The Centauri invade modern-day Earth

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-23 05:55pm

[BL]Phalanx wrote:Actually, I believe the reason for PPGs over slug-throwers is a concern for richocheting rounds when fighting in confined quarters surrounded by metal walls, not for puncturing the hull. IIRC, in one episode there's a concern for richocet from *PPG* bursts because of the particular construction material of the room they were in.

That would be another advantage. PPGs really seem to be designed more for police use than military use.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-04-23 06:06pm

Well there was that episode where they capture all the nightwatch in the area which will make ppg's ricochet. I was thinking more about shooting at windows...but the bullet ricochet thing does make more sense.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-04-23 10:47pm

[BL]Phalanx wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Actually, there is evidence to support the idea that Centauri Hand weapons (some of them anyway) are signifigantly more powerful then Earth equivelents in B5.

When the Strike team on B5 attempted to kill the "new" kosh on B5 they POUNDED him with their PPGs and fried him with an electrical current, all of which hardly seemed to affect him. It took a fragment of original Kosh along with a piece of Lorien to actually take him out.

In sharp contrast stands the situation when Londo becomes Prime Minister and summons Morden, to have him tell the Shadows vessels to leave Centauri Prime. Two Centauri Guardsmen with rapid fire "assault rifles" (whose weapon's fire appeared to be a blue version of a earth PPG shot) entered the room and opened fire on two "cloaked" Shadows. They took EACH took out a Shadow in less then 5 seconds. Since the Shadows and Vorlons are generally considered to be equal in duribility and power, I would say that the incidents indicate that Centauri firearms are signifigantly more powerful then B5 Earth firearms.
Actually, I believe the Technomage Trilogy indicates that a Shadow, when it dies, emits a bright visible light. We didn't observe that effect in "Into the Fire", so they may have just phased out, wounded.

Even if the Shadows were merely wounded, the weapons would still be signifigantly more powerful then Earth Force PPG rifles.

[BL]Phalanx · Post by **[BL]Phalanx** » 2003-04-24 03:00am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: Even if the Shadows were merely wounded, the weapons would still be signifigantly more powerful then Earth Force PPG rifles.

That's assuming that a Shadow's ability to take punishment is equal to what a Vorlon's encounter suit can take. Remember, "roughly equal" doesn't mean "same in all categories". We simply don't know that a Shadow can take as much punishment as a Vorlon can. From the design of their warships, it seems that Shadows favor speed and firepower over durability, whereas the Vorlons favor firepower and durability rather than speed.

I don't have the B5Wars info with me, so I can't be 100% sure, but we know for sure from the show that a Battlecrab is faster than a Whitestar. I'd be willing to bet that the Whitestar, even with her Vorlon technology and as fast as she is, is faster than Vorlon capital ships and yet a Battlecrab many times her size can outrun her.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-04-25 04:34am

Ugh.. PHalanx, wouldnt it have amde more senes to pit Earth/EA PRIOR to contact with the Centauri? IE change the circumstances of the first contact

[BL]Phalanx · Post by **[BL]Phalanx** » 2003-04-25 04:41am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Ugh.. PHalanx, wouldnt it have amde more senes to pit Earth/EA PRIOR to contact with the Centauri? IE change the circumstances of the first contact

Huh? I did pit Earth against the Centauri prior to the "historical" first-contact in the B5-verse.... we're not supposed to meet them until like 2100 or something. I'm pitting modern Earth against the Centauri.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-04-25 04:58am

[BL]Phalanx wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:Ugh.. PHalanx, wouldnt it have amde more senes to pit Earth/EA PRIOR to contact with the Centauri? IE change the circumstances of the first contact
Huh? I did pit Earth against the Centauri prior to the "historical" first-contact in the B5-verse.... we're not supposed to meet them until like 2100 or something. I'm pitting modern Earth against the Centauri.

I know, but as Ted pointed out, there's very little that Earth can do against the Centauri. At least with what little of Pre-cEntauri Earth I remember form the Psi Corps trilogy, they probably would have stood a chance against the Centauri (I beileve they'd bene employing STL technology then.) The technology gap seems to be a bit too big to overcome.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-25 12:01pm

Rye wrote:In future for the into the fire incident, with the small arms fire killing the two shadows, would everyone mind getting it into their heads there's only one shadow there.

Would you please get it into your head that the fucking fact is that the bolts are just stopping in mid air because the grate you say they are hitting is a good 5 meters back?

[BL]Phalanx · Post by **[BL]Phalanx** » 2003-04-25 01:57pm

Connor MacLeod wrote: I know, but as Ted pointed out, there's very little that Earth can do against the Centauri. At least with what little of Pre-cEntauri Earth I remember form the Psi Corps trilogy, they probably would have stood a chance against the Centauri (I beileve they'd bene employing STL technology then.) The technology gap seems to be a bit too big to overcome.

