

Hellfire is a common term for a potent acidic-virus compound developed by the Adeptus Mechanicus. It burns through armour and sears flesh, usually leaving the few who survive hideously scarred and crippled.... A hellfire missile has multiple warheads... In addition, the extensive scanning equipment allows it to fire with unerring accuracy.

The game rules indicate that it has very long range, and can hit targets which are out of line of sight accurately without the aid of artillary spotters, due to its superior scanners. It also has the usual dispersion field common to the Ordinatii of this (2nd edition Space Marine / Titan Legions) period.

This piece of kit is hardly standard equipment, and I doubt that the Centurio Ordinatus would deploy it against such a small force of Clonetroopers. For...

...Ordinatus Golgotha has always been in the forefront of any battle against enemies with a strong numerical advantage.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Thats interesting, i actually never heard of the Ordinitus before...is there some website where these Whiet Dwarf articles are preserved or archived? I'm always looking fro soem 40K info to absorb, i find the universe just fascinating.

[Grasscutter]

Ask and ye shall receive:

++http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/

[18-Till-I-Die]

Ask and ye shall receive:

++http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/

Many thanks, dude.

[PainRack]

It seems to me that if the Guard dug in, the Republic would need superior numbers to dislodge them. 3:1 is a frequently bandied-about ration, IIRC.

Or the Republic simply cuts off the Guard supplies, letting it starve to death while engaging in an artillery duel, a duel that it will eventually win because it has access to fresh supplies and the Guard doesn't.

The Republic Grand Army isn't our army. Its an army that has mobility beyond anything our modern concepts can even dream of.

[weemadando]

Except that doesn't work...

Both forces are planet bound without reinforcements and both have equal mobility surface side. Valkyries and Vultures will give the Guardsmen LAAT equivalents and their fighters are just as scary.

[Elheru Aran]

Ask and ye shall receive:

++http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/

Many thanks, dude.

The only problem with Critical Hit is that most of its stuff is fairly old.

However, IIRC Games Workshop has a similar canon policy to that of Wars-- fluff is canon unless contradicted by newer material. So sure, go ahead, most of this will still be good except for the Squats, some Nid stuff, and so forth...

[SirNitram]

Except that doesn't work...

Both forces are planet bound without reinforcements and both have equal mobility surface side. Valkyries and Vultures will give the Guardsmen LAAT equivalents and their fighters are just as scary.

Except the Guard is not built to fight with mobility. Hell, their tank speeds are fairly sad; Imperial Armour lists the speed of everything but Tank Hunters under 40 klicks per hour. On roads. The Republic is simply better trained and equipped to fight manevuer battles, the Guard too optimized for trenches. Which the Republic won't bother with.