Sci Fi power ranking

[Ghost Rider]

What was the actual wording of Dark Empire? Twelve million worlds or twelve million systems?

Systems.

[Morat]

While of course, hoping those 200,000 ships don't run into any of the Empire's supposedly hundred million capships.

Assuming intelligent leadership, capital ships wouldn't be used to deliver the bombs. It would be cheaper and easier to use fighters and other small craft. You can expect a few of them to be destroyed, but I don't recall the Galactic Empire having major defenses deployed around their stars.

[Ghost Rider]

The films are the minimalists, in all honesty.

True. Very true, i've said that myself. Without the EU and fan creations the Empire wouldnt be half the bad ass it is, just using the films.

The Death Star 2 is minimalist?!

Think about that...the second Death Star...built at maximum within a few years, disregarding every EU, is minimalist?!

I don't have any love of 10 trillions ISD, but minimalist is bullshit wanking of another sort.

[Lord Zentei]

What was the actual wording of Dark Empire? Twelve million worlds or twelve million systems?

Systems.

Then there is no contradiction. 12 million systems with 50 million planets. Of these, one million planets have the right to elect senators and are "full members".

[Vanas]

For above the Empire:

The Krikketers. (Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

Ungodly industrial base (kept a constant battle up against an entire galaxy for 2,000 years). Very fast FTL, capable of co-ordinated strikes against thousands of worlds or getting across the galaxy in moments (almost as fast as the Bistromath, which covered 2/3 of the galaxy in about 30 seconds). Battleships the size of a Midlands industrial town capable of 'knocking a fair chunk' out of planets with their main guns (let alone super-weapons). Universe Ending Device. Army of robots capable of either annihilating infantry, levelling cities or taking out the primary star of a system.

[NecronLord]

If Wank Empire is the one with...oh i think it was a billion star destroyers and about twice as many worlds, which i've been told about, then yeah i agree on that title.

Palpatine destroying continents with his mind.

[NecronLord]

The Death Star 2 is minimalist?!

Think about that...the second Death Star...built at maximum within a few years, disregarding every EU, is minimalist?!

I don't have any love of 10 trillions ISD, but minimalist is bullshit wanking of another sort.

There is no indication (the opening crawl says that the Empire has begun building it. ) in the films of when the DS2 was started. It could even have been started during the construction of the first one. Maybe even at the same time.

RotS novel Spoilers: And RotS canonically establishes that the first one was begun shortly after Luke/Leia's birth.

Let us not forget that the fall of the Second Death star is presented as the total death knell of the New Order, with storm troopers being thrown off the sides of buildings outside the Imperial Palace.

[Ghost Rider]

The Death Star 2 is minimalist?!

Think about that...the second Death Star...built at maximum within a few years, disregarding every EU, is minimalist?!

I don't have any love of 10 trillions ISD, but minimalist is bullshit wanking of another sort.

There is no indication (the opening crawl says that the Empire has begun building it. ) in the films of when the DS2 was started. It could even have been started during the construction of the first one. Maybe even at the same time.

RotS novel Spoilers: And RotS canonically establishes that the first one was begun shortly after Luke/Leia's birth.

Let us not forget that the fall of the Second Death star is presented as the total death knell of the New Order, with storm troopers being thrown off the sides of buildings outside the Imperial Palace.

Ah, so you're saying while building the first car, they fixed all the problems and increased the size of the second car?!

Do you even want to go how fucking stupid that line of logic is?

And before you go into "We don't know when they started!!!", so you have proof of your thing going "They started at the same time!"

[NecronLord]

Ah, so you're saying while building the first car, they fixed all the problems and increased the size of the second car?!

Do you even want to go how fucking stupid that line of logic is?

Down boy. The films do not mention that the DS 2 had the bug fixed. That's novellisations at best.

[RedImperator]

If you're going to try to find some benchmark for making apples-to-apples comparisons between sci-fi universes, I think energy generation capacity would be a good start. Rank them by how much energy they can generate and use to start, and then tweak the scale as necessary.

[Coyote]

Well, here's my take.



Galactic Empire (Star Wars)
Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Scarrans
Peacekeepers
Vorlons & Shadows
Go'auld
Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
Kilrathi
Imperium (Dune universe)
Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Federation/Borg tie (Trek)
Romulans/Minbari tie
Klingons
Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
Earth Alliance (B5)/Earth Alliance from "Firefly" tie
Narn
ID4 Aliens
Terran Federation (SST movie)
The Alien universe
modern Earth
Footfall aliens
Bugs (SST movie)

[Ghost Rider]

Ah, so you're saying while building the first car, they fixed all the problems and increased the size of the second car?!

