Legend of Korra "The Voice in the Night"

[SAMAS]

I just had a really odd thought.

What if Amon is really a bender himself? And specifically (given the similarities of their respective stories), what if he was the Firebender who killed Mako's parents? What if he actually felt guilty over what he had done, enough to either blame his bending on his actions (and from there, all bending), or acquired a split personality that did?

[mr friendly guy]

I suspected Amon is really a bender early. It would be interesting if by energy bending he can absorb the power of the Benders he strips of their bending. Thus when Korra goes into the Avatar state he would be a formidable foe. Pure speculation on my part though.

[JME2]

I suspected Amon is really a bender early. It would be interesting if by energy bending he can absorb the power of the Benders he strips of their bending. Thus when Korra goes into the Avatar state he would be a formidable foe. Pure speculation on my part though.

Not a bad idea at all.

[Atia]

Well I don't want to be super pedantic or anything... but I am. He can spirit bend, which is a form of bending so he is technically a bender anyways? Either way I do like that as an idea, it would be a nice little cliff hanger for the season if Korra starts to enter the avatar state and then gets shut down by Amon. Then again that might be just a tad like the end of season two.

[hongi]

Is it worth commenting on that there were women in the Equalist training camp? The Equalists seem to have a broad and diverse support base.

[JME2]

Well I don't want to be super pedantic or anything... but I am. He can spirit bend, which is a form of bending so he is technically a bender anyways? Either way I do like that as an idea, it would be a nice little cliff hanger for the season if Korra starts to enter the avatar state and then gets shut down by Amon. Then again that might be just a tad like the end of season two.

Yeah, it'd be too repetitive.

[Haruko]

Is it worth commenting on that there were women in the Equalist training camp? The Equalists seem to have a broad and diverse support base.

And the rally. I have been gathering that the Avatar society is farther along than us in gender equality.

[Mr Bean]

We've already seen full up trained Ninja Chi-blockers in episode 3 (Not easy to see but obvious in some of the profile shots that Korra fights a female chi-blocker, and Mako a male one). Besides which the first Chi-blocker we met was Ty Lee so having mix gender force makes sense since as an art being nimble and using specifically targeted strikes is not to be sexist a much more useful martial art for women as it does not require building tons of upper body strength or hardening your body to the point you can take prolonged physical abuse. It requires agility and precision targeting, handy as then two chi-blockers fighting each other the fight will go to the one with the better speed I'd think since all the disabling strikes require being close in to be accurate and exact.

[Lord Insanity]

Well here is my idle speculation on the subject. It will be interesting to see if any of this actually plays out.

We know that if an Avatar is killed in the Avatar State the Avatar cycle would be broken and destroyed, but this does not happen if an Avatar is killed while not in the Avatar State. So maybe if Amon Chi bends* Korra's elemental bending away (in the season finale) while she in not in the Avatar State it will not affect the Avatar cycle at all. She might lose all her elemental bending and be forced to learn "the fifth element" chi bending to unlock the Avatar state and get it back.
Possibly she would only be able to use elemental bending while in the Avatar state (with the possibility of destroying the Avatar cycle by being killed) drawing on the powers of the past Avatars until she masters Chi bending enough to restore here natural elemental bending.
It might even go further and it is eventually shown that Amon's chi bend elemental bending away trick is just the tip of the iceberg. Once Korra masters chi bending she can actually restore elemental bending to herself and/or those it was taken from or even grant it to those who never had it. (with the specific element being random to the natural affinity of the persons heritage or something)
Consider this, the three seasons of The Last Airbender were titled Water, Earth, and Fire. The first season of Legend of Korra is titled Air. The second Season being titled Chi (or Spirit or Energy) would make a lot of sense thematically.

*Energy bending and Spirit bending seem rather daft terms to me given that the show call the "ninja's" Chi Blockers.

[Batman]

Bending may not be able to directly affect them but it can still block/deflect them (hence metal/earthbender full body armour, as I mentioned earlier). What you want to take down a bender is ranged weapons they can't react to in time to matter. Once you get past the bending they're just as fragile as ordinary humans.
Which means they may be in serious trouble if the Korra era world has gotten around to moderately useful manportable firearms.

Okay, a) no they aren't as fragile as ordinary humans

As evidenced by-what, exactly? Sure benders can take more punishment with little in the way of ill effects than real world humans could, but so can everybody else in-universe. Avatarverse humans are apparently a lot tougher than real world humans. Yeah, we've never seen that happen before in fiction.

and b) what is with people like you ALWAYS bringing up guns? You're not even constructing a halfway interesting concept with regards to cannons and kung fu (which even Kung Fu Panda managed), you're just saying 'oh my guns so dangerous'. They dodge fucking lightning bolts in this setting.

