What Galaxy/Sci Fi Series Can Compete with the Empire?

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-12-14 04:47am

The Trantorian Empire is a close match in most fields, but unfortunately there is no enough battle description to say who would win. If we go by high end interpretations, Trantor would win very easily, but if we go with the low end interpretations the result is not so clear.

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-12-14 07:11am

consequences wrote:For Ftl speed, 4th Empire hyper drive was only three and a half times faster then Dahak's Enchanach, at 1200C. It is unlikely that the 5th Imp managed to do more than double or triple that, which still leaves them with a speed disadvantage of at least three orders of magnitude.

Heirs of Empire gives Imperial Terra's top speed in hyper as somewhere round 3200C, on IIRC page 86, but quotes'll have to wait until I can get home and look it up.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2004-12-14 09:00am

Symmetry wrote:
FOG3 wrote:Solnoid/Paranoid axis from Gall Force should at least be able to go toe to toe. They build bigger and more powerful superweapons in the forms of the System Destroyers so their Industrial Might could be close enough.
Hmm, the Central Guard bombardment only seemed to produce fireballs that were a few kilometers in diameter per beam. I seem to remmeber about 40 batteries on that ship firing at about one volley per seocnd, so the firepower can't be much more than 200 megatons per second or so. Of course, the Central Guard cruiser wasn't nearly as big as the Akon Kagu'ya let alone those monsters from Stardust War, so Gall Force line ships might be able to stand up to Imperial ships but while the fleets we saw in Stardust War were bigger than those in battle around Endor, the Imperial forces are accepted as being only a tiny fraction of what is available in the Star Wars galaxy. On the other hand, the when we see that big Solenoid fleet, thats all the ships they have.

left after centuries of warfare and a decade of using System and Planet Destroyers including both losing their home planets. Of course, most interpretations I've seen seem to think their both one planet organizations ignoring the existence of the Star Build Project.

I'd also point out those Central Guard Cruisers bombardment was intended to go through the shields set up by the Star Blossom and destroy the generators, and to not kill Boy. The guns did exactly what they were supposed to in a very small amount of time. Why use extreme excess firepower if you run the risk of terminating the whole reason you're in system and what might be able to end the war?

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-14 10:08am

Other than perhaps the Q, name one.

perhaps the Q?

They may not be omnipotent, and they may be annoying as hell, but they'd still win with the snap of their fingers. And besides the Q, some one-hit wonders won't come too far short of that level.

Mopeyennuui · Post by **Mopeyennuui** » 2004-12-14 10:26am

White Haven wrote:Much as I like 4E ships and weapons, remember that hyper missiles operate by re-entering normal space within the target's shields. Achuultani shields already give them fits, with their tighter overall area, imagine how SW shields would interact there, given that they're basically form-fitting. Not that I think SW ships would be invulvenerably, but a good portion of the firepower of a 4E planetoid would be diminished. On the flip side, planetary destruction is /easy/ to even old 4th Imperium planetoids, never mind the newer ones, so the power levels involved are at least something that gets within shouting distance of SWtech. The deciding factor would be how shields interacted, really.

Do SW shields have a dimentional aspect? Do 4E torps phase through normal matter, and how?

It's all a matter of timing the phasing part of the torp differently so it phases inside the SW ship

If so tell the torp to phase through the shields anyways and then phase-in after it should have gotten through the shields, when hopefully you havn't passed through the ship.

If[/] you can sidestep teh eshields, I do't see any problem with phasign insdie normal matter of the opposing ship.

Ther key factor is how do SW shields work and how does this 'phasing' of the torp work.

No saying nobody would think of this, any body even intrested in technical details woudl think of it, perhaps sooner than later.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-14 11:00am

Bellator wrote:
Other than perhaps the Q, name one.
perhaps the Q? They may not be omnipotent, and they may be annoying as hell, but they'd still win with the snap of their fingers. And besides the Q, some one-hit wonders won't come too far short of that level.