Do you even want to go how fucking stupid that line of logic is?

Down boy. The films do not mention that the DS 2 had the bug fixed. That's novellisations at best.

Uh...so we're only going to what...at this rate, ignore the ITW?

At this rate...you're clinging to films, and they(RoTS and ANH) only mention in both One DS....somehow not damning evidence to go "They were building the DS2 in the background...unseen........"

[NecronLord]

Uh...so we're only going to what...at this rate, ignore the ITW?

Precisely. When discussing the differences between the films and the products that are based on them (Even products that purport to be behind the scenes) one should generally take what is shown in the film on its own.

At this rate...you're clinging to films, and they(RoTS and ANH) only mention in both One DS....somehow not damning evidence to go "They were building the DS2 in the background...unseen........"

Not clinging to. Asserting that the half rational numbers come from non-film sources. The films present some big death stars, and then they present the rebel alliance consisting of a single base with a few fighters. Big battles consisting of thousands of ships at the absoloute most, and a handfull of ships later on. A thousand seat senate for a galactic republic. ETC ETC ETC.

The only major non-minimalist thing in the Star Wars films is the Death Stars. Otherwise, ship numbers, planet numbers, woeful. Troop numbers, indeterminate - though presented in a way that makes them sound minimal. Etc etc etc.

EU minimalism isn't that bad, to be honest. It's not consistant with what one would expect of a 'galactic empire' but it is consistant with many parts of the films.

And yes, unseen. It was unseen right until Palpy wanted it to be discovered. The DS1 was unseen for twenty years right until it was launched. The Empire is very good at hiding Death Stars from the rebels. Space is big. The rebels are small.

[Glimmervoid]

Lets add the pre-fall 40k elder in I am sick off them being so low. And last we are on the subject how comes everyone else on that big list is from at their height and the elder are not.

[Lord Zentei]

Lets add the pre-fall 40k elder in I am sick off them being so low. And last we are on the subject how comes everyone else on that big list is from at their height and the elder are not.

Even the post-fall Eldar should be higher.

Well, here's my take.



Galactic Empire (Star Wars)
Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Scarrans
Peacekeepers
Vorlons & Shadows
Go'auld
Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
Kilrathi
Imperium (Dune universe)
Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Federation/Borg tie (Trek)
Romulans/Minbari tie
Klingons
Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
Earth Alliance (B5)/Earth Alliance from "Firefly" tie
Narn
ID4 Aliens
Terran Federation (SST movie)
The Alien universe
modern Earth
Footfall aliens
Bugs (SST movie)

Methinks you overrate the Go'auld and the B5 big boys, but otherwise, fine.

[Nephtys]

Methinks you overrate the Go'auld and the B5 big boys, but otherwise, fine.

The Go'auld struck me as a bit incompetent more than anything else. The Kilrathi/TC could probably take them. But what else is there to overrate? The Dune Imperium is feeble. As for the Cylons... Retro Cylons, or Gooey Cylons?

[Ghost Rider]

At this rate...you're clinging to films, and they(RoTS and ANH) only mention in both One DS....somehow not damning evidence to go "They were building the DS2 in the background...unseen........"

Not clinging to. Asserting that the half rational numbers come from non-film sources. The films present some big death stars, and then they present the rebel alliance consisting of a single base with a few fighters. Big battles consisting of thousands of ships at the absoloute most, and a handfull of ships later on. A thousand seat senate for a galactic republic. ETC ETC ETC.

The only major non-minimalist thing in the Star Wars films is the Death Stars. Otherwise, ship numbers, planet numbers, woeful. Troop numbers, indeterminate - though presented in a way that makes them sound minimal. Etc etc etc.

EU minimalism isn't that bad, to be honest. It's not consistant with what one would expect of a 'galactic empire' but it is consistant with many parts of the films.

And yes, unseen. It was unseen right until Palpy wanted it to be discovered. The DS1 was unseen for twenty years right until it was launched. The Empire is very good at hiding Death Stars from the rebels. Space is big. The rebels are small.

And sadly you and I have no proof at all of the DS2 being BUILT at the same time. Do you even understand how damn silly it sounds to go "Oh they were building it, but ummm...we never once see even a HINT of it...unlike the DS1 ...so I'll leap to the conclusion it was built at the same time, even though I have nothing to even purport as proof against anyone else's word."

Right.

And for EU minalism... 200 ships tips the balance doesn't strike at all a bit low? And honestly let's not touch what is what since it's established unless directly contradicted, the EU stands...and this has nothing to do with that. This about you saying since they don't specify the DS2 start time, it must be purported to begin at the same time as the DS 1.