Lightning bolts moving considerably (I'm inclined to say massively) subsonic. Also notice that at no point have I presupposed that LOK actually has manportable firearms, leave alone ones worth using. All I said was if they have manportable firearms and if they're actually useful in-setting, they'd be a serious thread to benders.
And I wasn't aware I was required to bring up whatever it is you'd consider a 'halfway interesting concept'. The question was 'what can take out a bender', and assuming they have them, a gun can.

[Ford Prefect]

You are an incredibly tiresome little man.

[Batman]

Depending on the source I might actually be 2 metres tall (though I agree the vast majority of available evidence does not). I think the term you're looking for isn't little, it's 'petty'.
And you haven't adressed either of my points.

[Chirios]

I just had a really odd thought.

What if Amon is really a bender himself?

He probably is. We've never seen spiritbending being done by a non-bender, and we have no evidence to suggest that non-benders can even enter the Spirit world. Amon is likely a bender who is taking advantage of the legitimate grievances against the bending elite of the muggles in order to secure his own power.

Just watched this episode (god bless you Nickelodeon for putting it up on your website). Yeah, my suspicions were confirmed, Korra et al su-huuck at fighting. Which isn't bad, I suppose, but if they actually want to stand a prayer of fighting on even terms with Amon who seems to be a male and adult Azula; they're going to need to get a lot better, quickly.

[evilsoup]

We've only ever seen Aang using spiritbending, so I guess that means that Amon must be the Avatar! Or maybe - a Lionturtle!
We don't really have enough evidence about the Spirit World to make any kind of judgement. We've seen Aang enter it, and it is stated that Iroh entered it once. Sokka didn't seem to remember what happened, but then he was kidnapped by an angry nature spirit after being knocked out fighting it.

Maybe Aang got killed in the Avatar state, but Roku was wrong - instead of stopping the reincarnation cycle, it 'just' kicked most of the power out of the Avatar. Which could explain why she seems weak relative to Aang.

[Zor]

A bit off topic from the going conversation, but i really like the vehicle designs in the series like the Satomobile.

Zor

[JME2]

Yeah, it's great Asian steampunk.

[Steve]

Maybe Aang got killed in the Avatar state, but Roku was wrong - instead of stopping the reincarnation cycle, it 'just' kicked most of the power out of the Avatar. Which could explain why she seems weak relative to Aang.

Maybe we should avoid the zebra hunts for explanations when there's a far more simple explanation: maybe Korra "seems" weak relative to Aang is because Aang never had to face legions of Ty Lee-level chi-blockers on a routine basis with no prior training in dealing with them?

And even then... how many times did she fight them? The first time with Mako, when she had no idea what she was facing, fighting the secret school where she took one out and then had Tarrlok help her with the other one, and then the ambush on Aang Memorial Island when Amon, clever bastard that he is, ambushed her with dozens of chi-blockers. Hard, really, to declare that Korra is apparently weaker than Aang was when she's facing an entirely different threat.

Bleh, need to stop trying to post before going to bed...

[avatarxprime]

I just had a really odd thought.

What if Amon is really a bender himself?

He probably is. We've never seen spiritbending being done by a non-bender, and we have no evidence to suggest that non-benders can even enter the Spirit world. Amon is likely a bender who is taking advantage of the legitimate grievances against the bending elite of the muggles in order to secure his own power.

I disagree, I'd wager that Guru Pathik was an energy bender. Maybe he didn't know the full extent of the ability like the Lion Turtle but given how we was able to calm Appa (and apparently read his recent memories or emotions) and help Aang unlock his chakras so quickly it would fit. Hue is also likely an energy bender to some extent and he taught a little bit of that to Aang with the "Everything is connected" moment in the swamp. Since Hue is one of two acknowledged Enlightened individuals in the series (the other being Jeong-Jeong, who was able to directly interact with Roku's spirit), and Pathik being described as a "spiritual master," I'd say anyone can be an energy bender, you just need to be sufficiently spiritually enlightened. I made a post about it back on page 2 of this thread that I think ended up being ignored since it was the last post on that page.

Also, I'd point out Yue as someone touched by the Spirits, and she is a non-bender. I'd imagine that Avatar Kuruk's fiancee was also a non-bender and she was forcibly taken to the Spirit world. Humans should be able to go back and forth to the Spirit world, it's just a difficult thing to do, and it would seem more so since the advent of the Avatar or possibly something happened that necessitated the creation of the Avatar to act as a bridge.

Yeah, it's great Asian steampunk.

Avatar was steampunk, by Korra's time they're petrol heads. It's stated in the little blurb about the Satomobile on Nick's site that they use gasoline now.

Maybe Aang got killed in the Avatar state, but Roku was wrong - instead of stopping the reincarnation cycle, it 'just' kicked most of the power out of the Avatar. Which could explain why she seems weak relative to Aang.

Maybe we should avoid the zebra hunts for explanations when there's a far more simple explanation: maybe Korra "seems" weak relative to Aang is because Aang never had to face legions of Ty Lee-level chi-blockers on a routine basis with no prior training in dealing with them?