This isn't supposed to be easy, though. It's supposed to be a challenge. Where are all the military folks, though? I figured they'd be all over this one, eager to show their learning in martial matters.

Connor, do you have or know anyone that has material on B5Wars ground forces?

Personally, though, I don't think our forces are facing an impossible situation. It's not like other scenarios where one side cannot hurt the other. Our forces probably pack enough punch to bring down their soldiers and vehicles (KE is always a real bitch). The problem is putting that firepower on target (we know that they can intercept railgun slugs, so its possible they could intercept our missiles, artillery shells, and even the shots fired from our tanks).

But if we can hit them, we can hurt them.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-04-25 03:33pm

Dark Primus wrote:
With the Narns, they were able to fool the Narns because at the time the Narns had no space-faring capability and I doubt they had very advanced astronomy (beyond what they needed to plan agriculture).
I belive they did have FTL drive before they were invaded by the Centauri. For example Ragesh III was a Narn colony before Centauri invaded them according to G'kar in the first episode of the serie.

[/quote]

Maybe the Narns settled Ragesh III after they kicked the Centauri off Narn.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-04-25 04:02pm

Ender wrote:
Rye wrote:In future for the into the fire incident, with the small arms fire killing the two shadows, would everyone mind getting it into their heads there's only one shadow there.
Would you please get it into your head that the fucking fact is that the bolts are just stopping in mid air because the grate you say they are hitting is a good 5 meters back?

It's not. There's a gate behind morden, some hit that, some pass through. thereis clearly NOE shadows, and the bolts ARE NOT hitting mid air.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-04-25 04:04pm

Rye wrote:
It's not. There's a gate behind morden, some hit that, some pass through. there is clearly ONE shadow, and the bolts ARE NOT hitting mid air.

serves me right for not reading my own damn post.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-04-26 05:47am

[BL]Phalanx wrote: This isn't supposed to be easy, though. It's supposed to be a challenge. Where are all the military folks, though? I figured they'd be all over this one, eager to show their learning in martial matters.

My guess would be that they realize how unbalanced it is and see no chance, so dont bother to comment.

Connor, do you have or know anyone that has material on B5Wars ground forces?

I've checked. Nope. My suggestion is to either search the web for the GROPOS books or sites based on them, or ask on whatever message boards for B5 Wars are still running (I'm pretty sure there are some)

Personally, though, I don't think our forces are facing an impossible situation. It's not like other scenarios where one side cannot hurt the other. Our forces probably pack enough punch to bring down their soldiers and vehicles (KE is always a real bitch). The problem is putting that firepower on target (we know that they can intercept railgun slugs, so its possible they could intercept our missiles, artillery shells, and even the shots fired from our tanks).

Not only possible, but likely. Any real way we can hurt them can be nullified to a large extent by one way or another. Theoretically we *might* make a fight of it, because we'd probably have numerical superiority on our side, but we'd accomplish this only in accepting horrific losses, and we *still* wouldn't win. Which still makes this kind of a pointless thread.

This is why I suggested something closer ot the original "contacT" date.

[BL]Phalanx · Post by **[BL]Phalanx** » 2003-04-26 06:03am

Connor MacLeod wrote: My guess would be that they realize how unbalanced it is and see no chance, so dont bother to comment.

Pity, I thought they'd have enjoyed a challenge.

I've checked. Nope. My suggestion is to either search the web for the GROPOS books or sites based on them, or ask on whatever message boards for B5 Wars are still running (I'm pretty sure there are some)

Okay, a search revealed that there once did exist B5Wars GROPOS stuff, and specifically there was a rulebook and stuff for the Centauri.

http://www.wargamesworld.com/agents_of_gaming.htm

But looks like none of the items are being sold anymore.

It also looks like the official site(s) are down... I don't know where B5Wars fans congregate on-line anymore. You know where they meet up now, what message board(s) they use?

Not only possible, but likely. Any real way we can hurt them can be nullified to a large extent by one way or another. Theoretically we *might* make a fight of it, because we'd probably have numerical superiority on our side, but we'd accomplish this only in accepting horrific losses, and we *still* wouldn't win. Which still makes this kind of a pointless thread.

This is why I suggested something closer ot the original "contacT" date.

I don't think it's pointless, anymore than EA's struggle against the Minbari was pointless. Even if you can't win, it's dishonorable to simply hand over your homeworld to invaders.

Putting it closer to the "first contact" date would help, but we don't know anything about EA ground warfare of that time, and I don't think our space forces would've lasted very long.