[Grasscutter]

Lets add the pre-fall 40k elder in I am sick off them being so low. And last we are on the subject how comes everyone else on that big list is from at their height and the elder are not.

Even the post-fall Eldar should be higher.

I second that. There aren't a lot of them but they still manage to be a credible military force in the War40k universe. If you combine all the Craftworlds and include the Exodites, which have been known to aid the Craftworlds, they're certainly a match for any single Star Trek power save the Borg. If their ships are a threat to IoM ships, they're going to romp most Trek ships.

[NecronLord]

The construction time of the DS1 - using only film sources - would imply that the construction of the DS2 would have taken a very long time also. As opposed to 'overnight.'

And of course it's low. It's also consistant with the films. ROTS Spoilers: The Republic could only bring a few thousand ships to the big party over Coruscant maximum.

[Ghost Rider]

The construction time of the DS1 - using only film sources - would imply that the construction of the DS2 would have taken a very long time also. As opposed to 'overnight.'

And of course it's low. It's also consistant with the films. ROTS Spoilers: The Republic could only bring a few thousand ships to the big party over Coruscant maximum.

Thus...the Empire can construct something that is 5 times as large...with a time differential of only what at most five years is consistent?!

It doesn't work either way.

If they both started the Empire was building a 120 KM sized Sphere that took twenty years, but in another five, they can get to somthing that is 900Km sized?

Do you even see the sheer idiotic notion of saying that is consistent? The Empire in five years is to compensate for some 500+ KM of sphere in only 5 years?

This gives them the ability within those fives year to construct an upwards of 4 Death Stars with room for Five?!

This is constsitent with a the minimalist thought?

[NecronLord]

Where the fuck did I say it was consistant? Star Wars is inconsistant as hell. Ranging from Obi-wan not knowing R2-D2 through to the plethora of EU inconsistancies.

And where did I say five years? I didn't say 'after the first one was destroyed' I said it is probable, using only film evidence, that the second one was constructed during the construction of the first. It could have been constructed for anything up to twenty five years using film only evidence.

The films are minimalist, ranging from thirty odd rebel capital ships, a few thousand ships available for the defence of Coruscant, the empire just giving up and keeling over after the death of Palpatine.

The second death star is the solitary exception to film minimalism.

Nowhere are the hundred million ships of the Empire even inferred, nor its (obvious) billions or trillions of soldiers, or its vast scale in terms of planets. The EU authors were often justified in writing minimally, Zhan for example, because that is what the audience expects after watching Star Wars.

[Ghost Rider]

Where the fuck did I say it was consistant? Star Wars is inconsistant as hell. Ranging from Obi-wan not knowing R2-D2 through to the plethora of EU inconsistancies.

And where did I say five years? I didn't say 'after the first one was destroyed' I said it is probable, using only film evidence, that the second one was constructed during the construction of the first. It could have been constructed for anything up to twenty five years using film only evidence.

The films are minimalist, ranging from thirty odd rebel capital ships, a few thousand ships available for the defence of Coruscant, the empire just giving up and keeling over after the death of Palpatine.

The second death star is the solitary exception to film minimalism.

Nowhere are the hundred million ships of the Empire even inferred, nor its (obvious) billions or trillions of soldiers, or its vast scale in terms of planets. The EU authors were often justified in writing minimally, Zhan for example, because that is what the audience expects after watching Star Wars.

Never said they are, but the DS 1 and 2 are not nearly on the level of Zahn's want of 200 ships tipping the balance.

And the one million systems comes practically from Lucas mouth itself. He wrote in in Star Wars.

I just would prefer a bit more happy medium then the stark difference we see from author to author. Either the NR is basically the Rebellion with a new paint gloss or it actually has hundreds of ships.

[NecronLord]

Never said they are, but the DS 1 and 2 are not nearly on the level of Zahn's want of 200 ships tipping the balance.

Are you spoiler free or something?

And the one million systems comes practically from Lucas mouth itself. He wrote in in Star Wars.

I agree.

I just would prefer a bit more happy medium then the stark difference we see from author to author. Either the NR is basically the Rebellion with a new paint gloss or it actually has hundreds of ships.

Heh. Enjoy your consistancy. Would you like a side salad with that?

[Ghost Rider]

I just would prefer a bit more happy medium then the stark difference we see from author to author. Either the NR is basically the Rebellion with a new paint gloss or it actually has hundreds of ships.

Heh. Enjoy your consistancy. Would you like a side salad with that?

I want some fucking Chips with that and a dash of horseradish

[NecronLord]

I want some fucking Chips with that and a dash of horseradish

Mmmm.... Chiiips.