We have no data on the Q's limitations, so it is impossible to tell.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-12-14 11:06am

Lord Zentei wrote:
Bellator wrote:
Other than perhaps the Q, name one.
perhaps the Q? They may not be omnipotent, and they may be annoying as hell, but they'd still win with the snap of their fingers. And besides the Q, some one-hit wonders won't come too far short of that level.
We have no data on the Q's limitations, so it is impossible to tell.

Well who know that they are not omnipotent because the suicidal Q from Voyager told us that. ;

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-14 11:06am

The "Hitchhikers Guide" galaxy with their uberwank probability control technology would be a royal pain. They possess the ability to routinely demolish planets, even with non-millitary ships(!), and have planet building capabilities that rich dillitantes make use of (or made use of). In the fifth book of the "trilogy", they demonstrated the ability to "temporal reverse engineer" people and planets out of existance. Small wonder that by that time, the very fabric of the universe was coming unglued at the seams.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-12-14 11:41am

Bellator wrote:
Other than perhaps the Q, name one.
perhaps the Q?

Perhaps you could learn to read questions before answering them?

And besides the Q, some one-hit wonders won't come too far short of that level.

Such as? Oh wait, I know. You're going to take a species which was seen in one episode, assume in the absence of hard evidence that everything not known about them lives up to your wank expectatations, and then challenge us to prove you wrong?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-14 11:57am

Patrick Degan wrote:Doctor Who. The Time Lords have demonstrated planet-destroying capabilities ("Image Of The Fendahl"), the ability to trap entire worlds in impenetrable forcefields ("The War Games"), move entire star systems about the galaxy ("The Trial Of A Time Lord: The Mysterious Planet"), and to lock starships in timeloops ("The Claws Of Axos") simply through the applications of their already-existing time technology. And no, they would not "erase the Empire from existence" but could wreak devestation upon it at distance with virtually no means for the Empire to retaliate. Of course, this would be assuming that they would actively intervene to such a scale against the Empire instead of simply monitoring its activities.

The Sontarans might inflict massive numbers of casualties against Imperial forces initially but would fall before a serious onslaught which would include superweapons such as the Death Star, the World Devestators and the Galaxy Gun.

If we carry on into the Dr Who extended universe, the Daleks could also do it with some effort, in the Dalek Empire era at least.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-14 12:05pm

Even Q might have their limitations. We know there is a process for getting into the continuum, and someone could duplicate it with Fed tech. Also, certain things people assume Q can do, Q has never done. We never see Q wisk away a planet or destroy an entire fleet of starships.

The most "omnipotent" thing we have seen is that Q can go back through time, change the past, and have an effect on the current timeline. That would put Q on the level of the Krenim time ship, or 29th Century Feds. I also remember Q shrinking Voyager to the size of a bee, travelling across the galaxy with the wave of a hand, move an asteroid, etc.

A database of Q feats would be helpful, if one exists.

Brian

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-14 12:07pm

brianeyci wrote: A database of Q feats would be helpful, if one exists.

IIRC Mike's ST database has a Q section.

The Divine Order might be able to annoy the empire, but they don't have the numbers to win.

And, reading back, someone beat me to the Dalek Empire. Damn.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-14 12:23pm

Well Necron I suck. I put in the search term Q, and it brings up a whole lot of articles with the letter Q in them.

Brian

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2004-12-14 12:43pm

I hear that the Lensmen could do it, the Xeelee and the Culture, as already mentioned, the Photino Birds (the Xeelee's long time foes) certainly have the power to do it, but if Ring is anything to go by then by the time their attack actually takes effect the Empire and everyone in it will have been dead a long, long time.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-14 01:06pm

Q was also able to send Voyager to the time before the Universe started- it looked like a void.

The affects of the Q civil war in our dimension caused many massive supernovas throughout a section of space.

Young Q was able to manipulate two warp-capable civilisations into going to war in a few minutes.

That's all I can remember.

And the Futurama-verse could easily destroy the Empire. They describe blowing up stars as 'routine and mundane', and allow random delivery boys to do it.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2004-12-14 01:31pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote: And the Futurama-verse could easily destroy the Empire. They describe blowing up stars as 'routine and mundane', and allow random delivery boys to do it.