And even then... how many times did she fight them? The first time with Mako, when she had no idea what she was facing, fighting the secret school where she took one out and then had Tarrlok help her with the other one, and then the ambush on Aang Memorial Island when Amon, clever bastard that he is, ambushed her with dozens of chi-blockers. Hard, really, to declare that Korra is apparently weaker than Aang was when she's facing an entirely different threat.

Agreed. Also, in Korra's case she was hardly fighting on at her best. Every fight post "The Revelation" has Korra scared that something's going to happen and her bending is going to be taken away. You can clearly see it when that actually Chi-blocker (as opposed to the trainees) gets the drop on her or even more clearly on Aang memorial island.

As an aside, Korra can at least leave the task force with a positive public relations spin, "Amon was too much of a coward to come and face me. I showed up alone, he brought dozens of his men. If he's going to continue such underhanded tactics then I need to be prepared to the best of my ability, so I'm leaving the Task Force and dedicating myself to my training so I can be at my best when next I face him."

[Chirios]

Maybe Aang got killed in the Avatar state, but Roku was wrong - instead of stopping the reincarnation cycle, it 'just' kicked most of the power out of the Avatar. Which could explain why she seems weak relative to Aang.

Nah, it's canon that Aang wasn't killed. Katara's magic water saved him before he died, and then he did a spirit quest in order to reconnect himself to the avatar spirit so that he could use all four elements.

[evilsoup]

I'm pretty sure it's canon that Aang died seeing as, you know, there's a new Avatar now

[Themightytom]

Depending on the source I might actually be 2 metres tall (though I agree the vast majority of available evidence does not). I think the term you're looking for isn't little, it's 'petty'.
And you haven't adressed either of my points.

Nope, my little brother has you on his desk, you're about four inches tall.

[Themightytom]

I'm pretty sure it's canon that Aang died seeing as, you know, there's a new Avatar now

Um he's talking about in the first series, you are talking about in between the two series.


I kind of like the idea though, if Aang was killed in the Avatar state, maybe it's something like Buffy dying and coming back to light, another "Avatar" is created, but, if the individual responsible for killing Aang did so purposefully and influenced whom the second Avatar was, or even just identified them and ensured that specific trauma happened while they were young, that would be interesting because it would suggest that beyond Amon, there is an antagonist with a rediculous amount of insight into the Avatar.

[evilsoup]

I know what he's talking about, and I see where the confusion was coming from, but I guess I need to use more smilies to show when I'm joking.

So I recently rewatched AtLA (showing it to my cousin), and it's a bit of a lol how utterly incompetent most of the fire nation guys are. Probably a deliberate policy of restricting the higher-level stuff to the royal family and nobility and etc. The Dai Li, on the other hand, were consistently a threat to Aang et al... if we compare his fights against them with Korra's fights against the chi-blockers, they seem much closer in skill.

I still get the impression that Korra is a less skilled fighter than Aang was at the end of his series... but then, he had been constantly fighting in desperate situations for a year. Also, since spirits and so on are involved, I think it's likely that he was able to master all the elements plus spiritbending so easily because the Avatar spirit was rising to the occasion. That's also my headcanon for why Katara could master waterbending in a few weeks or Sokka could become a skilled swordfighter in about two days of training - the Avatar spirit was driving them to become better than they otherwise ever would have been.

(Toph is a slight exception to this, since she was already a very good earthbender, but eh maybe this gave her a boost to help discover metalbending.)

Since Korra is living in a time of peace and prosperity, she hasn't had the need to be as powerful as Aang. But I'm sure the spirits will help her rise to the challenge. As well as her own latent skill.

[Grumman]

Also, since spirits and so on are involved, I think it's likely that he was able to master all the elements plus spiritbending so easily because the Avatar spirit was rising to the occasion. That's also my headcanon for why Katara could master waterbending in a few weeks or Sokka could become a skilled swordfighter in about two days of training - the Avatar spirit was driving them to become better than they otherwise ever would have been.

(Toph is a slight exception to this, since she was already a very good earthbender, but eh maybe this gave her a boost to help discover metalbending.)

I really don't like your headcanon, and I doubt you will either if you give it some more thought. Instead of giving the characters credit for their own achievements, you're saying it was all the Avatar. It's like when a doctor saves someone's life and Christians start praising God for the amazing miracle.

[evilsoup]

Well the thing is, I really can't find a way for Sokka to become so good with his sword after one weekend of training. Or for Katara to be able to fight Pakku for a good minute, and then master waterbending after a few weeks of training.

And this has the advantage of giving Iroh's talk of 'destiny' at the end of the series some basis in fact (he's been to the spirit world, maybe he knows these things) rather than be a horribly irresponsible act that leaves the Earth Kingdom undefended.

The Avatar spirit gives Aang the ability to bend all four elements, I don't see why it couldn't help those around him.