Actually that was just planets, not stars.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-14 01:37pm

Legend of the Galactic heroes. They have enough ships,
FTL sensors and communications, Their main cannon have an effective range of 6,000,000 km (I don't know the max range). I'm still looking for links and other stuff to backup this claim, it's not a very well known series, so I was hoping someone else on the boards have heard of it. (c'mon anime viewers thou art needed). Anyhow, without any whatnotuberwank tech, at least it should be a tough fight.

-Gunhead

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-12-14 02:43pm

nasor wrote:There are plenty of Sci-fi civilizations that could take on the Galactic Empire. The Empire of Man from David Webber’s Mutineer’s Moon trilogy could probably stomp the Galactic Empire into the ground without having to try very hard – they had vast fleets of planet-sized war ships and a giant teleporter network that allowed instantaneous travel anywhere in their empire.

The warships from the Dune universe could probably also cause serious trouble for the Empire, although there probably wouldn’t be enough of them to pose a serious threat since I believe in Dune humans only controlled a few dozen planets.

What Dune era are we talking about here? Less than a dozen planets are specifically named in the first book, but the implications are of a multi-galactic society ("known universe") or at least a fully galactic society. In the second book Paul's jihadists destroyed at least that many worlds in a period of a decade or so.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-14 02:47pm

Kurgan wrote:What Dune era are we talking about here? Less than a dozen planets are specifically named in the first book, but the implications are of a multi-galactic society ("known universe") or at least a fully galactic society. In the second book Paul's jihadists destroyed at least that many worlds in a period of a decade or so.

If memory serves, the prequels mention a million or so planets. Of course, the prequels are... less good than the originals, and I don't know how canonical they are.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-14 04:30pm

You're going to take a species which was seen in one episode, assume in the absence of hard evidence that everything not known about them lives up to your wank expectatations, and then challenge us to prove you wrong?

On screen evidence gives us an indication. EU gives further info. Not official canon, but some people have suggested powers from series that don't even have a well established canon policy. So races seen in the series, and then further worked out in the EU, would fit this bill. And yes, you are right that of others on screen evidence is rather minimal (Trelane, Organians, etc).

Well who know that they are not omnipotent because the suicidal Q from Voyager told us that.

They're obviously not omnipotent (and obviously annoying). But they are extremely powerful nonetheless, and would take out any SW or ST power in a direct engagement.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-14 04:44pm

Bellator, how exactly would Q take out the Empire?
Meaning the empire is a pretty big place. One other question. Has the Q ever been fucked over in ST? I mean when people write these godlike beings, they still make very human fuck ups. Oh yes, my knowledge of Q is almost none I'd really like to know?

-Gunhead

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-14 05:01pm

I hate having to defend the Q, since I abhor every single episode they appear in.

- They are not omnipotent
- They are prone to make mistakes
- They have been fucked over by other Q (and subsequently by others when his powers were stripped away)
- In the non canon EU, they've been fucked over by other races
- They aren't too happy to deal with Guinan or Borg for whatever reason

on the other side...

- they can travel around the galaxy nearly instantly
- they can travel in time nearly instantly
- their weapons cause super nova
- they can survive inside singularities or in sheer nothingness
- they can transport people and entire starships to any place and time they chose
- etc, etc, etc

As said, I abhor Q episodes, and unless no one else can post any relating info on them, I won't watch them again for a long time to come.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-14 05:02pm

and coming back to your question. the Q could win by blowing up the stars in the SW galaxy, by transporting their star destroyers into the nearest black hole, and so on. Q can do this. Some hyper advanced other species in other series can do this. Nothing to do with omnipotence (though the Q certainly consider themselves as such).

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2004-12-14 06:01pm

Bellator wrote:- they can travel around the galaxy nearly instantly
- they can travel in time nearly instantly
- their weapons cause super nova
- they can survive inside singularities or in sheer nothingness
- they can transport people and entire starships to any place and time they chose
- etc, etc, etc

And change the laws of the universe.

Q
Change the gravitational constant
of the universe. And thereby
alter the mass of the asteroid...

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-12-14 06:25pm

The Q as a whole I can't stand. Q as a character I find to be enjoyable. Quite an irritating split, really.